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Lifejackets mandatory open water

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Created by EugeneZA > 9 months ago, 3 Jul 2016
EugeneZA
NSW, 92 posts
4 Jul 2016 12:27AM
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New laws in place that impacts both windsurfers and kiters for NSW. It is compulsory to wear a life jacket or PFD in open waters (any beach really that is not landlocked).Is this also in other states?

Article below.

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/about/news-events/news/ministerial/2016/160701-slashing-red-tape-on-the-water.html


www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC-B-KiteWindsurfingSafetyEquipC.pdf





Magic Ride
719 posts
4 Jul 2016 12:56AM
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Based on the United States Windsurfing Association, in Hood River Or, There are only 7 states in the United States that require windsurfers to wear PFDs, or to have the PFD attached to their board. New Mexico, Kentucky, New York, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Louisiana and Alabama. All the other states are exempt from that requirement.

mr love
VIC, 1714 posts
4 Jul 2016 6:37AM
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In Victoria Windsurfers and Kitesurfers exempt if you are within 400 meters of shore.

Faff
VIC, 643 posts
4 Jul 2016 6:38AM
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I don't understand. Doesn't a wetsuit + harness give plenty of flotation especially in salt water?

Magic Ride
719 posts
4 Jul 2016 5:08AM
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Yes, you can float just fine in a wetsuit and harness, but the requirement is a certified type PFD where ever required.

powersloshin
NSW, 999 posts
4 Jul 2016 7:21AM
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These words are very ambiguous:

'Life jackets are compulsory for people on board canoes, kiteboards, kayaks, sailboards or watercraft under 4.8 metres long when travelling alone, at night or when in open or alpine waterways'

And this is absurd, 60 knots is about 110 kmh !
.... speed limit of 60 knots has been introduced for vessels towing a person under 18 years old....'

Subsonic
WA, 1551 posts
4 Jul 2016 6:04AM
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^^^ I would have to assume they meant 60 kph, silly mistake all the same.

WA got these rules brought in last winter, looks like they are bringing all the states into line with each other...

Haggar
QLD, 1596 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:25AM
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Well its a good idea to wear a PFD anyway

Subsonic
WA, 1551 posts
4 Jul 2016 7:23AM
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Yep, unless you're in the surf.

That added floatation when trying to get the sail airborne for a water start makes a hell of a difference. Not to mention that it might actually help save your life if things go backside up one day.

Mastbender
1854 posts
4 Jul 2016 7:33AM
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They tried that at a county owned lake in California about 30 years ago where windsurfing is popular, they ended up loosing a bunch of user fees because of that, mostly windsurfers. There were other places to sail, so they took a financial hit, it only lasted two seasons, so they dropped it, for the windsurfers.

We found a way to make the best of it at the time though. We bought cheap water skiing vests (they qualified), and removed the flotation pads that were located under the arms, down the sides. We removed those pads from the inside, so from the outside, the vest looked perfectly normal, but didn't feel bulky at all.
A bit less float, but so what, is was way more better.

Dean 424
NSW, 439 posts
4 Jul 2016 9:47AM
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I don't normally mind wearing a jacket anyway. Went over the front a while back at reasonable speed a couple of years back and could see the mast rapidly coming up, somehow managed to turn myself around midair and tucked my head in taking the hit on the back/shoulder. The jacket provided the padding needed, so no injury done all good. Also if I broke something my plan is attach the jacket to the rig and paddle the board in.

kato
VIC, 2423 posts
4 Jul 2016 12:34PM
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Select to expand quote
EugeneZA said...
New laws in place that impacts both windsurfers and kiters for NSW. It is compulsory to wear a life jacket or PFD in open waters (any beach really that is not landlocked).Is this also in other states?

Article below.

