Forums > Windsurfing General

Kode soft deck?

Reply
Created by t3wind 1 month ago, 17 Feb 2021
t3wind
10 posts
17 Feb 2021 2:54PM
Thumbs Up

Hi guys

I own a 2019 Kode FW 86 l, the fancy carbon reflex construction, bought it new exactly two years ago.

When I kneel on the area between front footstraps and mastfoot the deck flexes. I can also feel that flex on the heels as I step on it The other areas of the deck are stiff as I kneel or step. I'm on the flyweight category, 68 kg

I checked the other boards I have, all have a stiff deck all over

Do I have a soft deck here? That would be a bummer, only 60-70 sessions on the clock on this board. Can this flex be from the "reflex"? (wishful thinking) Maybe some Kode owners out there can check it and report here

Thanks

Brent in Qld
QLD, 488 posts
17 Feb 2021 5:47PM
Thumbs Up

Boards deck has probably delaminated by the sound of it, should not have notable movement. Normally it's the core letting go of the outer deck structure. Not as bad as it sounds if you get the board seen to early on. Recommend getting your local board repair pro onto it.

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
17 Feb 2021 3:53PM
Thumbs Up

The Reflex Carbon is very lightly built, sorry to say.
The sandwich is just totally insufficient...... I was pretty surprised when I cut into them
Get it done soon, it will spread.
However, as you have seen the paint falls off too, so its a very hard repair to do nicely- any time you mask and spray, the tape removal rips off the adjacent paint, so the painting gets bigger and bigger and....
However number two is that if you sail the same way a lot, the jumping side will sink and you will notice a big 'extra' concave in the bottom on the jump side. So maybe really check out the board well before blowing $300 on the deck only to find the bottom goes......

Sorry to be the bearer of that news,

t3wind
10 posts
17 Feb 2021 6:32PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks guys, I was afraid of that

This is not the only failure on this board, I actually noticed the deck flex only after starting to look with a more critical eye following a delamination found on the bottom next to the side fin, pics below. This was last week as I got out of the water after a two hours session

Guess this is one of those friday boards

I talked to the shop, they took it further with Starboard. The warranty is gone but Starboard offered to pay for the repair, delam that is, now I will bring up on the table the deck issue as well
Thanks again



Manuel7
533 posts
17 Feb 2021 9:09PM
Thumbs Up

I'm glad starboard offered to help. What are weight wise?

leto
138 posts
19 Feb 2021 8:39AM
Thumbs Up

Both issues are easy to fix if you know what you are doing.. and do them in almost unnoticeable way. Shops are good at fixing these in. a dirty way so instead of doing an arthroscopic surgery on both they will do an open one. You will see.

However, the problem here is not this but that it is a pretty new board. So now I guess I shall add Starboard Carbon Reflex to my list of boards to never buy... In this list I also have Fanatic Carbon Textreme construction (I call it crapstreme).

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
19 Feb 2021 8:58AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Manuel7 said..
I'm glad starboard offered to help. What are weight wise?


Well they offered to help with that laminate lifting at the edge of the boxes...... dunno about the soft deck yet

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
19 Feb 2021 8:59AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
leto said..
Both issues are easy to fix if you know what you are doing.. and do them in almost unnoticeable way. Shops are good at fixing these in. a dirty way so instead of doing an arthroscopic surgery on both they will do an open one. You will see.

However, the problem here is not this but that it is a pretty new board. So now I guess I shall add Starboard Carbon Reflex to my list of boards to never buy... In this list I also have Fanatic Carbon Textreme construction (I call it crapstreme).


Yup another one the Textreme had adhesion issues it seems

kuotadriver
30 posts
19 Feb 2021 2:42PM
Thumbs Up

How are the wood core boards long term?

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
19 Feb 2021 7:10PM
Thumbs Up

The end grain balsa on bottom and flax? Not good

RuaraidhK257
57 posts
19 Feb 2021 8:11PM
Thumbs Up

A friend of mine was a starboard team rider for about 5 years, in his last year with them he broke about 6 boards.

Almost all of the starboards I've had have had construction issues. Finboxes delaminating, soft spots appearing, deck pads peeling. avoid them like the plague!!

t3wind
10 posts
20 Feb 2021 3:13AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
RuaraidhK257 said..
Finboxes delaminating, soft spots appearing, deck pads peeling. avoid them like the plague!!


Wish I knew this two years ago...

