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Mach3 Downhaul

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Created by mikey100 A week ago, 24 Jun 2020
mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
24 Jun 2020 7:13PM
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Your opinions...
As these sails have no downhaul indication marks at the top of sail (as Duotone etc does) I am interested in what downhaul you are putting on your 2020 Severne Mach3 Race sails when rigged on Apex Pro masts and Severne mast extension set to recommendation on foot of sail. Local recommendations are a pulley gap of 3cm for first few sails, then 2cm, then block to block when fully stretched. What do you do?
Cheers.

ratz
WA, 394 posts
24 Jun 2020 8:58PM
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mikey100 said..
Your opinions...
As these sails have no downhaul indication marks at the top of sail (as Duotone etc does) I am interested in what downhaul you are putting on your 2020 Severne Mach3 Race sails when rigged on Apex Pro masts and Severne mast extension set to recommendation on foot of sail. Local recommendations are a pulley gap of 3cm for first few sails, then 2cm, then block to block when fully stretched. What do you do?
Cheers.


dream about being able to afford mach 3s....
anybody want to buy a kidney?

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
25 Jun 2020 7:15AM
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ratz said..


mikey100 said..
Your opinions...
As these sails have no downhaul indication marks at the top of sail (as Duotone etc does) I am interested in what downhaul you are putting on your 2020 Severne Mach3 Race sails when rigged on Apex Pro masts and Severne mast extension set to recommendation on foot of sail. Local recommendations are a pulley gap of 3cm for first few sails, then 2cm, then block to block when fully stretched. What do you do?
Cheers.




dream about being able to afford mach 3s....
anybody want to buy a kidney?



Me... had to sell one of mine to get them.

Dezza
NSW, 713 posts
25 Jun 2020 7:41AM
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Any particular size Mach 3 Mikey? I have the 7.0 and rigging on an 430 apex sdm and extension set to 30, leaving about 1cm gap to pulley at the moment. The extension suggestion on sail is 32cm but the sailbag says 30cm so I've been playing with both, but think 30 is about right. I have the smaller sizes 6.2/5.5 rigged on rdms, the extension lengths printed on sail seem right to me, with 1cm or less pulley block gap

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7031 posts
25 Jun 2020 9:14AM
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Dezza said..
Any particular size Mach 3 Mikey? I have the 7.0 and rigging on an 430 apex sdm and extension set to 30, leaving about 1cm gap to pulley at the moment. The extension suggestion on sail is 32cm but the sailbag says 30cm so I've been playing with both, but think 30 is about right. I have the smaller sizes 6.2/5.5 rigged on rdms, the extension lengths printed on sail seem right to me, with 1cm or less pulley block gap


I only ever look at the specs on the sail with my Severnes. I'll have to check the bag as well.
I thought they'd be the same..

Dezza
NSW, 713 posts
25 Jun 2020 11:46AM
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It's not an issue, they're just a suggested ext length, the Mach 3s are a beautiful sail to use, have had some great fun on the 7.0 and 6.2 at primbee so far this winter

Rob11
233 posts
25 Jun 2020 11:01AM
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mikey100 said..
Local recommendations are a pulley gap of 3cm for first few sails, then 2cm, then block to block when fully stretched. What do you do?
Cheers.


3cm stretch, that's huge isn't it?
What are they made of to be that noddle like?

Gestalt
QLD, 12761 posts
25 Jun 2020 1:41PM
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I've not had a race sail yet that didnt take 5-6 sessions to stretch in. Isn't a brand specific thing.

Wave sails too stretch a little.

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
25 Jun 2020 3:18PM
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Dezza said..
Any particular size Mach 3 Mikey? I have the 7.0 and rigging on an 430 apex sdm and extension set to 30, leaving about 1cm gap to pulley at the moment. The extension suggestion on sail is 32cm but the sailbag says 30cm so I've been playing with both, but think 30 is about right. I have the smaller sizes 6.2/5.5 rigged on rdms, the extension lengths printed on sail seem right to me, with 1cm or less pulley block gap


Hi. Have been setting the extension on the 7m at 32, as sail says (yep, bag says 30) and am leaving a gap of app 3cm. At 2cm it feels more comfortable, but a lot of fluttering going on up top. Did 33+ with the 7m on a free ride board the other day, but not sure if I am overhauling or underhauling for best performance. I usually go by look, but heard somewhere that the M3s have more twist, thus my interest in how others are downhaul game.

