Forums > Windsurfing General

Harness line length

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Created by olskool 26 days ago, 28 Oct 2017
olskool
QLD, 354 posts
28 Oct 2017 12:27PM
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Hey Crew, im looking to try longer length lines. Just feel im not straightening my front arm enough n loading unnecessarily bicep n forearm. Im 6'2" , currently use 26-32 at max. Looking at 36 adjustables

What size lines do all you TALL crew use? Any recommendations?

joe windsurf
1153 posts
28 Oct 2017 11:32AM
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am about 6'1" and use Chinook race adjustable now
which I thought went past 32" max - NOT and so, i typically run @ 32

when i first started short boarding and using the harness, i had an old rope style harness set way out
and another regular shorter harness line(s) for when the wind picked up ...

Spotty
1026 posts
28 Oct 2017 11:49AM
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@6'3" Adj' 32-34 depending on conditions/boom height.

General rule of thumb grab boom between HL and it should reach around elbow firmly, this length is somewhat relative to your height. Adjust either way around this depending on your harness hook height/type and where you want your boom set for conditions or type of sailing your doing.

Just remember fixed HL length can be adjusted somewhat depending on how far apart they are fixed to the boom.

Tardy
1788 posts
28 Oct 2017 2:55PM
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Nice photo oldskool.
i don't use harness lines

Duff12
WA, 52 posts
28 Oct 2017 4:05PM
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Hi Oldskool. You make a good point. I think you would benefit from longer lines and stretching your arms out straight once you get used to the difference.
I sail a Mistral Equipe raceboard. I'm 188cm tall and my lines are 42cm long. The lines are together where they attach to the boom which makes them effectively longer than having them spread apart like yours. I have my boom at nose height.
If I was on a shortboard, I would have my boom slightly lower and shorter harness lines.
Good luck

Shifu
QLD, 542 posts
28 Oct 2017 7:50PM
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Your line length is probably ok, but definitely get a set of adjustables and experiment. Im 5'10" and use 30s.

A few other thoughts - If you're getting pressure on your forward arm maybe this is a line position issue? Also, your Ezzy should have an exceptionally neutral featherweight feel. If it feels heavy, or you're getting a lot of front arm pressure you possibly aren't using enough downhaul.

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
28 Oct 2017 10:20PM
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Thanks guys. Bit more info. Last few times ive sailed ive moved HL closer together fist n half apart. Sail definately feels more twitchy to gusts. But at same time i can let go of boom n sail a few seconds balanced,no hands if its not gusty. Rigging wise ive always rigged DH for the lulls to keep my RB planing. Once it becomes too backhandy or tries to flick me on my back in gusts, i DH further n adjust OH to suit.Then sail is light in the hands but lacks the drive thru lulls. I like to keep powered to the max coz im hellbent on keeping up with the shortboard crew. (dare to be different kinda guy)
Big ask of 90s RB, i know. But i feel it can be achieved. If i fine tune my entire setup to sail COMFORTABLY itll be Fast.
So 36" adjustables seem a worthy tuning exercise?
Yo Tardy, No Harness huh? Feel the power. Use the force dude.
I will come to your island to check that technique.

dextersurf
SA, 88 posts
28 Oct 2017 11:45PM
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Here is a good video from last month ...

mr love
VIC, 1500 posts
29 Oct 2017 9:31AM
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Hi Oldskool........I think longer lines will help however also think about your posture / stance. I notice in your photo your upper body is quite upright which brings your shoulders closer to the boom hence the bent arms. Try leaning back a bit, push your shoulders back to straighten your arms. Your upper body will be further out, you will have more leverage and go faster. I think we all go into that upright more hunched stance at times, especially in rough water....when I want to pass somebody I really concentrate on pushing my shoulders back and straightening my arms...it works.

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
29 Oct 2017 11:16AM
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Hey Mr Love. Good point. On my RB my stance is more like you say. Shoulders back. The pic is a 90s Bic Metal Rock. Mast track in board is way forward. Modern sail has me standing oddly. Side on view,my feet are in straps but my upper body is leaning quite far forward so as to not rake sail too far back to prevent constant rounding up. Really gives my legs a workout. See if i can source another pic.
Cheers

petermac33
WA, 3958 posts
29 Oct 2017 7:16PM
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I've been getting shorter as I age.

