Forums > Windsurfing General

Mast base position for freestyle board for freeriding?

Reply
Created by thedoor Saturday, 23 May 2020
thedoor
311 posts
Saturday , 23 May 2020 6:31AM
Thumbs Up

During the guy crip footstrap video (which is damn good by the way) he said something about mast base position and I realized that I do not have a good sense of the impact of mast base position for windsurfing. For foiling it is very obvious when your mast base is in the wrong position, but normally for windsuring I just put it in the mid position.

My kid was sailing on his 100L skate yesterday (green one) and he was a bit underpowered, but struggled at times to plane and I started to wonder about how to tweak his gear, esp the mast base. Are there general principles for mast base placement eg forward for easier planning?

Basher
205 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 5:04AM
Thumbs Up

I had better watch what Guy has to say before commenting. I guess I'll get around to that - and hopefully we'll agree. .

But the general principle of mast foot position is the way in which it sets up your body sailing 'stance' . Stance itself is a function of the three fixed (but adjustable) points of mast foot, boom height, and footstrap position.

Stance determines how the body links the power of the rig to the board, and improving your stance helps you sail better or faster, or can solve your gybing issues etc.

Most beginners on a windsurf board set the mast foot way too forward, which means the mast is raked back and that usually means the sailor weights the board tail too much.
Most pro sailors use the mast track as a tuning device to determine stance but also to control the proximity of rig drive to the fin position. So you might shoot the mast foot back to help early planing, but then you might shift the mast foot forwards when over powered.

On topic, if your son is underpowered on a freestyle board then you might 1) ease the downhaul of the sail to tighten the leech. 2) Try a bigger sail. 3) Shift the mast foot back if it's in the front half of the track - it should be in the rear half. 4) If others of the same weight are planing on the same rig size and he is not, then let him watch them.

Manuel7
373 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 5:20AM
Thumbs Up

windsurfing.lepicture.com/tips-and-tricks/

Under technique, mast foot position.

Usually bigger sails more forward, mid range middle, small sails back. I find about 1cm increment matches one sail size.

LeeD
1422 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 9:15AM
Thumbs Up

My '13 Skate 110 gets base way forward for powered up free riding and just back of center for low powered spin tricks with a much smaller fin.

MarkSSC
QLD, 395 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 12:07PM
Thumbs Up

I ride a freestyle board and can relate to the underpowered problem. At the same time, I have seen an expert rider sail a freestyle rig with a small sail just as fast as some of the larger rigs. I think the problem is more about technique than set up. Having experimented with all sorts of mast base positions for conditions and sail size, nothing really solves the problem of unwanted dredging. One answer is to change boards to match the conditions or what you want to do i.e. blasting or tricks. It is a subtle art to perfect technique, one day you have it and the next day you don't.

Gestalt
QLD, 12658 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 2:19PM
Thumbs Up

How old is your kid and what size sail in how much wind.

thedoor
311 posts
Monday , 25 May 2020 3:03AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..
How old is your kid and what size sail in how much wind.


He is 19 and about 70 kg. He was using a 4.7 in about 15 -20 knots on 100L board.

thedoor
311 posts
Monday , 25 May 2020 3:26AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Basher said..
I had better watch what Guy has to say before commenting. I guess I'll get around to that - and hopefully we'll agree. .

But the general principle of mast foot position is the way in which it sets up your body sailing 'stance' . Stance itself is a function of the three fixed (but adjustable) points of mast foot, boom height, and footstrap position.

Stance determines how the body links the power of the rig to the board, and improving your stance helps you sail better or faster, or can solve your gybing issues etc.

Most beginners on a windsurf board set the mast foot way too forward, which means the mast is raked back and that usually means the sailor weights the board tail too much.
Most pro sailors use the mast track as a tuning device to determine stance but also to control the proximity of rig drive to the fin position. So you might shoot the mast foot back to help early planing, but then you might shift the mast foot forwards when over powered.

