Forums > Windsurfing General

Do the WS brands and WS retailers visit and take an interest in the SB windsurf forums?

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Created by Orange Whip 1 month ago, 17 May 2022
Orange Whip
QLD, 989 posts
17 May 2022 8:24PM
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I would assume that they would, but if they do, why are they silent? ( that's an assumption because I don't read every post in these forums)

There are plenty of topics on here that are begging for input from them to prevent conjecture, hearsay and guessing and provide facts that would benefit their businesses by them providing that information.

ozzimark
13 posts
17 May 2022 9:55PM
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A great question. Looking back at older posts, it seems like vendors used to be more involved. Overall it seems like forum activity is way down compared to what it used to be, so there's obviously some limited return on engaging a smaller group of people compared to the reach they might get on the bigger platforms... In response, it seems that they've shifted focus toward a social media marketing approach using FB/IG/etc posts, and dropped the more labor intensive online forums all together, including removing forums from their own websites, like HSM and Starboard have done recently.

It would be really nice if they did contribute more though. I'm all about reading through technical discussions on the finer details of the sport, and those discussions amongst us "normal" folk would be enriched with feedback those who actually make the gear! To that end, I really enjoy posts from Mark/Fangy/Imax/etc., who actually make hardware, have "been there, done that", and get into technical conversations about what matters and why... Meanwhile, I'm just a noob who wants to flap my sail around and go fast without falling too much.

duzzi
718 posts
17 May 2022 11:03PM
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Select to expand quote
Orange Whip said..
I would assume that they would, but if they do, why are they silent? ( that's an assumption because I don't read every post in these forums)

There are plenty of topics on here that are begging for input from them to prevent conjecture, hearsay and guessing and provide facts that would benefit their businesses by them providing that information.




Hopefully not, the last thing you want is for business to join in with barely disguised commercials. If you want to hear what a manufacturer says about their product go to the web page of the manufacturer. All the info they want to provide, including hype and questionable claims, will be there. Manufacturers are not the source for objective information!

For a recent example look at the mess that happened following the posts from the Australian North distributor!

Grantmac
1426 posts
18 May 2022 12:00AM
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Ola H. Used to post amazing design insight. I think I joined this forum specifically to interact with his posts. Unfortunately haven't seen much from him lately.

40FrothyKnots
NSW, 58 posts
18 May 2022 6:17AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

Orange Whip said..
I would assume that they would, but if they do, why are they silent? ( that's an assumption because I don't read every post in these forums)

There are plenty of topics on here that are begging for input from them to prevent conjecture, hearsay and guessing and provide facts that would benefit their businesses by them providing that information.





Hopefully not, the last thing you want is for business to join in with barely disguised commercials. If you want to hear what a manufacturer says about their product go to the web page of the manufacturer. All the info they want to provide, including hype and questionable claims, will be there. Manufacturers are not the source for objective information!

For a recent example look at the mess that happened following the posts from the Australian North distributor!


May be because people don't read carefully/misread the information we put out there?

For example, I never started a post on SB in the WS forum as you say, nor I pushed on heavy propaganda for my Brand as you mentioned in the NS thread?

I just answered questions about the technology and the ETA on these products as many here were saying that it's all fake new and that we never gonna see them in the market anytime soon.

From what I experienced here no matter the good intention, most of the time it's going to fire back to us.

I am "new" to the game compared to other distributors, it seems they learned the lesson a while ago and trying to stay away from this as much as they can, I will have to learn to do the same, however, I am happy to answer query over private messages if someone has any.

Cheers.





duzzi
718 posts
18 May 2022 5:11AM
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Select to expand quote
Kitekeeper said..

duzzi said..


Orange Whip said..
I would assume that they would, but if they do, why are they silent? ( that's an assumption because I don't read every post in these forums)

There are plenty of topics on here that are begging for input from them to prevent conjecture, hearsay and guessing and provide facts that would benefit their businesses by them providing that information.






Hopefully not, the last thing you want is for business to join in with barely disguised commercials. If you want to hear what a manufacturer says about their product go to the web page of the manufacturer. All the info they want to provide, including hype and questionable claims, will be there. Manufacturers are not the source for objective information!

For a recent example look at the mess that happened following the posts from the Australian North distributor!