Tried 30's before and way too long.

Then tried 26's for a couple of years and it felt right.

Now on 24's and they are perfect.

Takes a few sails till they stretch in / come closer to increase to their length.

Longer lines for me equal better downwind sailing but not good upwind.

Longer lines equal more not less fatigue on my arms.

Longest I've ever seen was Ant Baker,he had like 35's or something.


Tardy
1788 posts
30 Oct 2017 5:50AM
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Select to expand quote
petermac33 said..
I've been getting shorter as I age.

Tried 30's before and way too long.

Then tried 26's for a couple of years and it felt right.

Now on 24's and they are perfect.

Takes a few sails till they stretch in / come closer to increase to their length.

Longer lines for me equal better downwind sailing but not good upwind.

Longer lines equal more not less fatigue on my arms.

Longest I've ever seen was Ant Baker,he had like 35's or something.






not many people go back Pete.but if it works for you do it.......are you sure your ageing ?
....
i'm sitting in the middle ,30 'where to long for me ,cause i ocean sail a lot ,and my arse
kept hitting the water ,26 and 28 are good for me ,i have my boom in the middle position .
maybe play with that too.

depends how long your arms are and how far you have them spaced apart too,i see by the photo
your lines have a large gap between them,i use to sail like that ,but i use to wear my lines out .I found the ezzy lines have the best plastic for wear ...2 years now still going .i do a lot of sailing too.with one boom.
i only need about 200 ml between them ,try that and you'll get more length out of them .hope its a happy ending.

and put a shirt on

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
30 Oct 2017 10:09AM
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Gday Tardy, distance between HL on boom is two hands. Maybe a touch less.Lately each session ive moved them closer together. Can find the balance point ok, but on gusts sail wants to flick around. Wide kinda stabilizes it? Ive also dropped boom height about 40mm from top of boom at 5 down to just above 4, about my shoulder height. This has helped quite a bit.
Put a shirt on?? Nah, way too hot for that here on the sunny coast. I actually work up a big sweat trying to get my RB fangin along. Just sunscreen required here dude.

Tardy
1788 posts
30 Oct 2017 8:41AM
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all good ...i just read your 6.2 ..so you will have longer arms than me ..
still cool here ,i'm still in a long leg wetsuit ...come on warm currents ...water is a mer 19...bbbrrrr.

i seen a guy with 2 sets of harness lines one day ...he said one was for going up wind ..slightly shorter too...
he was fast....he would run right up .wind ....then run down at a hell of a speed ...yeow....i wanted to check his watch ..

freerider.

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
30 Oct 2017 11:50AM
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Tardy, that fella was before his time. In the know. Makes sense. Before adjustables were available id think. Kinda like Fangys fins. Thinking outside the square. Awesome.

John340
QLD, 1683 posts
30 Oct 2017 6:18PM
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Just lengthened mine from 28 to 30. They felt more comfortable and were faster. I'm going to try even longer (31 to 32)

Subsonic
WA, 1070 posts
30 Oct 2017 8:48PM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..
Gday Tardy, distance between HL on boom is two hands. Maybe a touch less.Lately each session ive moved them closer together. Can find the balance point ok, but on gusts sail wants to flick around. Wide kinda stabilizes it? Ive also dropped boom height about 40mm from top of boom at 5 down to just above 4, about my shoulder height. This has helped quite a bit.
Put a shirt on?? Nah, way too hot for that here on the sunny coast. I actually work up a big sweat trying to get my RB fangin along. Just sunscreen required here dude.


Theres a trick in there somewhere.

Put the harness lines together to find the spot, then move them apart equal distance from that spot to stabilize the sail.

Good luck finding the right size.

Shifu
QLD, 542 posts
31 Oct 2017 9:14AM
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I don't think there is anything wrong with your stance actually. And to me your front arm does not look too bent. When I was sailing on Sunday my arm was about the same angle.

You look OK in both photos in the Golden Beach thread.

