Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Wizard 2021

Reply
Created by Martiin Two weeks ago, 9 Sep 2020
Martiin
17 posts
9 Sep 2020 5:26PM
Thumbs Up

Interesting to hear what the advantages of going so narrow with the 2021 gear.

I have the 105 and feel like any narrower would compromise control especially when the wind is very light and I use 6.5

Feel like this makes the board less versatile.

2keen
WA, 119 posts
9 Sep 2020 7:19PM
Thumbs Up

Don't know about the other sizes but the 76cm width of the 105 is in front of the front straps
Think all they have done with the 114 is make the rails more parallel. I think the width at the straps (particularly the rear strap) is going to be similarDon't think you (Or I ) will lose any versatilitySimon

swoosh
QLD, 1740 posts
9 Sep 2020 9:25PM
Thumbs Up

For the size sails most people use on these its probably better? And it might make them a little better as a wingding crossover board.

thedoor
522 posts
9 Sep 2020 11:39PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for this photo. The new wizards must be very thick for that 114 to be about the same length as the 105.

One thing i noticed when i switched from the wizard 105 to the Freestyle 115 was the benefit of more parallel rails for pumping. Parallel rails allow more aggressive pumping. When I first switched to the freestyle I found I had to adjust my pumping style as the freestyle would rotate to port and starboard significantly as I pumped, which the wizard did not do. I think this was due to the more compact geometry but also the lack of parallel rails. At the time I thought I would like a board with the freestyle front end and a wizard rear.

The original wizards are great boards, but I do think they can be improved upon. I think everyone will love the tracks, the closer distance between straps and mast track and the centre strap option. I anticipate that people will breach less, be willing to carry more sail, use both straps consistently, and carve more aggressively. I know some people are doing this on their current wizards but most are not

Will the 105 be better at getting going in light wind, than the new 114, because it is wider? not sure, the added volume of the new 114 will help and the width in the tail is pretty similar.

Windbot
202 posts
9 Sep 2020 11:53PM
Thumbs Up

Strange indeed that they went narrower. I own a 2018 Wizard 125L and I often wish it was another one or two inches wider, then again 90% of the time I'm sailing it with my 7.3 sail. I have wingdinged it a couple times and width has not been an issue.
EDIT: upon closer look the newer 125's rails don't curve inwards at the tail (where width is most needed), this makes sense to me. I suspect the width feels similar when foiling, but that the straight rails help when not on foil

Martiin
17 posts
10 Sep 2020 5:48AM
Thumbs Up

Interesting comments thanks, some ideas there that make sense particularly the straighter rails. I'm looking forward to seeing slingshots promo material and hearing what their design philosophy was because it's quite a significant change IMO.

Hopefully I can get to try one to compare with my 105.

If anyone gets to try one give us your review!

AlexF
313 posts
10 Sep 2020 2:54PM
Thumbs Up

The 114 looks interesting for a Wind/Wing comboboard.
Does it have a kicktail or steps on the bottom?

thedoor
522 posts
10 Sep 2020 11:18PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
AlexF said..
The 114 looks interesting for a Wind/Wing comboboard.
Does it have a kicktail or steps on the bottom?


No kicktail I believe but it does have cutouts

This is the 90 i believe




www.instagram.com/p/CEzQuMDjUX3/

More pics in this thread

secure.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Waves--video-?page=1


dejavu
245 posts
11 Sep 2020 12:50AM
Thumbs Up

The foil on the Wizard -- the new Phantasm?

boardsurfr
WA, 1110 posts
11 Sep 2020 1:29AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
thedoor said..
No kicktail I believe but it does have cutouts



Can someone explain the design rational for cutouts in small freeride foil boards to me? I understand the idea behind kicktails for SUP-like boards: the board "fits" better into a wave, which gets it going faster, and allows for more rocking motion when pumping the board.

I also understand that cutouts may make sense in race foil boards, where the board is large, and the relatively small foil wings require that the board is pumped up to planing speed for take off. But with a larger freeride foil, you usually take off way before reaching planing speed. So reducing friction on the underside of the board with cutouts makes little sense.