Seller said find a pro shop, fix it and S will pay the bill

The shop I talked to wants, as leto guessed, to open it up. I can understand that, it's a matter of job warranty and liability but to be honest, I don't know if I would want to sail the board after such job, not because I don't trust them, it's just me. Moreover, as most of you mentioned, it might be some more complications in the future, this type of construction is weak

So, I am seriously considering writing it off and move on. I have enough boards to have fun on (ok, there are never enough )

Cheers

leto
138 posts
20 Feb 2021 4:32AM
Thumbs Up

Oh boy, it will be funny to see your board after lobotomy using some boardlady technics. lol
I can imagine what they will do.. cut entire deck out say 2x3 or 4 feet. Then pour polyurethane all around and then sand and slap it back then glass sand sand sand and then try to cover that huge blimp with some paint and deck grip.
The materials for you fix it will be around say $70 but if you do it yourself never again you will need anyones help or advice on how to fix boards plus they will last you for years to come.

What you need:
- a few small thin sheets of carbon cloth and glass cloth (ebay. for fin box delam)
- epoxy (slow curing. can also be ebay)
- some sand paper (homedepot or similar)
- a dozen or two of Disposable Dental Irrigation Syringe Curved Tip (check ebay. for soft deck injection. drill 2-3 holes at a time 3-4 inches apart then inject into one. make sure you slap some nice adhesive tape on the deck in spots before you drill and inject to avoid sticky polyurethane crap leaving any marks)
- Foam-iT! 5 Rigid Polyurethane Foam - Trial Unit (amazon) 4 or 5 lbs density. Don't use Gorilla glue it's silly advice.
- drill matching syringe tip diameter. Test drilling on some wood board to match the tip diameter.

However,
Better is to ask SB to replace the board as these kind of issues are not supposed to happen after 2 years. Push them on FB and send us the link.

kuotadriver
30 posts
20 Feb 2021 7:33AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
The end grain balsa on bottom and flax? Not good



The wood reflex from 2016. I think the flax was used in later years. Seems to have withstood quite a bit of abuse so far but I might look at a Carbon Art for next time. Does anybody know much about their carbon construction?

Gestalt
QLD, 13306 posts
20 Feb 2021 9:46AM
Thumbs Up

yep, it's not the materials that are the issue.

it's the workmanship.

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
20 Feb 2021 5:34PM
Thumbs Up

Carbon Art is tops. Definitley a good choice

t3wind - I would not write it off just yet. An injection of resin or PU won;t do, but a fully redone deck with 3mm corecell and normal lamination schedule will be fine. (not their 2mm stuff and very little fibre)
I've done half deck on one and its still going for wave use a couple years later (albeit less use now...)

leto
138 posts
20 Feb 2021 11:42PM
Thumbs Up

In my book if a board requires what Mark did it goes straight to trash can. Mark probably went for the hardest of fixes - making a board better built than production, replacing whatever he could and rebuilding areas with even slightest question in quality. Once you go this route on a Starboard you never know what's coming out maybe even Severne. lol

firiebob
WA, 3032 posts
21 Feb 2021 8:38AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
Carbon Art is tops. Definitley a good choice



+1

t3wind
10 posts
21 Feb 2021 5:55PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks Mark and leto for the comprehensive guides, much appreciated. I am a DIY fan(mostly car and round the house repairs) but I am not considering it as an option here. It's a 'do it right first time' job, whichever the option. I usually get things right on the second-third attempt, better let the pros do it, my whole experience is a few simple glass jobs.
So, most probably I will repair it at the shop and keep it as a spare

One thing is clear, I found the perfect excuse to buy a new board this year, I owe you one

Cheers

baldrick
QLD, 145 posts
21 Feb 2021 9:24PM
Thumbs Up

Hahahaha, there are two types of windsurfers, stampers and non stampers, there is nothing wrong with modern board construction only dudes who stamp there heels hard into the deck, stampers take note stamping your heels into a lightweight carbon deck doesn't make you look rad.
Plenty of polyester glass boards still exist from the Eighties with perfectly smooth gybing areas because the riders are skilled riders who don't jump up and down on them.
Bend your knees dudes, you know who you are!

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
21 Feb 2021 7:30PM
Thumbs Up

^^^^ No, it is built a LOT lighter.

baldrick
QLD, 145 posts
21 Feb 2021 10:33PM
Thumbs Up

^^^^ Stamper alert (well known) repairs lots of his own boards constantly

baldrick
QLD, 145 posts
21 Feb 2021 10:59PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
leto said..
Both issues are easy to fix if you know what you are doing.. and do them in almost unnoticeable way. Shops are good at fixing these in. a dirty way so instead of doing an arthroscopic surgery on both they will do an open one. You will see.

However, the problem here is not this but that it is a pretty new board. So now I guess I shall add Starboard Carbon Reflex to my list of boards to never buy... In this list I also have Fanatic Carbon Textreme construction (I call it crapstreme).


Good old leto....attacking windsurfing shops and their owners and windsurfing brands....so much can be worked out with your local windsurf shop or dealer if they know their onions, I know there are only a couple in oz

leto
138 posts
22 Feb 2021 3:07AM
Thumbs Up

This forum is great because people here can critique whatever they want. I try to give functional commentary. If you get offended, you don't have to read them but read unbiased peachy mag reviews which sound alike.

