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Huge sails

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Created by Waggaflats 1 month ago, 2 Apr 2019
Waggaflats
2 posts
2 Apr 2019 5:58PM
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Hi, anyone got some advice about using very large sails? I wanted to get plaining and scored a 12.5 metre sail with all the other gear. Is something going to break?

BSN101
WA, 1575 posts
2 Apr 2019 9:42PM
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What are you going to use it on? Tell us what the rig is.

olskool
QLD, 1273 posts
3 Apr 2019 2:04AM
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Maybe YOU?? Itll be big n heavy to uphaul n a monster to waterstart. What board are you using it on?

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1821 posts
3 Apr 2019 7:56AM
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Large sails need big fins and wide boards, typically a formula board with 70cm fin for that sail. Depending on the board it does take some technique and fitness. The sensation of cruising on the plane is very enjoyable.

ballast
QLD, 418 posts
3 Apr 2019 7:29AM
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I have a Neil Pryde 10.7 RS6 Formula sail.
I have used this with a similar vintage (2005) Formula board with limited success.

As mentioned above, this is a very heavy sail. 12.5 could only be heavier again I guess. Frikkin heavy to uphaul if you drop it.
Would recommend an easy-uphaul if you can get one.

If you have the right gear, it should be fine breakage wise.
I used an extender with mine, as I didn't have the right mast and was using it on a 4.9, with a big extention as well. You have to put scarey amounts of down haul on it with a winch. The extender eventually broke while I was trying to pump it, in the middle of the channel at Golden Beach.

That is some really large kit to swim in when the current is running.

Have fun!!!

cammd
QLD, 2220 posts
3 Apr 2019 8:10AM
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I don't really have an issue uphauling my 12.0mtr, just be patient and let the water drain off before trying to pull it up all the way. Because you only use them in really light winds you tend to not drop it very often if at all so the max your up hauling in a session is normally only once or twice.

I do find them a lot more physical to sail, the first couple of runs and I am puffing, after a while I get used to it and can settle into some good powered up sailing in light conditions.

I can always feel the effects after a session on formula gear, sore muscles etc, so I don't mind the effort required to sail the big gear as it makes me feel like I have had a good workout even though its only light wind

Manuel7
259 posts
3 Apr 2019 9:35AM
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I loved cruising with my 9.2 and formula board. Rarely uphauled (not any harder than other sails), waterstarted without issues. Weight was 75kg at the time. Saw bigger guys on 10.6, they were doing really well out there too. We were the only ones planing pretty much.

powersloshin
NSW, 1004 posts
3 Apr 2019 12:48PM
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My max size is 11.0, thinking of a 12.5 freaks me out ! I found if the wind is up and down it is scary in the gusts, in that case go upwind and downwind, you can depower the sail downwind putting the back foot in the chicken strap. It gets easier the more you use it, the first runs are the hardest, give it plenty of downhaul . Also make yourself an 'easy' uphaul, you can just tie another loop to your uphaul rope so you can pull with the harness hook. I managed to waterstart the 11, but its a lot of work !
good luck !

gavnwend
NSW, 1007 posts
3 Apr 2019 1:38PM
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My thoughts would be not going any bigger than the 11mtr you have . That's enough for reaching across the wind & holding it down if the wind picks up.If you going to race (Formula) then get a sail a bit bigger.A 12.5 sail is huge you almost got to be a Gorilla to use it & if you drop its going to be hard to water start or uphaul.good luck with your endeavour of chasing light wind. To answer your question about breaking stuff yes of course it might happen!

WindmanV
VIC, 638 posts
3 Apr 2019 6:12PM
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Hello, Waggaflats,

Agree with above re trying to uphaul the sail. I used an Easy Uphaul when I had my 9.8 and 8.5m sails. Worked a treat cos I'm only a little guy (75kg/170cm)

Hope this helps.

Imax1
VIC, 1859 posts
3 Apr 2019 9:27PM
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I have tried everything to get planing early as a heavyweight. Everything .
I tried the formula with 11.5 North warp. This size sail only works with a 1 m wide short board with a sub 90 kg pilot. Otherwise it's a short , wide , sluggy door mat.
My personal opinion for over 100 kg early planing combo is 78 to 80 wide , long rocker , long board , 9 .5 ish 2 cam.

snorkel692
QLD, 221 posts
3 Apr 2019 8:59PM
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I have a 12 which I sometimes use with my Ultrasonic. Compared with a 9.4 ( usually an Overdrive so 3 cam) there isn't a huge gain in early planing but lots of extra rigging effort and time. It's worth it for Formula I'm sure, but for across the wind recreational sailing I rarely dig out the 12. That said the sessions with it are fun and challenging so you won't regret buying it; I just tend to not make the effort!

Faff
VIC, 658 posts
4 Apr 2019 5:49PM
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Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..
I have tried everything to get planing early as a heavyweight. Everything .
I tried the formula with 11.5 North warp. This size sail only works with a 1 m wide short board with a sub 90 kg pilot. Otherwise it's a short , wide , sluggy door mat.
My personal opinion for over 100 kg early planing combo is 78 to 80 wide , long rocker , long board , 9 .5 ish 2 cam.