Looking at "multi use" boards which are oriented towards wing foiling, they all seem to have kick tails. Some, like the JP foil SUP, have a sharp (90 degree) angle like a cutout where the kick tail starts, and a cutout-like step. But others, including boards from Armstrong, Naish, and Quatro, just have a small change in angle, without a "step". They seem to work perfectly fine, and are certainly easier to build, without extra sharp corners that sometimes are created using lots of filler.

WhiteofHeart
430 posts
11 Sep 2020 1:41AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
boardsurfr said..

thedoor said..
No kicktail I believe but it does have cutouts




Can someone explain the design rational for cutouts in small freeride foil boards to me? I understand the idea behind kicktails for SUP-like boards: the board "fits" better into a wave, which gets it going faster, and allows for more rocking motion when pumping the board.

I also understand that cutouts may make sense in race foil boards, where the board is large, and the relatively small foil wings require that the board is pumped up to planing speed for take off. But with a larger freeride foil, you usually take off way before reaching planing speed. So reducing friction on the underside of the board with cutouts makes little sense.

Looking at "multi use" boards which are oriented towards wing foiling, they all seem to have kick tails. Some, like the JP foil SUP, have a sharp (90 degree) angle like a cutout where the kick tail starts, and a cutout-like step. But others, including boards from Armstrong, Naish, and Quatro, just have a small change in angle, without a "step". They seem to work perfectly fine, and are certainly easier to build, without extra sharp corners that sometimes are created using lots of filler.


Its also less resistance on a touchdown, so more forgiving.

CYVRWoody
117 posts
11 Sep 2020 2:39AM
Thumbs Up

Narrow according to JP: jp-australia.com/p/windsurfing/boards/freefoil/
"Being narrow enough, they allow easy foot movement for gybes as well as transition from rail to rail."

Cutout IMHO: Also allows the tail to go deeper for a foil pump?

CoreAS
255 posts
11 Sep 2020 3:39AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
dejavu said..
The foil on the Wizard -- the new Phantasm?


from my sources...The first phantasm foil coming out (very soon) will be the kite version, followed by phantasm foil for winging.
The windfoiling phantasm is still being tweaked.

dejavu
245 posts
11 Sep 2020 5:10AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
CoreAS said..


dejavu said..
The foil on the Wizard -- the new Phantasm?




from my sources...The first phantasm foil coming out (very soon) will be the kite version, followed by phantasm foil for winging.
The windfoiling phantasm is still being tweaked.



The foil wing in the picture looks very much like a Moses 633 on a 90+ cm. carbon mast. The mast base of the foil looks like it takes up the entire board's mast track!

As far as the new Wizards are concerned I think Slingshot should have extended the pad to at least half way up the deck's mast track and added foot strap insets at least 15 cm. further forward and, if necessary, added the option of using the mast track as the tie down for the back of the front foot straps (the rear of both front foot straps, one on top of the other locked down in the track) -- it would have made the board much more versatile, especially for winging.

CoreAS
255 posts
11 Sep 2020 5:49AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
dejavu said..

CoreAS said..



dejavu said..
The foil on the Wizard -- the new Phantasm?





from my sources...The first phantasm foil coming out (very soon) will be the kite version, followed by phantasm foil for winging.
The windfoiling phantasm is still being tweaked.




The foil wing in the picture looks very much like a Moses 633 on a 90+ cm. carbon mast. The mast base of the foil looks like it takes up the entire board's mast track!

As far as the new Wizards are concerned I think Slingshot should have extended the pad to at least half way up the deck's mast track and added foot strap insets at least 15 cm. further forward and, if necessary, added the option of using the mast track as the tie down for the back of the front foot straps (the rear of both front foot straps, one on top of the other locked down in the track) -- it would have made the board much more versatile, especially for winging.


Slingshot will be adding 3 wing foil boards later this year (around Dec) so they probably didn't want to tweak the Wizards too much although saying that, I have seen photos of the SS crew wing foiling on the 90L wizard.

personally I have been holding back in ordering a smaller wing board with foot straps as most brands have just a slightly turned front foot strap, I find that super uncomfortable on my ankles and the new SS wing foil boards will be a "windsurf" 3 strap set up, so very happy about that.