On topic, if your son is underpowered on a freestyle board then you might 1) ease the downhaul of the sail to tighten the leech. 2) Try a bigger sail. 3) Shift the mast foot back if it's in the front half of the track - it should be in the rear half. 4) If others of the same weight are planing on the same rig size and he is not, then let him watch them.


He reported rounding up into the wind when he did start planning, so maybe this could indicate the mast foot was too far forward.

I watched that video again and could not seem to find the bit about the mast foot so maybe I imagined it.

Basher
205 posts
Monday , 25 May 2020 5:14AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..



He reported rounding up into the wind when he did start planning, so maybe this could indicate the mast foot was too far forward.

I watched that video again and could not seem to find the bit about the mast foot so maybe I imagined it.



That sounds like the problem any newby has when starting out.

If this is indeed his first kit then get him to put the mast foot in the middle of the track. Set the front footsteps as far forwards are they can go. And raise the boom to be at shoulder height when hooked in.
You don't need a big fin on a freestyle board but for beginners a 22cms one helps.

The key to not rounding up into wind when starting out is to apply what we call mast foot pressure. That means to get the rig drive to work more through the mast foot whilst trying to unweight your feet. Lean forwards and hang off the boom more, whilst looking towards where you want to go.

70kgs is average for a 19 year old but a 4.7 should work on a freestyle board in 20knots. Freeride sailors will be on much bigger sails in that wind strength.
The freestyle sail is usually set with only light downhaul - just enough to open the top batten but keeping a relatively tight leech.

Madge
NSW, 229 posts
Monday , 25 May 2020 8:00AM
Thumbs Up

When he gets to the point of it feeling nearly right, put a few marks on the deck with a marker pen, then adjust 1cm each way from that point, then if it doesn't feel right he can go back to the nearly right point which will be marked on the deck and go 1cm the other way. I'd start with it just back from middle if he's light.

Gestalt
QLD, 12658 posts
Monday , 25 May 2020 8:19AM
Thumbs Up

i agree with Basher comments and would add.

when starting out there are 3 big issues that are very common.

1. not hanging off the boom. ie. standing too upright loading up the tail of the board and sinking it.
2. not keeping your feet along the centerline of the board when first getting going. ie. standing out on the rail and sinking the rail which stalls your speed and turns you up into the wind.
3. holding the boom too close to the mast with your front hand. that stalls the power.

when you are first trying to get planning don't hook in. do some runs unhooked pumping runs to get get the board going. focus on feet being along the centerline of the board and only move to the straps once up and running.

once that is feeling good then introduce the harness and straps but remember to keep the rig upright and not raked back. he may need to move his harness lines back and remember to not choke the sail by putting front hand too close to the mast. front hand should be near the front harness line position.

on freestyle gear in light winds you need to run a higher boom. that can make a significant difference to early planing as well.

boardsurfr
WA, 1018 posts
Monday , 25 May 2020 9:16AM
Thumbs Up

I use a freestyle board 90% of the time when freeriding (Skate 110). Mast foot is usually in the center, and I prefer the boom relatively low (perhaps 10 cm lower than on any slalom or speed gear, and 15 cm lower than when foiling). With straps wide and pretty far to the front (1st or 2nd hole), I often get into the straps before planing.

I also prefer larger fins when freeriding the Skate. My go-to fin in decent wind is a 26 cm weedie; when it's light, I go to 29-30 cm weedies. There's no reason to use the small fins that the boards come with unless you're working on Vulcans, Flakas, etc. The "rounding up into the wind" may well be a sign that the fin is a bit small. The spinout behavior of the standard fins on the Skates can be quite a bit different from a large pointer fin - more of a slow drift than a sudden letting go, especially when using the rail a bit to go upwind.

thedoor
311 posts
Yesterday , 25 May 2020 1:47PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks I will pass on those tips. He is not exactly a newbie, but is a bit out of practice.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Mast base position for freestyle board for freeriding?" started by thedoor