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Slalom board/sail influence on learning

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Created by Nubie A week ago, 6 Jan 2019
Nubie
23 posts
6 Jan 2019 1:08AM
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We all know when start wsurf you must have freeride board/sail for easier progress...

But what gives bigginer more hard time when sailing, slalom cam-sail or slalom board?

I find slalom sail very stable and easy to control in gust condition,but it is problem if you fall down and water come inside sleeve..
Compare to slalom board I have hard time becuase of outboard straps..

How much equpiment affects on learning?

olskool
QLD, 942 posts
6 Jan 2019 7:53AM
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Nubie, correct gear for rider ability makes a HUGE difference. You dont jump in an F1racecar to become a learner driver.... Choose a RAF sail appropriate to your size n prevailing wind conditions, a board (160litre-ish) with many strap positions. Start with straps inboard, move em out as you learn to plane n feel comfy.

Nubie
23 posts
6 Jan 2019 6:58AM
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From my first day I sail on slalom gear.
maybe this decrease my progress?

olskool
QLD, 942 posts
6 Jan 2019 8:59AM
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One other thing. Im a big fan of overfinning. Slap a big fin in n rarely do you do the walk of shame. Great for learners confidence. Itll also get you planing in marginal conditions when others are dredging. Another boost for learners confidence. As your skills n speeds increase drop to the appropriate size fin for board,sail,n wind. Im no guru but have used this to help other learners progress easily. Its not an easy sport to master. But a smile on the dial makes it all worthwhile.

clarence
TAS, 766 posts
6 Jan 2019 11:49AM
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I agree with Oldskool.

It is even worth getting a second hand freeride sail with no cams ($200 - $500) for one season then selling it on. It will make a big difference....getting the sail out of the water, gybing, waterstarting. All these fundamentals are much more difficult with a cammed sail.

Clarence

jirvin4505
QLD, 957 posts
6 Jan 2019 10:54AM
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Contentious question
ive often been admonished for incorrect gear choices
slow learner. Fat and old, tried all the wrong combinations

breakthroughs for me ... of course depends on wind quality etc
Going to simple 2 cam sails = ezzy lions. Or similar Severne turbos
Full race sails NO. Big heavy luffs and designed for sailors experienced with being overpowered

Aside.OT.....recently tried ezzy 7.5 freeride 'cheeta' Not as successful with handling the typical lake gusty winds as the equivalent 7.5 lion 2cam. Didn't think it was advantageous in the gybe as it didn't hold clew first as well = different topic. Yes a little easier in handling but didnt appreciate loss of planing time in gusts and lulls.

so called free ride intermediate boards 'versatile' were heart breakers = difficult to get and stay on the plane. Eg modern starboard Go and Carve. Large gecko and atomic.....By the time you learn how to get them planing you are ready to give up or put a chainsaw through them

more performace boards that may not be so 'versatile' were the breakthrough. Boards designed to get planing and stay planing through lulls

Superlightwind boards in more robust = wood construction
a mate did well on a large 137 Isonic with free ride sails
old freerace boards. Fanatic stingray. Old futuras

not to mention learning sail handling skills on a longboard and then my absolute early planing breakthrough board Bic 283

buy secondhand = learn to repair = invaluable skill

find what ever gets you on the water and gets you going. Time on water is the most valuable investment
find a group to sail with = will take years off your learning curve

Cheers Jeff

jirvin4505
QLD, 957 posts
6 Jan 2019 11:14AM
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@Nubie
looks like you are already sorted quote from previous thread. What are your specific problems..??

Select to expand quote
Nubie said..
isonic 85cm wide, warp 8.6,

I dont talk about steering in jibe,that is easy ,just put your back foot on leeward rail and board allways turn downwind.

I am talking about bear away when planning in both footstraps...




olskool
QLD, 942 posts
6 Jan 2019 12:14PM
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Nubie, where in qld are you based? I used to sail the late '80s wave/slalom. Stopped for 30yrs. Been sailing again the past 3years. Can push my ol RBs to around 28kts. Started this winter on 150 AHD Freediamond 275 x 77. Had a play on 130 AHD fast forward, far from mastering it. Just about to hit the 125 slalom gear. Much against everyones recomendations. What made want to start on THE HARDEST gear to sail? Lots of good sailors fear that gear.. Comments like, its frightenly fast, not comfy to sail. Itll catch a rail n you will end up in hospital. Just a thought.... Tough place to start. For anyone.....