11 Sep 2020 6:05AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Martiin said..
Interesting to hear what the advantages of going so narrow with the 2021 gear.

I have the 105 and feel like any narrower would compromise control especially when the wind is very light and I use 6.5

Feel like this makes the board less versatile.



Some good questions there.

Normally the answers is better when we have tested the new boards :), but they are still on the way to here (Perth)

So here is some 'dry land' info :)

Some of the answers above is spot on. Especially for the 2021 Wizard 114 compared to the 2020 Wizard 105L.
The tail section is still kept relative wide and this helps on stability, and the rails a lot more parallel, for added performance. So it might seam like a 'extreme' jump for the width on the Wizard 105L vs Wizard 114L, when you read the spec the first time around. But the still relative wide rear part of the board + the extra volume keeps the 114L stable (from floating to up and foiling)

The aim for the new 114L is to making the riding experience even more fun + the ability to carve. In a way more high performance, mostly for people that can already foil. Saying this then riders with good skills ( mostly from wave sailing) and not on the 'to heavy side', can use this size as their first board. For most other it is defiantly the 130L that would be the choice or Levitator 150L ( for heavier, or using quite big sails )

For the 'flag ship model' 2020 Wizard 125, the 2021 Wizard 130L is kept very close - as it is such a popular size.
For the 2021 you will enjoy the added strap positions for front and rear and one on the middle in front of the back straps.
The track system will allow you to move the wing and is a big plus for the tuning ( or using other foil sizes )

Note that the 114 and 90 has the extra inserts inboard, so they can be used for Wings.
Also, those 2 board has the extra front / rear strap position + strap position on the middle in front of the back straps + track system for the foils.

I would say the boards is lots more versatile this year, in a big way + +

The tail cut outs helps on the pumping ability. Not so much the gliding forward but mostly it reduce the surface of the tail, when you pump you change the position of the board to go up and down ( nose up and down) and it is just easier to do with less 'material' in the rear of the board (cut outs) to push down through the water ( to get lift on the foil) . The more of a effective pumper you are, then in a way the more benefit this is.

If your tail is narrower / or more pinned in, then tail cut outs can be a lot smaller / or not needed

For the new Wizard 90L, then this board is a bit unknown, but non or less looks super exciting :)

I hope we can get some 'real water time' feedback soon :)

Cheers
Jesper

thedoor
522 posts
11 Sep 2020 12:01PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Sail Repair WA said..

Martiin said..
Interesting to hear what the advantages of going so narrow with the 2021 gear.

I have the 105 and feel like any narrower would compromise control especially when the wind is very light and I use 6.5

Feel like this makes the board less versatile.




Some good questions there.

Normally the answers is better when we have tested the new boards :), but they are still on the way to here (Perth)

So here is some 'dry land' info :)

Some of the answers above is spot on. Especially for the 2021 Wizard 114 compared to the 2020 Wizard 105L.
The tail section is still kept relative wide and this helps on stability, and the rails a lot more parallel, for added performance. So it might seam like a 'extreme' jump for the width on the Wizard 105L vs Wizard 114L, when you read the spec the first time around. But the still relative wide rear part of the board + the extra volume keeps the 114L stable (from floating to up and foiling)

The aim for the new 114L is to making the riding experience even more fun + the ability to carve. In a way more high performance, mostly for people that can already foil. Saying this then riders with good skills ( mostly from wave sailing) and not on the 'to heavy side', can use this size as their first board. For most other it is defiantly the 130L that would be the choice or Levitator 150L ( for heavier, or using quite big sails )

For the 'flag ship model' 2020 Wizard 125, the 2021 Wizard 130L is kept very close - as it is such a popular size.
For the 2021 you will enjoy the added strap positions for front and rear and one on the middle in front of the back straps.
The track system will allow you to move the wing and is a big plus for the tuning ( or using other foil sizes )

Note that the 114 and 90 has the extra inserts inboard, so they can be used for Wings.
Also, those 2 board has the extra front / rear strap position + strap position on the middle in front of the back straps + track system for the foils.