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/about/news-events/news/ministerial/2016/160701-slashing-red-tape-on-the-water.html


www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC-B-KiteWindsurfingSafetyEquipC.pdf








Just another dumb idea by the safety police. I've yet to hear a valid argument as to why they're safer. Buoyancy vests will not stop you drowning when knocked out.....a helmet will. You float really well in a wetty and can swim at speed and duck under stuff, in a vest..... No. Will they work as an impact vest..... Yes but so does an impact vest.
I challenge anyone to give me a great reason for using one!!!!!!

Mark (AUS-746)
QLD, 66 posts
4 Jul 2016 2:57PM
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Wearing a good fitting PFD is better than not wearing one at all. It may not always save your life, but you increase the probability of survival, or giving your rescuers valuable minutes to save you. I concur with the point regarding helmets - they also increase your probability of surviving and/ or preventing unconsciousness. There is now a plethora of PFD and helmet options that suit the most discerning windsurfer - gone are the days where personal safety apparatus were uncomfortable, impractical or unfashionable. I wear a Forward WIP which are very compact and comfortable.

mineral1
WA, 4454 posts
4 Jul 2016 1:19PM
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Select to expand quote
Mark (AUS-746) said..
Wearing a good fitting PFD is better than not wearing one at all. It may not always save your life, but you increase the probability of survival, or giving your rescuers valuable minutes to save you. I concur with the point regarding helmets - they also increase your probability of surviving and/ or preventing unconsciousness. There is now a plethora of PFD and helmet options that suit the most discerning windsurfer - gone are the days where personal safety apparatus were uncomfortable, impractical or unfashionable. I wear a Forward WIP which are very compact and comfortable.


Zackly
Wear one,!!!! even if you feel its not pleasant to look at and may look a tad bulky.
To coin an old saying.
When you are dead, the only person who wont know you are dead is you, because you are dead.
All the others, being friends, and just people who know you, have to suffer the loss. The worst is family, who suffer for a long time because of your untimely death.

kato
VIC, 2423 posts
4 Jul 2016 3:56PM
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Still drown in a buoyancy vest

Mr Milk
NSW, 1447 posts
4 Jul 2016 3:57PM
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When I was a slow learner at sailboarding, I ended up in the water underneath the sail hundreds of times. Swimming down and out away from the sail has got to be harder in a life jacket.

Chris 249
NSW, 1728 posts
4 Jul 2016 4:45PM
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What the hell? They tried to get this in a few years ago and the Windsurfer Class Association and WNSW put in a submission to stop it, because of the problems of duck-diving when wavesailing. The kiters did the same.

The NSW government then admitted (officially and in writing) that wavesailors and kiters would be exempt from being required to wear PFDs, because (as they said) we had put together logical cases that it would be dangerous.

Why and how did they put this through again, and did they inform the stakeholders?

Mr Milk
NSW, 1447 posts
4 Jul 2016 5:24PM
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Select to expand quote
mineral1 said..

When you are dead, the only person who wont know you are dead is you, because you are dead.
All the others, being friends, and just people who know you, have to suffer the loss. The worst is family, who suffer for a long time because of your untimely death.



What a pleasant family you must enjoy. When I go, the biggest issue will be about who gets my money.

DunkO
NSW, 988 posts
4 Jul 2016 5:59PM
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To all those who say how you should be wearing one, that's great its your choice, wear one... but I'd like the choice not to thanks.







Chris 249
NSW, 1728 posts
4 Jul 2016 6:18PM
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I wear one most of the time, but don't want one if I'm trying to duck-dive in mast high waves.