Nubie
23 posts
6 Jan 2019 4:23PM
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Select to expand quote
jirvin4505 said..
@Nubie
looks like you are already sorted quote from previous thread. What are your specific problems..??







Nubie said..
isonic 85cm wide, warp 8.6,

I dont talk about steering in jibe,that is easy ,just put your back foot on leeward rail and board allways turn downwind.

I am talking about bear away when planning in both footstraps...

















I will describe..

I am atheltic ,I play football,snowboard,skiiing,tenis,flying,water skiing/boarding,carting etc
I never had problem to lern new sport so I want try windsurfing.

My assumption was that I will learn fast wsurfing,so I decide to imdietly buy slalom boars/sail,I was skip learning phase on school board,freeride board etc...also I never been on wsurf school..
My first board was slalom 110L and 7.0 race sail,I rember it was "survival mode" on 30kts gusty winds on learning phase!
I prayed to God to come back to the shore :) I asked myself 1000 times what I needed all this ****s,but this sport is like sex,If you every try it,it is hard to stop.
So my learning phase was very very complicated!

I find that wsurfing is not that easy that I was thinking,it is very technical sport and very sensitive to gear settings.
I learned planning in footstraps and harness,I can do tack and jibe (but I stop planning on exit), and I can do small jump only 1m in air,helicopter tack on light wind..all others moves I dont learned...

On slalom board sometime I have problem with going in back strap(unstable wind) ,bear off when planning(on wide board with big fin) and rotate board into wind when planning ...

But periodiaclly I try freeride borad from my friends and find it much easier to sail...

Mark _australia
WA, 18602 posts
6 Jan 2019 5:15PM
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Yeah its not easy

Sounds like you need to go back a few steps, and you know what you need.

Freeride board and camless freeride sails.

A camless sail and a freeride board is capable of performing far higher than you are - for a few years too.

paulyNOR
WA, 41 posts
6 Jan 2019 5:59PM
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Try a smaller sail if available, then you've got a race car but a smaller engine

Once you master the board, ie straps etc., then up the power Level

MarkSSC
QLD, 332 posts
6 Jan 2019 10:54PM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..

I will describe..

I am atheltic ,I play football,snowboard,skiiing,tenis,flying,water skiing/boarding,carting etc
I never had problem to lern new sport so I want try windsurfing.

My assumption was that I will learn fast wsurfing,so I decide to imdietly buy slalom boars/sail,I was skip learning phase on school board,freeride board etc...also I never been on wsurf school..
My first board was slalom 110L and 7.0 race sail,I rember it was "survival mode" on 30kts gusty winds on learning phase!
I prayed to God to come back to the shore :) I asked myself 1000 times what I needed all this ****s,but this sport is like sex,If you every try it,it is hard to stop.
So my learning phase was very very complicated!

I find that wsurfing is not that easy that I was thinking,it is very technical sport and very sensitive to gear settings.
I learned planning in footstraps and harness,I can do tack and jibe (but I stop planning on exit), and I can do small jump only 1m in air,helicopter tack on light wind..all others moves I dont learned...

On slalom board sometime I have problem with going in back strap(unstable wind) ,bear off when planning(on wide board with big fin) and rotate board into wind when planning ...

But periodiaclly I try freeride borad from my friends and find it much easier to sail...




You have put yourself under a lot of stress by leaving out some of the beginner stages. That is not always bad because some people thrive on extra challenge, and if you are athletic enough you may just learn quicker. The goal is to control the board in most conditions. Sometimes the excess speed and loss of control tell us to go back a few steps in order to learn certain skills, but there are no rules about how long you have to serve your apprenticeship because everyone learns at their own pace. Getting coaching or reading up on the technicalities associated with this sport can be a huge help just as it is in other sports. So too is the choice of gear. The slalom gear you have may work in light conditions but be too much of a handful once it begins to blow. Having more than one rig choice gives you more flexibility according to the conditions. Free ride gear is fast and progression to smaller boards is the way to go once you are comfortable on the intermediate boards. Some boards, like the XCite Ride have multiple foot strap positions, so you can progress with inboard strap positions to the outboard mounts on the rails. Cammed sails only become a problem when they end up in the water. Learn to jibe on smaller sails and this will happen less often. Mastering the waterstart is also recommended; far easier than uphauling any sail type or size.