I would say the boards is lots more versatile this year, in a big way + +

The tail cut outs helps on the pumping ability. Not so much the gliding forward but mostly it reduce the surface of the tail, when you pump you change the position of the board to go up and down ( nose up and down) and it is just easier to do with less 'material' in the rear of the board (cut outs) to push down through the water ( to get lift on the foil) . The more of a effective pumper you are, then in a way the more benefit this is.

If your tail is narrower / or more pinned in, then tail cut outs can be a lot smaller / or not needed

For the new Wizard 90L, then this board is a bit unknown, but non or less looks super exciting :)

I hope we can get some 'real water time' feedback soon :)

Cheers
Jesper


Thanks Jesper

boardsurfr
WA, 1110 posts
11 Sep 2020 9:28PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Sail Repair WA said..
The tail cut outs helps on the pumping ability. Not so much the gliding forward but mostly it reduce the surface of the tail, when you pump you change the position of the board to go up and down ( nose up and down) and it is just easier to do with less 'material' in the rear of the board (cut outs) to push down through the water ( to get lift on the foil) . The more of a effective pumper you are, then in a way the more benefit this is.


That makes sense - but it's also exactly what the tail kick does, and the tail kick is a lot easier to shape (working on a wing board right now - would not want to do cutouts). I'd also think that a tail kick creates less turbulence than cutouts when in displacement mode. With freeride foils and short boards, we're going straight from displacement to foiling, without planing in between, where cutouts may have the advantage of a cleaner water release.

wsurfn
44 posts
11 Sep 2020 10:34PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks Jesper

12 Sep 2020 7:01AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote


Good find there Tswie,,

I knew the Italians have fast cars! - and now also fast shipping :)

Alberto from lake Garda in Italy, already have some boards on hand there, while we are still patiently waiting here in Perth :)

Great small informative video clips on the new 2021 Wizard 130 and 114

Martiin
17 posts
15 Sep 2020 6:00PM
Thumbs Up

This video just up from Slingshot/Wyatt.

michaelpaf
51 posts
15 Sep 2020 6:45PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
boardsurfr said..

thedoor said..
No kicktail I believe but it does have cutouts




Can someone explain the design rational for cutouts in small freeride foil boards to me? I understand the idea behind kicktails for SUP-like boards: the board "fits" better into a wave, which gets it going faster, and allows for more rocking motion when pumping the board.

I also understand that cutouts may make sense in race foil boards, where the board is large, and the relatively small foil wings require that the board is pumped up to planing speed for take off. But with a larger freeride foil, you usually take off way before reaching planing speed. So reducing friction on the underside of the board with cutouts makes little sense.

Looking at "multi use" boards which are oriented towards wing foiling, they all seem to have kick tails. Some, like the JP foil SUP, have a sharp (90 degree) angle like a cutout where the kick tail starts, and a cutout-like step. But others, including boards from Armstrong, Naish, and Quatro, just have a small change in angle, without a "step". They seem to work perfectly fine, and are certainly easier to build, without extra sharp corners that sometimes are created using lots of filler.


Compared the 2019th and 2020 Wizard. THe 2019 is quite totally flat in the bottom.
The 2020 has deep double concave.
The 2019 sticks on the water and doesn't want to glide.
The 2020 is getting much more speed and gliding phase. Feels much looser on the feet and starting then flying earlier. Easier to pump better to controll on touch downs.I gues this effect will be archived also with the cut outs. But this only basing on the expereince with the comparsion of this two boards.

michaelpaf
51 posts
15 Sep 2020 7:48PM
Thumbs Up

Hey all,

big issue ....having now a Wizard 125 and really want a v3.
Are there some experiences here that compared the 125 and the 130 and 114?
Now my biggest sail is 5,4. My Wizard 125 has 10,5 kg. So compared to the expected weight of the 114 I guess 3,5 KG more. When I switch then from the hover glide to the phantasm will also save app. 2,5 KG.
Means my current 125 is just more like a 119 L Board.