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
31 Oct 2017 9:36PM
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Howdy Shifu, the main reason im asking advice is i was experiencing tennis elbow n wondering if longer harness length would stop or reduce possibility of further injury.

fanfare
20 posts
31 Oct 2017 7:44PM
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im only 202cm so not exactly tall but I do like to use really really long lines so that I can hang really low over the water allmost horizontal. this way my body acts as a wing and generates a little lift. I have been quitely dominateing the speed board useing this technique.

John340
QLD, 1683 posts
1 Nov 2017 5:14AM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..
Howdy Shifu, the main reason im asking advice is i was experiencing tennis elbow n wondering if longer harness length would stop or reduce possibility of further injury.



Lengthening harness lines to straighten your arms will reduce the tendinitis. Correct location of the harness lines on the boom so the sail is balanced is also important

Mastbender
1466 posts
1 Nov 2017 3:15AM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..
Howdy Shifu, the main reason im asking advice is i was experiencing tennis elbow n wondering if longer harness length would stop or reduce possibility of further injury.



Tennis elbow, that's a horse of a different color, I also think your pic looks pretty normal.
I had the same problem quite awhile ago, and it was from playing tennis, of all things. Tennis, and other things that require full arm extension, can result in what you are getting from windsurfing, which mostly requires arms slightly bent. So actually longer harness lines can make it worse. In my case I enjoyed w'surfing much more than tennis, so I simply hung up the tennis racquet, and the tennis elbow slowly went away. So I'd say find out what you are doing that requires straight arm or over extended arm strength, and try to curtail that. Water skiing, and wake boarding also doesn't mix with w'surfing for the same reason, your elbows can revolt from that.
Also straight arms while w'surfing can result in shoulder injury. Your arms are straight and then you get hit with an overpowering gust, that shock will go directly to your shoulders because you have no give with straight arms, which also ups your chances at getting launched.
Must keep the arms slightly bent for safe, and easier sailing.

This just goes to show which answer you want to agree with, John340 won't agree with this I'm sure.

John340
QLD, 1683 posts
1 Nov 2017 7:22AM
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Select to expand quote
Mastbender said..

olskool said..
Howdy Shifu, the main reason im asking advice is i was experiencing tennis elbow n wondering if longer harness length would stop or reduce possibility of further injury.




Tennis elbow, that's a horse of a different color, I also think your pic looks pretty normal.
I had the same problem quite awhile ago, and it was from playing tennis, of all things. Tennis, and other things that require full arm extension, can result in what you are getting from windsurfing, which mostly requires arms slightly bent. So actually longer harness lines can make it worse. In my case I enjoyed w'surfing much more than tennis, so I simply hung up the tennis racquet, and the tennis elbow slowly went away. So I'd say find out what you are doing that requires straight arm or over extended arm strength, and try to curtail that. Water skiing, and wake boarding also doesn't mix with w'surfing for the same reason, your elbows can revolt from that.
Also straight arms while w'surfing can result in shoulder injury. Your arms are straight and then you get hit with an overpowering gust, that shock will go directly to your shoulders because you have no give with straight arms, which also ups your chances at getting launched.
Must keep the arms slightly bent for safe, and easier sailing.

This just goes to show which answer you want to agree with, John340 won't agree with this I'm sure.


Taking almost all of the sail pressure by hanging off your harness lines and only using your arms for adjustments in trim of the sail is the key for me. This reduces the load through the tendons in the elbow. Longer well positioned lines helps me do this.

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
1 Nov 2017 7:27AM
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Select to expand quote
fanfare said..
im only 202cm so not exactly tall but I do like to use really really long lines so that I can hang really low over the water allmost horizontal. this way my body acts as a wing and generates a little lift. I have been quitely dominateing the speed board useing this technique.


Most others i can see valid points, n will experiment to see what works for me. This one has me BAFFLED. April 1st is months away!! 202cm not tall? Im 189cm n tower over many... Bernoulli effect from your body????? Are you wearing a wing suit whilst sailing? Cmon!!!! Sling us a photo of your stance...

olskool
QLD, 354 posts
1 Nov 2017 7:41AM
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+1 John340. In good constant wind this is achievable. But in gusty wind too straight an arm does pull directly on the shoulder. Using 8m cheetah, HL just under 2 hands apart. Can sail no hands for 20-30m. Any closer n sail is too reactive to gusts, quite twitchy. Is this the norm?