Dezza
NSW, 713 posts
25 Jun 2020 4:23PM
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Hi Mikey, we're close on the downhaul then, with the 32+2cm gap, it might be worth trying the 30 +1cm next outing and see what you think. That 7m is fast

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
25 Jun 2020 8:29PM
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Dezza said..
Hi Mikey, we're close on the downhaul then, with the 32+2cm gap, it might be worth trying the 30 +1cm next outing and see what you think. That 7m is fast


Ok. Will try. Just frustrating when sail and bag have different settings. Thanks.

John340
QLD, 2059 posts
26 Jun 2020 7:36AM
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The Severne web page spec for luff is 462. So the 32 on the sail is correct

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
26 Jun 2020 9:29AM
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John340 said..
The Severne web page spec for luff is 462. So the 32 on the sail is correct


That's what I thought, but if I have a 3cm pulley gap, could I try 30 with a 1 cm gap? Would give same luff length. ??

Ben1973
399 posts
26 Jun 2020 8:51AM
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2 to 3 cm between pulleys is what I've found works, pulley to pulley is just to twitchy and doesn't hold the board down. Also with 2 -3 the tack strap lines up perfectly with the slot in the extension. If you did pulley to pulley it would be pulling the foot up and back.
believe the print on the sail not the bag.

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
26 Jun 2020 4:36PM
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Thanks for your input also Ben.

Ben1973
399 posts
27 Jun 2020 9:02AM
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Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
28 Jun 2020 9:38AM
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Ben1973 said..
Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.


Yep. Can see that happening as foot of my sails already on deck.

Basher
224 posts
28 Jun 2020 8:10AM
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mikey100 said..
Your opinions...
As these sails have no downhaul indication marks at the top of sail (as Duotone etc does) I am interested in what downhaul you are putting on your 2020 Severne Mach3 Race sails when rigged on Apex Pro masts and Severne mast extension set to recommendation on foot of sail. Local recommendations are a pulley gap of 3cm for first few sails, then 2cm, then block to block when fully stretched. What do you do?
Cheers.


This is a really deep question and it shows how people want absolute answers in an uncertain world.

Using the sail makers' settings is a good starting point for any rig, but that too assumes you have their own brand mast, their boom and the extension they used when they wrote the settings on that sail.
The reality of all rigging is slightly more individual - in that every different sailor of different body weight and with different tuning choices on a different board will in fact require his own individual sail downhaul setting before perfection can be achieved.

So the chaos out there is real, and we just have to live with that. Experimentation with downhaul settings is fine. What works for one sailor is however not generally transferrable to another.

If the problem persists, then see a psychiatrist.

Basher
224 posts
28 Jun 2020 8:11AM
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mikey100 said..

Ben1973 said..
Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.



Yep. Can see that happening as foot of my sails already on deck.


Mast foot too far forwards? This is a stance issue.

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
28 Jun 2020 1:28PM
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Basher said..

mikey100 said..


Ben1973 said..
Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.




Yep. Can see that happening as foot of my sails already on deck.



Mast foot too far forwards? This is a stance issue.


But mast foot forward equals downward pressure on front of board I thought. Moving it backwards would necessitate a lowering of boom to keep required amount of mast base pressure, again with it own issues. The Mach3 sails have an extra section of reinforcement along the foot which aligns approximately with the back foot; have heard it said that this was to save your toenails when the sail's foot was on the deck, where it was designed to go. This to me indicated with foot in required position, just on on deck, correct Mast base position is where board is just flying across water with no porpoising, banging or pushing and feet don't feel like they are wanting to be pulled out of the straps. Or have I got it all wrong...