But is has a big surface and I'm really not sure if I'll get it out with good pumping technique quite as early as my current 125.

Sailrange is 5,4 Bounce to 3,7 Banazai. So basing on this the 114 would fit perfect. Not sure if this compact board will get flying in same wind range???

Any experiences on that???

P.S: I love also to jump but I'm surfing only on a 1,5 x 1,5 km lake with gusty and low wind days...over the winter again and again very good days... so want to use also the low wind days with 7-11 knots...

boardsurfr
WA, 1110 posts
15 Sep 2020 9:49PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
michaelpaf said..
Compared the 2019th and 2020 Wizard. THe 2019 is quite totally flat in the bottom.
The 2020 has deep double concave.
The 2019 sticks on the water and doesn't want to glide.
The 2020 is getting much more speed and gliding phase. Feels much looser on the feet and starting then flying earlier. Easier to pump better to controll on touch downs.I gues this effect will be archived also with the cut outs. But this only basing on the expereince with the comparsion of this two boards.


So you had a chance to try the 2020 Wizard? Or is this based on what others said?

Anyway, this points to interesting differences between the optimal underwater shape for windsurfing and foiling. In windsurfing, too much underwater structure (double concave or similar) increases surface area and friction. Hence the flat rear bottoms of slalom and speed boards. But for foiling, the board needs to unstick from the water. That's actually harder with a very flat bottom shape. Wing boards, with almost kayak-like rails and often deep concaves, are an example. The shape reminds me a bit more of D2 boards than of planing windsurf boards.

Paducah
1106 posts
15 Sep 2020 11:35PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Martiin said..
This video just up from Slingshot/Wyatt.



"Tuttle - an 1985 technology" says the guy espousing US-box tracks from the 1970s.

Yes, tracks have their advantages but the marketing BS could be toned down.

segler
536 posts
16 Sep 2020 12:26AM
Thumbs Up

Hey, his job is marketing.

The massively huge advantage of the tracks is adjustability. Note that he compared 1cm of foil track adjustment to 10cm of sail mast track adjustment. He also emphasized balance between feet.

Twin tracks is the future. We will all benefit.

Paducah
1106 posts
16 Sep 2020 1:16AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
segler said..
Hey, his job is marketing.
...Note that he compared 1cm of foil track adjustment to 10cm of sail mast track adjustment.


Yes, as you said, his job is marketing.

The boards look nice, tracks have their advantages, just for me, let's leave it that I'd prefer a more straightforward pitch style. Another thread is the proper place for my doubts about his 10:1 claim as a blanket statement.

boardsurfr
WA, 1110 posts
16 Sep 2020 1:22AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
segler said..
The massively huge advantage of the tracks is adjustability.


That's the advantage that matters to users. But from an engineering standpoint, the tracks are clearly superior. Fin boxes like the tuttle box were designed for fins, where most of the forces are sideways. A tuttle box that connected to top an bottom layers is great for that. But in foiling, the force is directly upwards, and larger. Tracks have a much larger area to distribute the force, and mounting plate has a much larger area than the tuttle box when viewed from the top (and also than flanges like seen on Slingshot foils).

That does not mean that tracks can't fail. If they are used in a SUP-type construction (no sandwich at the bottom) and/or not reinforced with high density foam, there's a chance that the US boxes can work themselves loose over time, in a delamination-like failure or from crashes. A firm connection to the upper deck should help, though.

Grantmac
421 posts
16 Sep 2020 2:47AM
Thumbs Up

Installing and removing the foil is much easier with tracks. No need to wiggle the mast in, crushing straps etc. Then flipping it over to tighten bolts. They even make 1/4 turn foil nuts.

CoreAS
255 posts
16 Sep 2020 3:41AM
Thumbs Up

Twin tracks are the way to go. From winging 1cm can make a big difference to foiling up in light winds.
Glad the 130 has the center back strap, and it's shorter. Pretty much ticks all the boxes now.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing Foiling


"Wizard 2021" started by Martiin