May be because people don't read carefully/misread the information we put out there?

For example, I never started a post on SB in the WS forum as you say, nor I pushed on heavy propaganda for my Brand as you mentioned in the NS thread?

I just answered questions about the technology and the ETA on these products as many here were saying that it's all fake new and that we never gonna see them in the market anytime soon.

From what I experienced here no matter the good intention, most of the time it's going to fire back to us.

I am "new" to the game compared to other distributors, it seems they learned the lesson a while ago and trying to stay away from this as much as they can, I will have to learn to do the same, however, I am happy to answer query over private messages if someone has any.

Cheers.







A forum is not an industry newsletter, two different objects.

40FrothyKnots
NSW, 58 posts
18 May 2022 7:25AM
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You see what you want to see..

If you re-read the NS post carefully you will see most of the time I was answering questions from SB users and responding to someone that was only providing misleading information on the products.

All the best mate.

Paducah
1862 posts
18 May 2022 12:26PM
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I think they do but most feel it's not worth participating because I've seen so many times someone who just stands up and starts shouting rather than participating in a conversation. If you aren't convinced, imagine how the professional board shapers and repair specialists that do post here frequently feel to give advice based on having worked on hundreds of boards; and then be contradicted by someone with much less experience and told they are ripping off their customers.

Select to expand quote
someone above said..
Manufacturers are not the source for objective information!


Of course, not. But, most often it is an informed opinion, a very informed opinion. If and when someone say, like Alex Udin (who posts frequently on the French forums where there seems to be more industry participation), Ola H., Patrik Diethelm (who recently visited the windfoil forum) etc posted here, of course, they have their biases. They work long and hard to make competitive products in a small market and are likely very proud of their output. Most of us will listen, pay attention, and see if anything they are saying translates to what we do. We know it's a sales pitch but I find it's great to get their point of view - sometimes I actually learn something.

Simplepatch
NSW, 5 posts
18 May 2022 3:15PM
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Select to expand quote
Paducah said..
I think they do but most feel it's not worth participating because I've seen so many times someone who just stands up and starts shouting rather than participating in a conversation. If you aren't convinced, imagine how the professional board shapers and repair specialists that do post here frequently feel to give advice based on having worked on hundreds of boards; and then be contradicted by someone with much less experience and told they are ripping off their customers.

someone above said..
Manufacturers are not the source for objective information!



Of course, not. But, most often it is an informed opinion, a very informed opinion. If and when someone say, like Alex Udin (who posts frequently on the French forums where there seems to be more industry participation), Ola H., Patrik Diethelm (who recently visited the windfoil forum) etc posted here, of course, they have their biases. They work long and hard to make competitive products in a small market and are likely very proud of their output. Most of us will listen, pay attention, and see if anything they are saying translates to what we do. We know it's a sales pitch but I find it's great to get their point of view - sometimes I actually learn something.


As a supplier & designer of products that have sold to windsurfers for many years I've been reluctant to post for above reasons. It's too easy to have negativity associated with a product that can be totally wrong argued by some keyboard warrior, but this hangs in google search results and can effect businesses for a longtime. It's risk vs reward. In general I find no-one does business in the windsurfing market because they want to make money, they do it because they want to make a living doing something associated with what they like. This is all retail, wholesale, manufacture whatever, there are way bigger markets to earn money.

Mark _australia
WA, 21491 posts
18 May 2022 1:37PM
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Man I'm conflicted now

decrepit
WA, 11123 posts
18 May 2022 1:40PM
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locosys's firmware developer did for a while, which was great, it was a good interaction about what we wanted in a gps and what the device was capable of. But I think management didn't like it, and he stopped posting/

sheddweller
29 posts
19 May 2022 12:43AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

Orange Whip said..
I would assume that they would, but if they do, why are they silent? ( that's an assumption because I don't read every post in these forums)

There are plenty of topics on here that are begging for input from them to prevent conjecture, hearsay and guessing and provide facts that would benefit their businesses by them providing that information.





Hopefully not, the last thing you want is for business to join in with barely disguised commercials. If you want to hear what a manufacturer says about their product go to the web page of the manufacturer. All the info they want to provide, including hype and questionable claims, will be there. Manufacturers are not the source for objective information!

