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Sail advise

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Created by Whoops A week ago, 12 Oct 2019
Whoops
2 posts
12 Oct 2019 10:42PM
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Hi all,

Looking for some sail advice.
My current setup : - Simmer Blacktips : 4.2/ 4.7 / 5.3/5.9 and Simmer Vmax 6.6 , Tabou 3s 106 and Starboard Ignite 103.
Masts: Simmer SX10 RDM
Rider: 82 kg
The Tabou is used mainly for bumpy rides on Europe's North Sea and lakes ,the Ignite for freeride/freestyle on salt lakes near the coast.
I'm looking for a sail that gives me early planing and keeps me going throug lulls+ has freestyle abiltiy.
The Blacktips are fine at sea but on lakes its almost always gusty here and I lack some power and stability .

I was impressed with what I found about the Sailworks Revo, 5 battens wave and a very good freestyle abiltiy+ nice build quality.
Only minus : no active dealers in Europe as far as I can tell. And the mast is a bit more CC than the Simmers Flextop.

So in short: looking for a great allrounder, early planing wave/freeride sail, with freestyle ability that goes on Simmer masts.

Thx!

LeeD
803 posts
13 Oct 2019 1:41AM
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The eternal search for the holy grail continues.
I've owned 5 Revolutions.
Tuning for the wind is the answer, and knowing gusty winds is just that.
A slightly bigger board and fin combo helps some.
Non planing tricks fill out some.
But you're dealing with gusty winds.

Faff
VIC, 681 posts
13 Oct 2019 9:45AM
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Wizards

Gestalt
QLD, 12148 posts
13 Oct 2019 10:33AM
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goya do a world class freestyle sail and I'm fairly certain goya and simmer masts are compatible.

Gestalt
QLD, 12148 posts
13 Oct 2019 10:36AM
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Whoops said..

So in short: looking for a great allrounder, early planing wave/freeride sail, with freestyle ability that goes on Simmer masts.

Thx!

i would have said the simmers blacktip does this.

what year simmer do you have. all my simmers are super powerfull.

13 Oct 2019 11:24AM
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Hi Whoops

it sounds like you already have a good range of gear there. :)

For the Simmer Masts then they are all constant curve. Not flex top or towards flex top.

Not sure where you find that info.
If it is from the Unifibre 'comparison chart' , then don't trust this 100%. Or like the Simmer HQ advised me ,- don't trust it at all,,

if you are looking for a 5 batten sail for free ride / wave and maybe some freestyle, then have a closer look at the Simmer Enduro. This sail is light and have heaps of power / stability.

Cheers
jesper

Broken Fin
11 posts
13 Oct 2019 11:41AM
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This looks like a copy of my own story.
My 3S 106 will follow me into the grave and so will the KA Kults 5.3 and 5.8 that fits perfect to the board. Also using a KA koyote 6.6 which works well but the Kult' s are much more fun to sail.
They have really good low end power and are very stable and easy to handle when powered up. You will survive any gust (almost) and they are perfect for gusty b&j conditions.
5 battens and medium build quality, relatively reasonable priced.
I step down a board size for 4.7 , weighing 84kg.

In the search of the holy b&j grail I have tried , bought and sold loads of sails (Not Sailworks) and ended up with the Kult.

A couple of pictures taken of me (unaware) last week on 6.6/106 . Coast of Northern Norway.

www.facebook.com/groups/218856481504651/

Gestalt
QLD, 12148 posts
13 Oct 2019 2:28PM
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Broken Fin said..
This looks like a copy of my own story.
My 3S 106 will follow me into the grave and so will the KA Kults 5.3 and 5.8 that fits perfect to the board. Also using a KA koyote 6.6 which works well but the Kult' s are much more fun to sail.
They have really good low end power and are very stable and easy to handle when powered up. You will survive any gust (almost) and they are perfect for gusty b&j conditions.
5 battens and medium build quality, relatively reasonable priced.
I step down a board size for 4.7 , weighing 84kg.

In the search of the holy b&j grail I have tried , bought and sold loads of sails (Not Sailworks) and ended up with the Kult.

A couple of pictures taken of me (unaware) last week on 6.6/106 . Coast of Northern Norway.

www.facebook.com/groups/218856481504651/




I would agree that the kults are very stable and suit B&J

i'd rate simmer apex / blacktip higher though. the simmers in my experience have much better low end. that seems to be a simmer thing. all of my simmer sails have great drive.
in my experience the simmers feel much lighter and balanced on the water too. I know this might offend some but i'd go as far as to say that simmer is a step up from KA.

Whoops
2 posts
13 Oct 2019 4:54PM
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Hi all ,

Thx for helping in my sacred quest

I'm not a very experienced surfer in terms of sail experience .
I've got the Blacktips X (2015/2016) as my first sails ever and like to keep them. The reasons I bought all Xply: durable , and it gets old nice. At least my 5.3 which after 40 crashy saltwater sessions still looks as new.

They' ve got great power when the gust comes and are light in handling. Maybe its the difference between Blacktips with all monofilm and the all Xply and pvc window Blacktip X that makes some preformance
difference on a gusty lake.

Adding a Goya Bounce 5.1 and 5.6 looks a great option.

An Apex 6.2 looks like a beast of a sail but I think it will come close to my Vmax 6.6 for the condtions I use it in.

@Sail Repair The Unifiber selector led me to Simmers being more flextop.....those naughty boys!

Mark _australia
WA, 19564 posts
13 Oct 2019 5:26PM
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Faff said..
Wizards



On a Simmer mast? Hmmm dunno about that, yes both flex top by NP is a lot more so

Why not just Simmer?

Gestalt
QLD, 12148 posts
Monday , 14 Oct 2019 7:44AM
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Mark _australia said..