Tardy
1788 posts
1 Nov 2017 5:50AM
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hi oldschool .
i don't really think there is much wrong with your stance ,,the bent arm could be you adjusting running up wind ,,it all about being comfy and having your weight on your harness ,I'm quite happy with 26-28 ...i think its all about trial and error ..heres my stance photo.


John340
QLD, 1683 posts
1 Nov 2017 8:10AM
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Select to expand quote
Mastbender said..


olskool said..
Howdy Shifu, the main reason im asking advice is i was experiencing tennis elbow n wondering if longer harness length would stop or reduce possibility of further injury.





Tennis elbow, that's a horse of a different color, I also think your pic looks pretty normal.
I had the same problem quite awhile ago, and it was from playing tennis, of all things. Tennis, and other things that require full arm extension, can result in what you are getting from windsurfing, which mostly requires arms slightly bent. So actually longer harness lines can make it worse. In my case I enjoyed w'surfing much more than tennis, so I simply hung up the tennis racquet, and the tennis elbow slowly went away. So I'd say find out what you are doing that requires straight arm or over extended arm strength, and try to curtail that. Water skiing, and wake boarding also doesn't mix with w'surfing for the same reason, your elbows can revolt from that.
Also straight arms while w'surfing can result in shoulder injury. Your arms are straight and then you get hit with an overpowering gust, that shock will go directly to your shoulders because you have no give with straight arms, which also ups your chances at getting launched.
Must keep the arms slightly bent for safe, and easier sailing.

This just goes to show which answer you want to agree with, John340 won't agree with this I'm sure.



Taking almost all of the sail pressure by hanging off your harness lines and only using your arms for adjustments in trim of the sail is the key for me. This reduces the load through the tendons in the elbow. Longer well positioned lines helps me do this.

Select to expand quote
olskool said..
+1 John340. In good constant wind this is achievable. But in gusty wind too straight an arm does pull directly on the shoulder. Using 8m cheetah, HL just under 2 hands apart. Can sail no hands for 20-30m. Any closer n sail is too reactive to gusts, quite twitchy. Is this the norm?


Two hands apart works for me too.

Physio can also help healing. Check ou the following

www.sportandspinalphysio.com.au/6-steps-to-fixing-tennis-elbow-pain/

azymuth
WA, 336 posts
1 Nov 2017 9:36AM
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I find ocean blasting easier using long lines (34cm), a low boom & mostly straight arms.

Low stance using my legs as shock absorbers. JJ

Like this (stock photo)




olskool
QLD, 354 posts
1 Nov 2017 12:44PM
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Thanks for the pics guys. Lookin well powered there Tardy!

Shifu
QLD, 542 posts
1 Nov 2017 4:24PM
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I dont think there's anything to be gained for blasting type sailing with line two hand widths apart. Try 2.5 you will have more stability. The freestylers like them close together and it became a fashion thing.

There IS a lot to be gained from commitment to the harness and trying to reserve your arms and hands for trim only. Rigs over 6.5m put a lot more stress on you during manouvres because, out of the harness, you have to deal with a lot more power.

I think you should experiment more with downhaul on your cheetah, using outhaul for fullness. A sail with featherlight feel is easier on your joints. My whole setup is built around Ezzy Cheetahs for just that reason and I open water sail hundreds of kilometres with good comfort.

fanfare
20 posts
1 Nov 2017 6:53PM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..

fanfare said..
im only 202cm so not exactly tall but I do like to use really really long lines so that I can hang really low over the water allmost horizontal. this way my body acts as a wing and generates a little lift. I have been quitely dominateing the speed board useing this technique.



Most others i can see valid points, n will experiment to see what works for me. This one has me BAFFLED. April 1st is months away!! 202cm not tall? Im 189cm n tower over many... Bernoulli effect from your body????? Are you wearing a wing suit whilst sailing? Cmon!!!! Sling us a photo of your stance...


I just wear a pair of budgies and make sure im properly ionised up on my forward faceing half by useing a bit of the old warney rub



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"Harness line length" started by olskool