For a recent example look at the mess that happened following the posts from the Australian North distributor!


The flip side to this is that it is the people involved in the making of equipment who have a greater understanding of that equipment.
If you are interested in technical things then those people are a great resource.
You just need to "filter" the comments for bias from some posters, but the ones i have seen it is less a wish to "promote their own kit" and more a passionate belief in their way of doing things.
Better that than having to filter the ignorance out of the comments of the uninformed eh duzzi?

Awalkspoiled
WA, 261 posts
19 May 2022 1:18AM
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Patrik Diethelm recently posted a detailed analysis of the function of cutouts in Foilboards. No product shilling, no shade on other designers, just really useful, thoughtful, thorough info. Search patrikdiethelm.

ozzimark
13 posts
19 May 2022 2:59AM
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Seems like a simple approach would be to clearly identify the users who are posting in an "official" capacity related to any company/supplier that they work for or represent. I remember when the computer enthusiast community had similar problems back in the mid-2000's with vendors working semi-undercover on sites like hardforum or xtremesystems, providing specially picked hardware reviews, etc. Stuff would inevitably come to light and ruin any trust the community had for that particular brand. Transparency fixes most of these problems. Those who violate it get banned.

gorgesailor
498 posts
19 May 2022 3:28AM
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Select to expand quote
ozzimark said..
Seems like a simple approach would be to clearly identify the users who are posting in an "official" capacity related to any company/supplier that they work for or represent. I remember when the computer enthusiast community had similar problems back in the mid-2000's with vendors working semi-undercover on sites like hardforum or xtremesystems, providing specially picked hardware reviews, etc. Stuff would inevitably come to light and ruin any trust the community had for that particular brand. Transparency fixes most of these problems. Those who violate it get banned.


I don't think most of the users who are industry insiders hide their affiliations, & most don't post propaganda. I am currently affiliated with Chinook windsurfing products, K4 fins, & Takuma foils & boards etc. I am not directly involved in sales, but make my affiliation known when necessary but rarely will I post in an "Official" capacity. Due to my background in building & repairing boards & working in composites as well as having Windsurfed for over 35 years, I post whenever it strikes my fancy. I will post about the brands I am affiliated with when I need to correct misinformation, provide a recommendation or technical details etc... I never bash other brands & will often defend them against douchebag attacks from armchair engineers... & other no-it-alls who are over their head... The views I express are my own as "Gorgesailor" not "Chinook/K4/Takuma guy" which is why I do not use it as my "Handle." I also have no problem with other brands putting their product information out there - even if it is sometimes a bit hyped. We are not idiots, we can easily tell the difference between product information & spin & IMHO the more hype they put out, the more critical the response will be. I for one appreciate the info.

azymuth
WA, 1631 posts
19 May 2022 7:54AM
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gorgesailor said..I don't think most of the users who are industry insiders hide their affiliations, & most don't post propaganda. I am currently affiliated with Chinook windsurfing products, K4 fins, & Takuma foils & boards etc. I am not directly involved in sales, but make my affiliation known when necessary but rarely will I post in an "Official" capacity. Due to my background in building & repairing boards & working in composites as well as having Windsurfed for over 35 years, I post whenever it strikes my fancy. I will post about the brands I am affiliated with when I need to correct misinformation, provide a recommendation or technical details etc... I never bash other brands & will often defend them against douchebag attacks from armchair engineers... & other no-it-alls who are over their head... The views I express are my own as "Gorgesailor" not "Chinook/K4/Takuma guy" which is why I do not use it as my "Handle." I also have no problem with other brands putting their product information out there - even if it is sometimes a bit hyped. We are not idiots, we can easily tell the difference between product information & spin & IMHO the more hype they put out, the more critical the response will be. I for one appreciate the info.




Well put - 100% agree

R1DER
WA, 1385 posts
19 May 2022 9:59PM
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"Do the WS brands and WS retailers visit and take an interest in the SB windsurf forums?"

I doubt it, why would they? Social media is where its at. Plus they've got sponsored and team riders for top level feedback. They get damaged warranty feedback to assess if any changes are to be made.



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"Do the WS brands and WS retailers visit and take an interest in the SB windsurf forums?" started by Orange Whip