Faff said..
Wizards




On a Simmer mast? Hmmm dunno about that, yes both flex top by NP is a lot more so

Why not just Simmer?


I guess that is another option as simmer do a freestyle sail too. it seems a bit off the radar though.

Gestalt
QLD, 12148 posts
Monday , 14 Oct 2019 8:05AM
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Whoops said..
Hi all ,

Thx for helping in my sacred quest

I'm not a very experienced surfer in terms of sail experience .
I've got the Blacktips X (2015/2016) as my first sails ever and like to keep them. The reasons I bought all Xply: durable , and it gets old nice. At least my 5.3 which after 40 crashy saltwater sessions still looks as new.

They' ve got great power when the gust comes and are light in handling. Maybe its the difference between Blacktips with all monofilm and the all Xply and pvc window Blacktip X that makes some preformance
difference on a gusty lake.

Adding a Goya Bounce 5.1 and 5.6 looks a great option.

An Apex 6.2 looks like a beast of a sail but I think it will come close to my Vmax 6.6 for the condtions I use it in.

@Sail Repair The Unifiber selector led me to Simmers being more flextop.....those naughty boys!




so I have a 6.2 apex and a 7.2 Vmax.

the Vmax and the Apex do feel quite different on the water.
whilst both have noticeable low end drive the apex definitely feels like a wave sail with a more central c.o.e and the Vmax definitely feels like a slalom sail with a forward and low c.o.e. The Vmax looks like it has cams when rigged and on the water has the forward drive you would expect from a slalom sail. I love how light the Vmax is/feels. first time I jumped it felt like cheating and with gybes it has all the power to encourage the rail to bite through the transition.

it's the lightness and balance the simmers I've used have that for me works in gusty conditions. when not planning the sails remain very balanced. they all have a lot of twist which allows the gust to hit and power up the sail.

the reason I suggested a freestyle sail is that you already have the blasting sail (Vmax) plus you have the wave sails (blacktip) so in search of something inbetween leaves freestyle or freeride.

Jesper @ sailrepair has suggested the freeride option.

can you demo the goya or the simmer ace on your current mast?

edit... p.s I'm on 2018

Faff
VIC, 681 posts
Monday , 14 Oct 2019 12:02PM
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Sail Repair WA said..
Hi Whoops

it sounds like you already have a good range of gear there. :)

For the Simmer Masts then they are all constant curve. Not flex top or towards flex top.

Not sure where you find that info.
If it is from the Unifibre 'comparison chart' , then don't trust this 100%. Or like the Simmer HQ advised me ,- don't trust it at all,,

if you are looking for a 5 batten sail for free ride / wave and maybe some freestyle, then have a closer look at the Simmer Enduro. This sail is light and have heaps of power / stability.

Cheers
jesper

Interesting... Avanti told me the same - ignore the chart, any CC mast will do. I've been using Severne masts, which according to many are CC.

Gestalt
QLD, 12148 posts
Monday , 14 Oct 2019 3:03PM
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Select to expand quote
Faff said..



Sail Repair WA said..
Hi Whoops

it sounds like you already have a good range of gear there. :)

For the Simmer Masts then they are all constant curve. Not flex top or towards flex top.

Not sure where you find that info.
If it is from the Unifibre 'comparison chart' , then don't trust this 100%. Or like the Simmer HQ advised me ,- don't trust it at all,,

if you are looking for a 5 batten sail for free ride / wave and maybe some freestyle, then have a closer look at the Simmer Enduro. This sail is light and have heaps of power / stability.

Cheers
jesper




Interesting... Avanti told me the same - ignore the chart, any CC mast will do. I've been using Severne masts, which according to many are CC.




here is another source.
www.peterman.dk/start-windsurfing-samlet-gb-dk01.htm

this is what the values mean.
www.peterman.dk/mast-imcs-formulas.htm

bare in mind each manufacturer is working to tolerances so not all masts of a particular brand will be the same. pro sailors as an example will have custom masts built or try 4-5 masts and pick the best.

if you look at the uniber page the Avanti masts are all over the place. that could mean Avanti sails are less dependant on bend curve or it could mean Avanti masts have less QA

in general most manufacturers are constant curve on the unifiber page. constant curve is separated into 3 grades though.

manufacturers really should publish bend curves.

Faff
VIC, 681 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 1:12PM
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Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..

Faff said..




Sail Repair WA said..
Hi Whoops

it sounds like you already have a good range of gear there. :)

For the Simmer Masts then they are all constant curve. Not flex top or towards flex top.

Not sure where you find that info.
If it is from the Unifibre 'comparison chart' , then don't trust this 100%. Or like the Simmer HQ advised me ,- don't trust it at all,,

if you are looking for a 5 batten sail for free ride / wave and maybe some freestyle, then have a closer look at the Simmer Enduro. This sail is light and have heaps of power / stability.

Cheers
jesper





Interesting... Avanti told me the same - ignore the chart, any CC mast will do. I've been using Severne masts, which according to many are CC.





here is another source.
www.peterman.dk/start-windsurfing-samlet-gb-dk01.htm

this is what the values mean.
www.peterman.dk/mast-imcs-formulas.htm

bare in mind each manufacturer is working to tolerances so not all masts of a particular brand will be the same. pro sailors as an example will have custom masts built or try 4-5 masts and pick the best.

if you look at the uniber page the Avanti masts are all over the place. that could mean Avanti sails are less dependant on bend curve or it could mean Avanti masts have less QA

in general most manufacturers are constant curve on the unifiber page. constant curve is separated into 3 grades though.

manufacturers really should publish bend curves.

The Avanti designer is ex-Gaastra. They were definitely hard top when they started. When gaastra switched, they probably followed suit, but unlike gaastra (and like Severne) didn't tell anyone.



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"Sail advise" started by Whoops