Faff
VIC, 867 posts
22 Feb 2021 7:37AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
baldrick said..
Hahahaha, there are two types of windsurfers, stampers and non stampers, there is nothing wrong with modern board construction only dudes who stamp there heels hard into the deck, stampers take note stamping your heels into a lightweight carbon deck doesn't make you look rad.
Plenty of polyester glass boards still exist from the Eighties with perfectly smooth gybing areas because the riders are skilled riders who don't jump up and down on them.
Bend your knees dudes, you know who you are!


This probably applies to 100 kg guys who do 10,000 km on slalom boards, not lightweights on freewaves.

John340
QLD, 2246 posts
22 Feb 2021 6:44AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
baldrick said..
Hahahaha, there are two types of windsurfers, stampers and non stampers, there is nothing wrong with modern board construction only dudes who stamp there heels hard into the deck, stampers take note stamping your heels into a lightweight carbon deck doesn't make you look rad.
Plenty of polyester glass boards still exist from the Eighties with perfectly smooth gybing areas because the riders are skilled riders who don't jump up and down on them.
Bend your knees dudes, you know who you are!




Claptrap, if all it takes for a 68kg guy to delaminate a wave board is stamping, then the design and or manufacture is not fit for purpose.

Imax1
QLD, 3283 posts
22 Feb 2021 7:03AM
Thumbs Up

Apart for riders who throw their boards around , I think some boards are built too light . Shorter life for the cost of brochure figures . A slightly heavier board will make no difference to the average rider . My boards are heavier than most and I can't tell any performance difference . I have a couple super light carbon boards to compare to and don't like either .
Im 115 kg , add 10 kg for a board , 5 kg for rig , 5 kg for water clinging to everything , that's 135 kg total . What's a couple kg less going to do for me ? I'm mainly blasting over chop like most people. I can see that people who do flips and jips need lighter boards .

baldrick
QLD, 145 posts
22 Feb 2021 6:11PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
John340 said..

baldrick said..
Hahahaha, there are two types of windsurfers, stampers and non stampers, there is nothing wrong with modern board construction only dudes who stamp there heels hard into the deck, stampers take note stamping your heels into a lightweight carbon deck doesn't make you look rad.
Plenty of polyester glass boards still exist from the Eighties with perfectly smooth gybing areas because the riders are skilled riders who don't jump up and down on them.
Bend your knees dudes, you know who you are!





Claptrap, if all it takes for a 68kg guy to delaminate a wave board is stamping, then the design and or manufacture is not fit for purpose.


Lol, give me your strongest board and let me jump up and down on it for a few minutes, I guarantee I can cave the gybing area in. The truth is that there are stampers and there are dudes who take care of their boards. We are not talking about under the foot strap areas here, just the gybing area which spreads....

Mark _australia
WA, 20354 posts
23 Feb 2021 2:25AM
Thumbs Up

^^^ Yeah and that is irrelevant when the board in question here has 2mm PVC foam and one layer of 6oz carbon, where others have 3mm and multiple layers. I've seen it. It's insufficient and it fails. You should go work warranty dept for Starboard, they'd love you.

Put a board in the water and stomp up and down on the deck and it should fail - you reckon?

BTW don't appreciate your statement that I have to fix my own boards constantly - my customs last 3x as long as factory crap and there's not one unhappy customer yet.

Overner
50 posts
23 Feb 2021 2:50AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
^^^ Yeah and that is irrelevant when the board in question here has 2mm PVC foam and one layer of 6oz carbon, where others have 3mm and multiple layers. I've seen it. It's insufficient and it fails. You should go work warranty dept for Starboard, they'd love you.

Put a board in the water and stomp up and down on the deck and it should fail - you reckon?

BTW don't appreciate your statement that I have to fix my own boards constantly - my customs last 3x as long as factory crap and there's not one unhappy customer yet.


I have had a couple of the carbons through my shed.

One friend's was a heal area replacement after 6 sessions of pushloops.

The other has been in twice for the same repair. My bad. I repaired one area that had delaminated between mast foot and front strap and he then landed a jump flat and it creased at the edge of my repair nearer the foot straps. I clearly either made the repair too stiff, or I didn't scarf enough to spread the change in construction. Either way 2mm pvc should not be found on a wave board let alone between the mast foot and front straps.

They are very light though!!! 5.5 kgs for the first of the two I repaired. My lightest home built board is circa 6.5 kgs for an 80 litre board.

t3wind
10 posts
Wednesday , 7 Apr 2021 2:50AM
Thumbs Up

Thought on giving an update. I decided to repair it, pics below

















Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Kode soft deck?" started by t3wind