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Tips for moving to faster foil

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Created by gregwho A week ago, 13 Oct 2021
gregwho
NSW, 83 posts
13 Oct 2021 9:46AM
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I've been using a Slingshot 99 (width not area) for some time and it's too easy. Now time to get my big boy pants on start to use something with more performance and speed.

I've tried using a Slingshot 76 and also an AFS F-series (F-1080 I think) and in both cases I get up on the foil, then not long after the board drops onto the water. The foil isn't breaching so I'm guessing that I'm stalling it. I've tried holding on more power in the sail, but I haven't cracked it yet.

Can any of you gurus please give me some tips on how to keep a faster foil flying? Yes, I am levelling the board/foil once it's working, but that and holding more power doesn't seem to solve the problem.

Very few windsurf foilers around here, so no brains trust to ask but we did have 10 or more wingdingers in the river on Sunday.

jusavina
QLD, 1396 posts
13 Oct 2021 9:36AM
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Try with the boom a lot higher and a the sail a touch flater.

Also maybe more stab angle if you can change it.

aeroegnr
317 posts
13 Oct 2021 8:35AM
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It's hard to tell what's going on without a video.

You may be pointing too far upwind.

You can try moving the mast track back.

You can try kicking hard downward with the back foot to get more elevation. And pumping some after that.

You can try to move your rear foot further backward to get more lift.

What is your switch fuse setting? I use the 76 in the B position and 99 in the C. The 76 is a good foil, but you may need to move your rear foot backward and steer more in a reach or even a little downwind to hold more speed/power. Be aware of your angle to the wind.

When I ride the 76 I'm using my Blast, which is okay for foiling but my foot needs to be pretty far back in marginal conditions to keep power in the foil without burning my legs. Your footstraps may also be too far forward?

azymuth
WA, 1436 posts
13 Oct 2021 8:36AM
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gregwho said..
I've been using a Slingshot 99 (width not area) for some time and it's too easy. Now time to get my big boy pants on start to use something with more performance and speed.

I've tried using a Slingshot 76 and also an AFS F-series (F-1080 I think) and in both cases I get up on the foil, then not long after the board drops onto the water. The foil isn't breaching so I'm guessing that I'm stalling it. I've tried holding on more power in the sail, but I haven't cracked it yet.

Can any of you gurus please give me some tips on how to keep a faster foil flying? Yes, I am levelling the board/foil once it's working, but that and holding more power doesn't seem to solve the problem.

Very few windsurf foilers around here, so no brains trust to ask but we did have 10 or more wingdingers in the river on Sunday.


Can you describe the conditions and sail size you used with the Infinity 76?

gregwho
NSW, 83 posts
13 Oct 2021 12:12PM
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Thanks for the tips so far:

BTW I weigh 100 kg and am on a Fanatic Falcon Light Wind 159 litres
I'm using the most rearward position of the front strap. I sail with my back foot in the centre of the board or more outboard if trying to push upwind.

Try with the boom a lot higher and a the sail a touch flatter. - Will do
Also maybe more stab angle if you can change it. - Slingshot don't use shims. I might try one with the AFS

You may be pointing too far upwind. - Yes, that's possible. I'll try turning downwind for more power.

You can try moving the mast track back. - I already have it in the most rearward position.

You can try kicking hard downward with the back foot to get more elevation. And pumping some after that. - I have plenty of elevation but the board drops pretty quickly onto the water, so I'm thinking foil is stalling. Kicking the back of the board down will increase foil angle of attack so it's more likely to slow up and stall .

You can try to move your rear foot further backward to get more lift. - Possibly. I've been moving rear foot around to test and it's generally over the rear foil bolt so not much room left to move rearward.

What is your switch fuse setting? I use the 76 in the B position and 99 in the C. The 76 is a good foil, but you may need to move your rear foot backward and steer more in a reach or even a little downwind to hold more speed/power. Be aware of your angle to the wind.
-- I use both the 99 & 76 in C position on the fuselage. I'm not keen to try B as moving the foil rearward would move my back foot rearward and there's not much board left.

Your footstraps may also be too far forward? - The front strap is in the most rearward position.

Can you describe the conditions and sail size you used with the Infinity 76? - I sail with Severne foil glide 6 M , 7 M & 8 M. Am most comfortable on the 7 M and generally only use the 6 M if there are plenty of whitecaps, so 17 knots +. So far I haven't tried the SS 76 or AFS unless there's at least 15 knots.