Subsonic
WA, 2044 posts
28 Jun 2020 2:30PM
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mikey100 said..


Basher said..



mikey100 said..




Ben1973 said..
Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.






Yep. Can see that happening as foot of my sails already on deck.





Mast foot too far forwards? This is a stance issue.




But mast foot forward equals downward pressure on front of board I thought. Moving it backwards would necessitate a lowering of boom to keep required amount of mast base pressure, again with it own issues. The Mach3 sails have an extra section of reinforcement along the foot which aligns approximately with the back foot; have heard it said that this was to save your toenails when the sail's foot was on the deck, where it was designed to go. This to me indicated with foot in required position, just on on deck, correct Mast base position is where board is just flying across water with no porpoising, banging or pushing and feet don't feel like they are wanting to be pulled out of the straps. Or have I got it all wrong...



I wouldn't read too far into where they've placed the "foot protector" It'll be an approx position not an indication for mast foot position.

if the mast foot is draggy on the deck of the board, it can be poor stance as Mr Basher said. It can also be an indication that your boom is too high, but you'll be feeling a lot of front arm pressure that you can't adjust out if thats the case.


As Basher said downhaul setting is a bit of a loaded question. different people will find different settings that work. I've got a mach 2 7.8m, the "correct" downhaul position i've discovered, is set to the recommended 20, but with a bit less than 2cm let off. I've tried rigging it at 18 but its not enough (feels twitchy as). Downhauled to the full 20 and the sail is ragging through the top panels and feels dumpy/powerless. Set at the magic spot, and its responsive without being twitchy. Go figure...

mikey100
QLD, 698 posts
28 Jun 2020 6:59PM
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Subsonic said..

mikey100 said..



Basher said..




mikey100 said..





Ben1973 said..
Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.







Yep. Can see that happening as foot of my sails already on deck.






Mast foot too far forwards? This is a stance issue.





But mast foot forward equals downward pressure on front of board I thought. Moving it backwards would necessitate a lowering of boom to keep required amount of mast base pressure, again with it own issues. The Mach3 sails have an extra section of reinforcement along the foot which aligns approximately with the back foot; have heard it said that this was to save your toenails when the sail's foot was on the deck, where it was designed to go. This to me indicated with foot in required position, just on on deck, correct Mast base position is where board is just flying across water with no porpoising, banging or pushing and feet don't feel like they are wanting to be pulled out of the straps. Or have I got it all wrong...




I wouldn't read too far into where they've placed the "foot protector" It'll be an approx position not an indication for mast foot position.

if the mast foot is draggy on the deck of the board, it can be poor stance as Mr Basher said. It can also be an indication that your boom is too high, but you'll be feeling a lot of front arm pressure that you can't adjust out if thats the case.


As Basher said downhaul setting is a bit of a loaded question. different people will find different settings that work. I've got a mach 2 7.8m, the "correct" downhaul position i've discovered, is set to the recommended 20, but with a bit less than 2cm let off. I've tried rigging it at 18 but its not enough (feels twitchy as). Downhauled to the full 20 and the sail is ragging through the top panels and feels dumpy/powerless. Set at the magic spot, and its responsive without being twitchy. Go figure...


Thanks Subsonic. I have never looked at the 'foot protector' as a consideration when rigging; what I had been referring to in my previous comments was the actual 'foot' of the sail and how it can actually lay on the deck- 'closing the gap' I think I have heard it referred as. Your 'a little less than 2cm' seems to fit with what mate's with Mach3s have recommended; I was just interested in how others are down hauling this breed of sails. Cheers all...

Ben1973
399 posts
29 Jun 2020 7:19AM
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Basher said..

mikey100 said..


Ben1973 said..
Also tried the shorten8ng the extension to get pulley to pulley and found the foot just to low and caught on everything.




Yep. Can see that happening as foot of my sails already on deck.



Mast foot too far forwards? This is a stance issue.


Not a stance issue or mast foot position problem, just a very low foot. More of a issue when water starting and when up hauling.



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"Mach3 Downhaul" started by mikey100