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Anyone tried basalt cloth in sailboards?

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Created by Alex_sc 22 days ago, 28 Jun 2019
Alex_sc
WA, 58 posts
28 Jun 2019 10:38AM
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www.swellnet.com/news/design-outline/2019/06/27/new-cloth-on-the-block

sounds interesting, imagine carbon-like boards for $1,000 less?!

sailquik
VIC, 4662 posts
28 Jun 2019 2:28PM
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My understanding is that this Basalt cloth is more like the properties of S-Glass than carbon. But it is lower priced than S-Glass.

The other advantage is that it is more Eco-friendly.

"Damien Bensley from Colan Fibreglass came across basalt cloth in 2011 while making a hybrid fabric for a swimming pool company. "Basalt isn't as strong or as light as carbon, "says Damien, "but it's definitely stronger than normal glass. In fact, it's very similar to S-glass."

"It's a little more expensive than E-glass," explains John, "but not as expensive as S-glass, and nowhere near as expensive as carbon."

Mark _australia
WA, 19257 posts
28 Jun 2019 12:47PM
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It is much closer to s-glass, I used it a few years ago in some projects.

It is nice but it ain't carbon. Also, as it is made by melting rocks there is great variation in quality. Apparently one country has the best basalt and does it right, some others are not so great..... you want to check the source if you are doing an important project with it.
The basalt stuff Colan is doing is of course a good product, I want to try the 4oz cloth for sure.

So you aren't going to get a carbon-like board for $1000 less sorry. You're going to get a Sglass- like board for about $300 less than carbon, as that is the difference in the materials cost. Also take the numbers with a pinch of salt.....Everyone knows S=glass is 30% stronger than E-glass. Apparently.....
Colans testing shows in a laminate its about 8% stronger.

T

Nice to work with but very prickly even before laminating so wear gloves and wash clothes / self well after


+++++ But Colan / sanded etc..... PLEASE weave a 30" or 1m. There is so much good stuff for surboards that you can't use on a windsurf board deck, or a SUP bottom as its jussttttt a tiny bit too narrow ++++++

NelsonFoils
178 posts
28 Jun 2019 5:44PM
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basaltex.com/index.aspx

Imax1
VIC, 2062 posts
28 Jun 2019 8:30PM
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I've heard good quality E glass is almost as good as lesser s glass ?
What is really the difference ?
For what we do , a good 4 oz glass is what we compare all others .
Carbon , inegra , basalt , all sorts mix ,
Im confused.
Maybee the sum of parts is is compararable to how it is applied .

olskool
QLD, 1407 posts
28 Jun 2019 8:58PM
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^^ My 2c, im new to this stuff. But carbon is carbon different amount of strands n thickness woven together for different grades.
Innegra is glass with some other stronger flexible fibre sandwiched between the glass. Cant remember the fibres name.?? Think its a bit stiffer to lay up. n more expensive than
Double bias, which is glass woven threads at 45' n 90' to longitudinal threads. Cheapest strongest flexible to lay up stuff.
Chopstrand / unidirectional is just that.

Imax1
VIC, 2062 posts
28 Jun 2019 9:30PM
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As far as I get it , good quality glass is good .
All other good combos work .
A good board maker can make a good board with good e glass.
ps , I'm old fart

Ben1973
237 posts
28 Jun 2019 8:53PM
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Performance is more important than eco to me. Fed up with reps telling me how eco there stuff is when i just want to know does it work.

Imax1
VIC, 2062 posts
28 Jun 2019 11:14PM
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Select to expand quote
Ben1973 said..
Performance is more important than eco to me. Fed up with reps telling me how eco there stuff is when i just want to know does it work.


Eco ain't that eco.
The eco that were getting fed is s load of crock .
Reuse is way ,way ,way ,better than any recycle .
No brand says they make a better second hand board .
Dont get me started.

sanded
NSW, 68 posts
29 Jun 2019 1:30PM
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Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..

+++++ But Colan / sanded etc..... PLEASE weave a 30" or 1m. There is so much good stuff for surboards that you can't use on a windsurf board deck, or a SUP bottom as its jussttttt a tiny bit too narrow ++++++


Hey Mark
The plan will be if it takes off... to do a 30inch and maybe a 1m wide but unfortunately we have to have the customers to do these widths, apart from you guys not many making sailboards/sups in Australia and in the past when we do make these sizes in Australia, the manufacturers which will use it volume then go overseas with our samples and make the fabric in china (with less quality fibres)... so its hard to keep the price down to compete with these fabrics without losing the quality.