Belly25
NSW, 76 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:01PM
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I got "pulled over" by a Waterways boat a year or so ago while out sailing on Lake Macquarie. No one else out, not even the yachties were out because it was blowing 20+ And was a week day. Small board/and rig so ended up in the water when they stopped me. I was wearing a floatation aid.
They asked if it was approved, even though the new laws hadn't come into place for water craft under 4.3 metres. They were even dumb enough to stop to leeward of me so I ended up drifting into the side of their boat (with motors running). Pretty pissed off by this stage but now also s..t scared.
I ended up sitting on by board, surf style while they then went on to inform me of the new laws coming in, even though I was plainly wearing a floatation aid. Before they left I asked them if the new laws would apply to surf life savers. They looked at me like I was an idiot and responded that surf life savers would be exempt. I suggested that this was a double standard. They said take it upwith the authorities.
My question still remains. Will surf life savers, surfers, people doing SUP yoga (yes there is such a thing and is pretty popular up here in summer ) etc have to wear one?
I had a friend in high school nearly drown while sailing a catameran. He was on a trapeze line when we capsized, couldn't get unhooked because his PFDs floatation I had to dive down an yank him off the hook. Like all ideas around safety, there is often a conflicting contradicting point of view.


Piv
WA, 368 posts
4 Jul 2016 6:03PM
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Has anyone in australia ever drowned windsurfing? Ive never heard of it. If they have, would a pfd have helped? I dont really care, when i used to wave sail, a wetsuit was the ideal thing. Long coast runs its no drama wearing a pfd. Most of my old age sailing is on the river. Too hot for a wetsuit but with big cammed sails i wear a pfd to just help get em out of the water. i think the old 400m beyond the shore rule made sense. I think its a bad idea to wear a pfd in waves. Surfers dont have to and there is way less risk windsutrfing than surfing.

Belly25
NSW, 76 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:12PM
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I think my family might be be a bit upset, not too sure though ...haha but I know they would be happy that I went out doing one of the things that I love.

Mobydisc
NSW, 8479 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:18PM
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All in the name of cutting red tape. Typical NSW government doublespeak. If one wants to wear a life jacket or whatever then it should be up to you, your family or perhaps the race organisers you choose to participate with. It should not be forced on you by the government with the threat of penalty if one fails to comply. All in the name of cutting red tape. The irony is lost on them I'm sure.

Mr Milk
NSW, 1447 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:22PM
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Select to expand quote
Piv said..
Has anyone in australia ever drowned windsurfing? Ive never heard of it.


Yes. Last year in WA.

www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/windsurfer-44-found-dead-after-overnight-search-at-prevelly-break/news-story/80f16e4bc18cf4d070e39f55e8deda54

DunkO
NSW, 988 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:26PM
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In the name of safety the people enforcing this rule should be forced to wear one of these,



DunkO
NSW, 988 posts
4 Jul 2016 8:30PM
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In the very near future....

"Bye Hun,

Just off for a quick sail."





tbwonder
NSW, 162 posts
4 Jul 2016 10:21PM
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The RMS website says (4th July 16)
Sailboarding: On enclosed and alpine waters when more than 400 m from shore: Level 100+, 50 or 50S
On open waters when more than 400 m from shore: Level 100+ or 50.
What if anything has changed?

Or have the RMS not bothered to update their own website with the rule changes?

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6485 posts
5 Jul 2016 10:46AM
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Select to expand quote
DunkO said..
In the very near future....

"Bye Hun,

Just off for a quick sail."







Mm maybe I should wear this bushwalking it may have prevented my broken ankle..

kato
VIC, 2423 posts
5 Jul 2016 3:45PM
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Looks like kites only have to wear a harness cos they float????

SUPs are the same as windsurfers in Vic and have to wear a 100+ when over 400m from shore

And inflatables are acceptable as they are level 100+

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment/lifejackets.html

www.wearalifejacket.vic.gov.au/lifejacket-laws

Makes it all confusing when it comes to "what do you want a life jacket to do for you"

Maybe its time for some real safety leadership instead of this bubble wrap approach.

HarryBech
SA, 7 posts
5 Jul 2016 3:29PM
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Required in SA...I was fined so wore one &got hammered in a 4m swell,couldn't duck dive &broke neck ,losing consciousness only just survived...not worth complying ?



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"Lifejackets mandatory open water" started by EugeneZA