Thanks again for all the tips. Plenty to think about.

The SS Infinity 99 is nearly too easy to foil on. It requires so little power that part of my problem could be that unless I have a small sail up, I've gotten used to holding it fairly sheeted out. Maybe using a bigger sail and pulling on more power will stop the drops.

Sandman1221
984 posts
13 Oct 2021 9:20AM
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I have experience with the AFS W95 foil and F1080 wing, it is very sensitive to the stabilizer angle, no shim and hard to get up and stay up, one AFS shim and it is perfect for a slalom board, two shims and the tail drags. But with a wider tailed board two shims should be good for light wind. See my post on pumping the foil in-flight, that is on the AFS W95 with F1080 wing and one stab. shim.

You need to find out what AFS wing you were using. The F1080 is a great light wind wing, and for me (86kg) it generates too much lift in over 15 knots and it makes it easy for a gust to cause the foil to breach, that is when I switch to the F770 wing again with one stab. shim.

The other thing to pay attention to is your lean angle, when trying to get up it is easy to lean backwards (especially on a wide tailed board), but if you are still leaning backwards after getting into the air, you will drop right back down to the water. Have to have a more upright stance once up in the air to keep the board/foil level.

aeroegnr
317 posts
13 Oct 2021 9:32AM
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Hmm the Falcon Lightwind seems like a really good foiling board, honestly.

I'm betting that getting the boom higher, as well as pointing more off wind will help you out quite a bit. It's easy to accidentally steer the foil upwind and then depower yourself from the drag.

BTW kicking down on the rear will add power to the foil. I do it all the time when I'm skimming the surface to get completely out of the water. It's a more extreme form of pumping. When it's marginal it keeps me flying.

Especially in the C switchfuse position, you should have plenty of lift. I had a hard time controlling the 76 in the C position myself. Most of my time is IQ race foils now but I'm not sure about the tuttle location vs. my blast on your board. All I know is that the lightwind width is going to help a lot when foiling in light wind as you seem to be doing.

Awalkspoiled
178 posts
13 Oct 2021 10:09AM
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Two things occur to me, depending exactly how the board is coming down:

If the board is coming down almost right away and basically flat, with a SLAP sound, then you may be getting up on foil by committing weight to the tail of the board too early for flight. The angle of attack of the front wing shoots the board out of the water but it's not really going fast enough to stay up without pumping the foil itself, which is an advanced technique. If that's how it's happening, try keeping the board DOWN on the water a little longer, still pumping but putting energy into forward acceleration until the board is pretty much planing, then one more hard pump and ask the board to come up, then a couple more pumps.

If the board is rising and then rounding up and diving in with the windward rail first, especially on the i76, then you may be too far out on the rail. The Falcon LW is really wide, which will be great for the AFS eventually, but the i76 likes to be ridden from closer to the centerline. You can't easily start out in the footstraps as you would with a narrower SS board. Try keeping your front foot with the heel touching the footstrap and the back foot pretty much on the centerline and stay a little off the wind until you're near full speed, before hardening up.

Paducah
1487 posts
13 Oct 2021 10:48AM
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Sandman1221 said..
You need to find out what AFS wing you were using. The F1080 is a great light wind wing, and for me (86kg) it generates too much lift in over 15 knots and it makes it easy for a gust to cause the foil to breach, that is when I switch to the F770 wing again with one stab. shim. ...


I've sailed the F800/1080 in 25+. It's a fun wing in those conditions. I don't even get it out if it's much below 14ish. 63kg, fwiw.

To OP, lots of good tips here. the 99 likes to fly slow and will just mush in if it does stall while the smaller wings (the 1080 is less than half the area) won't. They'll just drop like a stone at your size. Speed will be your friend which will feel a bit strange after the 99.

I applaud your efforts to expand your skill set.

LeeD
3215 posts
13 Oct 2021 10:49AM
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Thank you, excellent diagnosis!

thedoor
1165 posts
13 Oct 2021 10:57AM
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aeroegnr said..
Hmm the Falcon Lightwind seems like a really good foiling board, honestly.

I'm betting that getting the boom higher, as well as pointing more off wind will help you out quite a bit. It's easy to accidentally steer the foil upwind and then depower yourself from the drag.

