Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Why don't foil board brands....?

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Created by RuddeBos 2 months ago, 23 Feb 2021
RuddeBos
64 posts
23 Feb 2021 8:15PM
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why don't foil board brands provide more relevant information about their foil boards?
Foil board design is now perhaps into 3 generations of design development.
Foiling folk kind of know what style of foil suits them, and the characteristics of that foil

so why do foil boards only come with the usual length x width x overall volume, and perhaps thickness or 1 foot off width. Followed by recommendation of sail sizes..??

how about published data on :
mast track track position to foil box front bolt;
foil box position to tail;
Max to min footstrap position to foil box;
Tail Volume %.
so that the knowledgable customer can make an informed decision, and rather just taking a manufacturers advice, you can work it out for yourself.

Otherwise its a bit of a expensive gamble trying to mix and match foil kit.

I'm fed up trying to get relevant information about boards, and their suitability for use with different types of foils, by trawling the internet.

Worse are the misleading and vague videos put out by the manufacturers, of a guy foiling in the sunshine..which tells you absolutely nothing about the potential spend of 2 K
Apart from the French resources, there is is very little data, or up to date reviews in the on line mags.
The windsurfing magazines were there to provide relevant up to date information about equipment, so what happened?

simonp123
86 posts
23 Feb 2021 9:45PM
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RuddeBos said..
why don't foil board brands provide more relevant information about their foil boards?
Foil board design is now perhaps into 3 generations of design development.
Foiling folk kind of know what style of foil suits them, and the characteristics of that foil

so why do foil boards only come with the usual length x width x overall volume, and perhaps thickness or 1 foot off width. Followed by recommendation of sail sizes..??

how about published data on :
mast track track position to foil box front bolt;
foil box position to tail;
Max to min footstrap position to foil box;
Tail Volume %.
so that the knowledgable customer can make an informed decision, and rather just taking a manufacturers advice, you can work it out for yourself.

Otherwise its a bit of a expensive gamble trying to mix and match foil kit.

I'm fed up trying to get relevant information about boards, and their suitability for use with different types of foils, by trawling the internet.

Worse are the misleading and vague videos put out by the manufacturers, of a guy foiling in the sunshine..which tells you absolutely nothing about the potential spend of 2 K
Apart from the French resources, there is is very little data, or up to date reviews in the on line mags.
The windsurfing magazines were there to provide relevant up to date information about equipment, so what happened?


Yes, I totally agree! When I got my Fanatic Sky Wing 5'4 board I didn't realise that the foil tracks and foot strap positions were more suited to windfoil type foils (i.e. a larger gap between the front wing and foil mast). I also discovered that my favoured stance width wasn't possible because of the large gap between the front and rear strap inserts.

Then when I was thinking about buying a Takoon board they wouldn't give me the measurements you mentioned because 'it would give away competitive advantage' I had to measure pixels on a photo and work it out for myself!

lwalker
40 posts
23 Feb 2021 10:24PM
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simonp123 said..



Then when I was thinking about buying a Takoon board they wouldn't give me the measurements you mentioned because 'it would give away competitive advantage' I had to measure pixels on a photo and work it out for myself!


That alone is enough for me to avoid their brand completely.

jusavina
QLD, 1363 posts
24 Feb 2021 10:13AM
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lwalker said..


simonp123 said..



Then when I was thinking about buying a Takoon board they wouldn't give me the measurements you mentioned because 'it would give away competitive advantage' I had to measure pixels on a photo and work it out for myself!




That alone is enough for me to avoid their brand completely.



You buy one and sell the "secret" data to other competitors

stehsegler
WA, 3214 posts
24 Feb 2021 11:09AM
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RuddeBos said..
so why do foil boards only come with the usual length x width x overall volume, and perhaps thickness or 1 foot off width. Followed by recommendation of sail sizes..??


Because it's irrelevant... sort of. If you look at free foiling (let's leave race foiling aside for a moment) a lot of the board setup depends on the riders ability / stage in the windfoil learning progress, body weight and height, preferred sailing location (flat water / open ocean) etc

The vast majority of brands don't have a dedicated windfreefoil team rider that could help with development. It appears it's generally the race segment team riders that provide input. I am suspecting the windfreefoil segment is still relatively small. I would suspect most brands don't sell more than a couple of hundred boards in this segment at the moment.

Given the rider factor and the relatively small market segment it makes little sense for brands to go into too much detail... it's not like there is a great deal of choice and most people don't really understand the technical details yet anyway.

As to your question what foil works best with what board... brands would answer that question with "our foil works best with our boards."

I suspect in the long run we might also see some brands doing semi custom boards along the lines of what Haydenshapes does in surfing and as I understand SMIK in supping. A brand has a standard shape but can adapt it to suit a customers body weight and height and sailing preference. The board is then made to order.

Nikita
QLD, 93 posts
24 Feb 2021 6:41PM
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I agree with stehsegler - it's irrelevant. Like stehsegler pointed out the biggest factors are:
- ability
- weight
- sailing location/sailing style

I think that if you're at the stage where you know exactly what kind of foil you're after (ie. you've tried a couple of different wing sizes/styles), then you should be able to match a board to it.
If you're a beginner, and you don't have someone experienced to help, then buy a matched board/foil from the same brand.

That has been my experience anyway. When I started out, I bought a board and foil from the same brand and it worked great. Once I could ride that setup confidently, I experimented with various foil/board combos from Naish, Slingshot, Fanatic, and Severne. They all worked fine.

Having said that, I'm lucky in a sense that my local shops stock most of the major windsurfing brands. They can provide great advice as to what combos work well together. I can also go in and have a look at the actual products. I can see how if you don't have a local shop, it'd be harder to make a choice. Having said that, I don't think that knowing a few extra dimensions would help noticeably.

swoosh
QLD, 1832 posts
24 Feb 2021 7:43PM
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Isn't this a pretty broad problem with all windsurfing gear in general? Plenty of marketing but usually very little real substance.

It honestly feels like pot luck, but luckily most gear these days is pretty good.

stehsegler
WA, 3214 posts
24 Feb 2021 8:43PM
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swoosh said..
Isn't this a pretty broad problem with all windsurfing gear in general? Plenty of marketing but usually very little real substance.


Don't know about race gear as I have zero experience in that but in terms of wave boards you can get quite a bit of additional information by posting in the forums on the respective brands or email them directly. In the past I have even managed to get information from Josh Angulo about an older used board I was toying with buying. Still if you can test it even better.

If you live in Europe you can always fly down to Tenerife for a few days. There are a couple of really good test centres with a large amount of stock from different brands. Great opportunity to try different gear before dropping $3,000+ on a board.
On a lighter note you should know that essentially if you buy the latest it will always be lighter, faster, stronger, better then last years gear ;-)

John340
QLD, 2262 posts
Tuesday , 4 May 2021 3:58PM
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Isn't this why we have informed shop owners. I got great advice from my local shop owner when I purchased my first freeride foil and sail.

utcminusfour
221 posts
Tuesday , 4 May 2021 9:55PM
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My informed local shop owners are in other states. Thank God for the internet!



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"Why don't foil board brands....?" started by RuddeBos