Foil.

Waggaflats
2 posts
4 Apr 2019 6:04PM
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Thankyou for your answers all. I'm 111kg' on a starboard start 230 litre board that is 1metre wide and about 2.8 metres long so it's not so different to a formula board. According to a gear calculator I need a minimum 8.5 m sail to get along. My preference is for lighter winds so I can 'train'. I'm mostly on fresh water lakes around the Riverina but am wanting to graduate to the ocean. (Inspired by youtube video's) I'm guessing that the reference to a longer fin is about getting blown downwind. Once again thanks for your input

mathew
VIC, 1727 posts
5 Apr 2019 7:29PM
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Everyone has discussed ease of use, sizes, etc.

My suggestion - dont over-down-haul it.... there is a better than average chance the mast will snap.
That said, you will needs lots of downhaul... more than your back/shoulders/legs can manage... do yourself a favour and get some type of downhaul tool.

joe windsurf
1456 posts
5 Apr 2019 6:16PM
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actually i find downhaul varies more with sail brands than with sail size
Sailworks seems to like to be cranked
HotSailsMaui and MauiSails seemed so much easier to do !!

BSN101
WA, 1575 posts
5 Apr 2019 8:57PM
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Who know what the sail was and if the mast is correct and how old it is. Too much speculation on the variables. The guy must be able to sail ok if he's got a 12m sail and he'll be in for a hell of a time if he can't sail well. So I think that he has to give it a crack and decide if it's a keeper
omho

mark62
278 posts
5 Apr 2019 9:11PM
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Hi waggaflats. One of your question was "will anything break". Nothing should break unless you have a faulty mast, extension etc.

If your out at sea, it's well worth checking all your kit before venturing out, mast, boom, down haul rope extension. You have a problem 1 mile off shore if any of these break, so double check.

on another note, for general light wind cruising, a 12.5m will not give you any real advantage over a 9.5m. Formula racers only use them because you can point higher and go deeper around the race course. They don't actually get going earlier.

personally, I've tried dozens of boards/fins/sails to get going earlier and earlier. I tested my 9.6 against my old 11m and 12m on an SB F161. I concluded that there was no big benefit in using anything bigger than the 9.6m so sold the 11 and 12m sails.

ive recently changed my formula board for an ultrasonic, not tried it as yet (it'll get used loads this spring/summer), if it doesn't work out, i'll Go back to formula for those summer breezes.

best but of advice has be, just get out on it see how you go, you'll either love it or hate it:)

p.s I'm 101kg, so slightly lighter than you.

cammd
QLD, 2220 posts
6 Apr 2019 7:17AM
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Select to expand quote
mark62 said..


on another note, for general light wind cruising, a 12.5m will not give you any real advantage over a 9.5m. Formula racers only use them because you can point higher and go deeper around the race course. They don't actually get going earlier.




That"s not my experience, I can get going earlier on a 12 compared to a 9.5, it might only be a few knots earlier but in very lights winds 2 or 3 knots is 20 or 30% less wind.

Imax1
VIC, 1859 posts
6 Apr 2019 8:50AM
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Those huge Starboard Starts are good for learning but are far from early planing with a heavy pilot .
Sub planing they are slow and don't go upwind very well.
They stick to the water with their rounded profile and are hard work getting planing.
Now that you have the basics , get a 150 litre ish 75 to 80 wide . I guarantee you will get planing earlier on this board with a 9.5 than you would on the Start with a bigger sail.
The older longer shape XCite ride 145 or 160 are my recommendation. Or any of the older longer shapes before they went short and wide.

segler
84 posts
6 Apr 2019 11:02PM
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Bruce Peterson (Sailworks) uses the term "high rig tension" for his big sails. For anything bigger than about a 7.5, you MUST use a crank to get the correct downhaul. Correct mast, of course, in both IMCS and bend curve.

Maui Sails, on the other hand, is designed for fairly low rig tension on their "stiff top" masts. I have no trouble downhauling a TR-5 12.0 by hand. I don't know about their TR-X models that use regular cc masts.

Paducah
335 posts
6 Apr 2019 11:36PM
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Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..
Those huge Starboard Starts are good for learning but are far from early planing with a heavy pilot .
Sub planing they are slow and don't go upwind very well.
They stick to the water with their rounded profile and are hard work getting planing.
Now that you have the basics , get a 150 litre ish 75 to 80 wide . I guarantee you will get planing earlier on this board with a 9.5 than you would on the Start with a bigger sail.
The older longer shape XCite ride 145 or 160 are my recommendation. Or any of the older longer shapes before they went short and wide.


The first gen Start is an exception to this. Lovely board which was/is a lot of fun with a proper 60-70cm fin. It was an overgrown Go.



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"Huge sails" started by Waggaflats