BTW kicking down on the rear will add power to the foil. I do it all the time when I'm skimming the surface to get completely out of the water. It's a more extreme form of pumping. When it's marginal it keeps me flying.

Especially in the C switchfuse position, you should have plenty of lift. I had a hard time controlling the 76 in the C position myself. Most of my time is IQ race foils now but I'm not sure about the tuttle location vs. my blast on your board. All I know is that the lightwind width is going to help a lot when foiling in light wind as you seem to be doing.


Agree 76 in C position is an uncontrollable animal

Sandman1221
984 posts
13 Oct 2021 11:01AM
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Paducah said..

Sandman1221 said..
You need to find out what AFS wing you were using. The F1080 is a great light wind wing, and for me (86kg) it generates too much lift in over 15 knots and it makes it easy for a gust to cause the foil to breach, that is when I switch to the F770 wing again with one stab. shim. ...



I've sailed the F800/1080 in 25+. It's a fun wing in those conditions. I don't even get it out if it's much below 14ish. 63kg, fwiw.


That is interesting Paducah, for me the F770 is so much faster than the F1080 that I will get on the F770 as soon as I can, as long as the wind lulls are above 12 knots. At lower wind speeds the F770 does not have as much glide, as compared to the F1080, through the lulls.

marc5
72 posts
13 Oct 2021 11:58AM
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I have experience with the i76, i84, and i99. The 76 is a different animal because it has a neck on it, moving the center of lift further forward. This can be good or bad, depending on your level of experience. It took me quite a lot of time on the water to harness the power. I abandoned the 76 for a while, went to the 84 and 99, and now I am a devotee of the 76. It's a lot easier to jibe than its larger brothers.

One thing I did which really improved its performance for me was shimming the stabilizer. I know Slingshot doesn't encourage this, but I spent a couple of weeks in the Gorge this summer and talked to several very good sailors who shim the stabilizer for the 76. Doing this reduces the negative angle of attack (which on my foil was a very steep -3.5 degrees). This will reduce the lift and drag of the foil, calming it and increasing speed. It's simple: just place a plastic tag from a bread bag around the front bolt of the stab (no need to drill the tag because it already has a hole), sandwiched between the fuse and stab. I measured an angle of -2.5 after I made this adjustment. Give it a try.

Grantmac
1058 posts
13 Oct 2021 2:18PM
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+1 for running the I76 in C and shimming the stab, that works very well in my experience.

Sandman1221
984 posts
13 Oct 2021 10:39PM
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The other thing to keep in mind is maintenance, durability, and assembly of the foil. The AFS W95 foil has been maintenance free other than lubing the 3 wing screws occasionally, and have hit manatees, sandbars, buoy lines, and more with no damage to the foil or wings. Use teflon tape on the 2 stabilizer screw threads because I never take stabilizer apart, and leave foil assembled (can get into car with folding rear seats no problem by dropping front wing between passenger door frame and car body with mast going in first). So during the light wind part of the year I never have to do any assembly of the foil (use F1080 wing), just mount foil on the board!

segler
WA, 946 posts
14 Oct 2021 12:23AM
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I think it's a balance issue.

The Fanatic Falcon 159 light wind probably has the finbox way back there compared to modern purpose-built foilboards. Just look at it. If the finbox screws are BEHIND the aft end of the footstrap screws, this will be the case. Modern foilboards have the front fin screw at about the mid point of the back foostraps.

Those big Slingshot snow shovel wings have a very broad center of lift, and so they work just fine with a far aft finbox. I have a i76 in the B position that works just fine with a far aft finbox.

With your AFS the wing is too far aft for balance between your feet. My first foil was an AFS-2 F700 that I mounted on a formula board with a too-far-aft finbox. I could not get it to lift unless I practically stepped off the back of the board. Moving the finbox 3 inches forward solved that problem.

Measure your wing position relative to your footstraps. The wing should be somewhere at or near the midpoint.

Sandman1221
984 posts
14 Oct 2021 5:26AM
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On my Goya Bolt 135 the center of the mast base is 42-7/8" from the center of the front DT box screw hole, that makes the board balanced with the AFS W95 foil and F1080 and F770 wings. The DT box front screw hole is even with the rear foot strap at the 2nd from front hole in the aft 4 hole set.



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"Tips for moving to faster foil" started by gregwho