Perfect example we had a Big windsurf company come to us about making "direct size" S glass (which is stronger than any other Sglass on the market) we gave them a price which was less than $1 per metre higher (including shipping to their manufacturing base) than they were quoted from a chinese company making "baked" Sglass (weakest on the market). Where in surf some of the brands ship our materials straight into Cobra to make their boards with Australian products.

The surfboard manufacturers (backyardies and some manufacturers) which understand like you... that if you buy the cloths from us that its quality products and keeping jobs in Australia but some other manufacturers are all about the price. We have enough of the like minded guys using us in surf to make our products in smaller widths, our hope is hopefully that some of the windsurf/sup guys also understand this and we can get the demand, then we can make some of our products in wider widths.

Cheers

sailquik
VIC, 4662 posts
29 Jun 2019 7:46PM
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Thanks for coming in on thos John.

Can you give us some idea of the strength and/or stiffness advantage of your Basalt cloth over Colan surfboard glass and/or 'direct size' S-glass in a typical epoxy laminate please?

Imax1
VIC, 2062 posts
30 Jun 2019 8:21AM
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What is actually the manufacturing difference between " direct size and non direct size "
Ive read Sanded Australia's description , and I use their glass , but it doesn't tell the tech story , ( maybee it's a secret )
And how good is good direct E glass compared to cheap S glass ?
And is it actually , direct or correct ?

sailquik
VIC, 4662 posts
30 Jun 2019 11:23AM
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'Sizing' is the chemical coating process applied to the glass as it is extruded that does a whole lot of different things, including binding the threads when they are woven, but dissolving and allowing the threads to wet out completely when they are laid up with resin. It also greatly effects what sort of resins it is compatible with and how well the resin can adhere to the glass. Better adhesion = better final laminate strength.

One would assume that Basalt fibers would also be 'sized', the chemestry of the sizing might be different, and the properties and process of the sizing is very important to the strength of the finished laminate.

Direct sized is glass that is not heat cleaned (baked in an oven) and this apparently allows it to retain much more strength. It can be applied to E-glass and S-Glass. It's very hard to find out much more about it.

sailquik
VIC, 4662 posts
30 Jun 2019 11:31AM
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Good comparison chart of fibers:

www.colan.com.au/compositereinforcement/resources/fibre-information/fibre-comparison-charts/

Dar
167 posts
2 Jul 2019 2:51PM
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Select to expand quote
sanded said..

Mark _australia said..

+++++ But Colan / sanded etc..... PLEASE weave a 30" or 1m. There is so much good stuff for surboards that you can't use on a windsurf board deck, or a SUP bottom as its jussttttt a tiny bit too narrow ++++++



Hey Mark
The plan will be if it takes off... to do a 30inch and maybe a 1m wide but unfortunately we have to have the customers to do these widths, apart from you guys not many making sailboards/sups in Australia and in the past when we do make these sizes in Australia, the manufacturers which will use it volume then go overseas with our samples and make the fabric in china (with less quality fibres)... so its hard to keep the price down to compete with these fabrics without losing the quality.

Perfect example we had a Big windsurf company come to us about making "direct size" S glass (which is stronger than any other Sglass on the market) we gave them a price which was less than $1 per metre higher (including shipping to their manufacturing base) than they were quoted from a chinese company making "baked" Sglass (weakest on the market). Where in surf some of the brands ship our materials straight into Cobra to make their boards with Australian products.

The surfboard manufacturers (backyardies and some manufacturers) which understand like you... that if you buy the cloths from us that its quality products and keeping jobs in Australia but some other manufacturers are all about the price. We have enough of the like minded guys using us in surf to make our products in smaller widths, our hope is hopefully that some of the windsurf/sup guys also understand this and we can get the demand, then we can make some of our products in wider widths.

Cheers


Hi sanded

Do you have any distributors in South Africa?

Thanks

Dar



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"Anyone tried basalt cloth in sailboards?" started by Alex_sc