Nubie
23 posts
6 Jan 2019 9:59PM
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Select to expand quote
paulyNOR said..
Try a smaller sail if available, then you've got a race car but a smaller engine

Once you master the board, ie straps etc., then up the power Level




These years I dont have money to buy smaller sail size so I sailed only on 7.0 in every condition,it was really really hard.
99% time on water I survived instead enjoy the sport.

(money is also one of reason why I didnt want buy first beggining equipment and after progress slalom gear,because I must buy twice)
later I see that I made mistake,but I keep sailing on slalom gear,because I was lazy to sell and then agian buy freeride gear..

MagicRide
51 posts
6 Jan 2019 10:46PM
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Nubie,

I know where you're coming from! Windsurfing is an expensive sport period, especially when you're buying gear for the first time. With all the types of boards, sails, masts, fins, booms harnesses etc., sometimes it's just easier to buy some gear that just so happens to be readily available at the present time. I'm sure many of us that began had the wrong gear to learn on, but we kept with it, asked questions and that's how we educate ourselves in the process. You will build a strong foundation for yourself in windsurfing and will appreciate all this newer amazing, performing gear when the time is right as you keep progressing. Enjoy!! Can't wait to get back out myself. 2 more months until the season starts here in southern Oregon. No snow this year here, so we will be getting out early. Yeehaa

NCUSAGUY
44 posts
8 Jan 2019 10:14PM
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The only reasons for a dedicated slalom board is for racing or maximizing your top speed. They will plane up earlier than similar volume free ride boards, but have a rougher ride. The outboard straps are tough to get into for any sailor and really hard for novices. This doesn't mean that you can't learn on one, but it will be a lot more frustrating than a similar free ride design. Race sails are not "user friendly" for novices either - more weight, harder to uphaul or water start, don't jibe or tack as easily as non cam sails. For racing and speed, they are great.

peterowensbabs
NSW, 85 posts
Thursday , 11 Jan 2019 12:54AM
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Definitely get a free ride board, I got rid of my Fanatic Falcon in favour of a blast and never looked back. Not as fast but much more fun, less time in the drink, easer to gybe and tack, easer to up-haul, all of which meant more time sailing - so more time improving. Dedicated slalom boards need to be more dialled in great when the wind is just the correct strength, there is no chop to bounce you out, you have the exact correct fin in etc etc (lots of speed lots of fun but also very frustrating and unforgiving at times). The ease of use of a free ride means you can stomp about like a baby elephant and get away with it but a slalom is sensitive to weight position.

Non cam sails are a similar call, way less fast, way less locked in power but also way more flexible, easer to wet start (with no 40KG of water in the luff tube), often easer to rig, less fussy on mast choice, faster to rig, more forgiving to poor rigging, perhaps more flexible to wind strength (a 5.5 6.5 7.5 would have you covered for most days where as a1M jump up in size on a slalom/race sail may not be enough) and much lighter over all, but in the hand a little less" thrilling" and less lock n loaded.

However if you were to give away one or the other Id swap for a free ride board far more readily than sails.

Pete

scottydog
208 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 10:21PM
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I don't see modern slalom boards being a big deal for a newbie if they are potentially a fast learner. The modern boards are so much easier to use than ones of old. When I learned to windsurf I started on an old Diamond head, but 3 months into it I was onto a AHD 120l course board, then over he next few years moved onto a hand me down custom race slalom boards. They were wild and fast but quickly got up to speed on them. The sails were also full race sails, but having tried them out recently and are so much more user friendly than the current crop!

I think modern race sails would be a mistake for a newbie, being so heavy, delicate batten wise and a nightmare to downhaul. So no cam or up to twin cam would be fine.



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"Slalom board/sail influence on learning" started by Nubie