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World Sailing Windsurfing equipment 2024 Olympics Survey

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Created by Sterlings 24 days ago, 24 Jul 2019
Sterlings
QLD, 69 posts
24 Jul 2019 10:31AM
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For your information;
Re: Survey - 2024 Men's and Women's Windsurfer equipment selection

World Sailing is now inviting manufacturers and Class Associations to tender to be selected as the Men's and Women's Windsurfer equipment to be used at the 2024 Olympic Sailing Competition. More information can be found here

We are kindly asking the windsurfing community to answer a few questions regarding the Windsurfing equipment for the next Olympic Games.
Two forms are available: A form for RS:X windsurfers: forms.gle/Jx3zXNecrVgPVV8c7A form intended for members of the windsurfer community other than RS:X windsurfers: forms.gle/DgJNkv2K3GhEkaHh7
The answers will provide feedback to the Working Party for their consultation,
The surveys will be open until Sunday 28th July,

Thank you for your contribution,

Jaime Navarro Head of Technical & Offshore
T : +44 (0)2039 404 918 M: +44 (0)7887 692 948 sailing.org
20 Eastbourne Terrace
London, UK, W2 6LG

nazsail
VIC, 296 posts
27 Jul 2019 8:12PM
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Cheers. Can you add this to the foil section as well. Bring on the convertible boards, yeeh ha

nazsail
VIC, 296 posts
31 Jul 2019 3:49PM
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Closing date soon. Help us grow again

elmo
WA, 7937 posts
1 Aug 2019 6:38AM
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closed

amektura
4 posts
8 Aug 2019 12:47AM
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World Sailing is now inviting manufacturers and Class Associations to tender to be selected as the Men's and Women's Windsurfer equipment to be used at the 2024 Olympic Sailing Competition. More information can be found here

amektura
4 posts
8 Aug 2019 4:06AM
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Panda, I dunno that yours is funny.... I'd say the guy was probably one of society's major failures, worst of the worst, and has reformed. That is good he'd be 1 in a million. Naturally, I mean the guy on the left www.porn600.me www.redtube.social www.pornjk.com

Sterlings
QLD, 69 posts
Monday , 12 Aug 2019 3:43PM
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Bit of an update

www.sailing.org/news/88908.php#.XVD8Y-gzbIU

SeanAUS120
QLD, 682 posts
Wednesday , 14 Aug 2019 10:04PM
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Saving everyone a click:

Tenders have been received from the following Classes / Manufacturers:

- RS:X, Neil Pryde - Non foiling one design
- Glide, Glide Class - Non foiling one design
- Windsurfer, International Windsurfer Class Association - Non foiling one design
- iFoil, Starboard - Foiling (convertible) one design
- Bow-4Z, Gun Sails von Osterhausen GmbH - Foiling (convertible) one design
- Formula Foil Limited, International Formula Windsurfing Class - Open Registered Series Production scheme - foiling
- Windfoil 1, Founding industry partners: Starboard, Severne, Phantom International - One design for the board

cammd
QLD, 2358 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 11:50AM
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My bet is the shortlist will be the following 2 non foiling and 2 foiling tenders for sea trials

RSX
Glide
ifoil
Formula Foil

and my favourite would be formula foil because Formula Class is awesome and it would be good to have competition not only for quality gear but for service and price as well

Chris249
258 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 10:13AM
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But we've seen countless examples to prove that manufacturers of open-supply Olympic racing kit don't compete on price. They compete on performance, which drives up price.

Compare the the cost of the "formula" open-supply Olympic Finn dinghy or the former Olympic Europe dinghy to the Olympic Laser. The open-supply boats cost vastly more for a craft of similar speed and size. Or look at the $100,000 price of some Olympic bicycles. If Olympic competition doesn't drive down the cost of bikes why would it keep the cost of boards down?

Anyone who is going to do an Olympic campaign is up for such big bucks that they know It's lunacy to try to buy cheaper gear, since it's such a minor part of the overall costs. And I'm not sure how much time you've spent with Olympic class sailmakers and gear builders, but I'm sure you'll find out from them that when you are appealing to such a high-end market you develop faster and more expensive gear - not cheap stuff that works for the average sailor.

Brett Morris
NSW, 1142 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 12:37PM
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I think there is momentum to change to a foiling option, in which case the Formula and Windfoil1 are the most supported by the industry.

If they choose to stay with the traditional course racing option, then there would need to be some very good reasons to drop the RSX.

Maybe the Glide ticks some boxes that the RSX has been disappointing in i.e. a hybrid Raceboard/Formula Board that is suitable for club and youth racing at a affordable price. I believe the Glide is half the price of a RSX? (A$5000)

Time will tell if there is real desire to change up the Olympic format? I believe the trials are in Garda mid September. I'm going to be there to keep an eye on developments.... Interesting times...

windsufering
VIC, 792 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 2:51PM
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Yep makes perfect sense for sea trials in Garda where are the Olympics again

jusavina
QLD, 1199 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 4:30PM
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Select to expand quote
windsufering said..
Yep makes perfect sense for sea trials in Garda where are the Olympics again


All over the world during 4 years and Garda has an Olympic week every year.
If you're talking about the race every four year that just a few athletes are allowed to participate (No Australian windsurfers are allowed by the Australian Federation), it will be in the south bay of Marseille (France).

cammd
QLD, 2358 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 5:31PM
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I'm thinking if two foil options go to sea trials, which I expect will happen, one of them will be a one design proposal.
But I'm just taking a guess.

cammd
QLD, 2358 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 5:34PM
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Select to expand quote
Chris249 said..
But we've seen countless examples to prove that manufacturers of open-supply Olympic racing kit don't compete on price. They compete on performance, which drives up price.

Compare the the cost of the "formula" open-supply Olympic Finn dinghy or the former Olympic Europe dinghy to the Olympic Laser. The open-supply boats cost vastly more for a craft of similar speed and size. Or look at the $100,000 price of some Olympic bicycles. If Olympic competition doesn't drive down the cost of bikes why would it keep the cost of boards down?

Anyone who is going to do an Olympic campaign is up for such big bucks that they know It's lunacy to try to buy cheaper gear, since it's such a minor part of the overall costs. And I'm not sure how much time you've spent with Olympic class sailmakers and gear builders, but I'm sure you'll find out from them that when you are appealing to such a high-end market you develop faster and more expensive gear - not cheap stuff that works for the average sailor.


how do ski's and kayaks and other equipment dependent sports manage those issues. Is it only sailing that is one design

windsufering
VIC, 792 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 6:04PM
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Select to expand quote
jusavina said..



windsufering said..
Yep makes perfect sense for sea trials in Garda where are the Olympics again





All over the world during 4 years and Garda has an Olympic week every year.
If you're talking about the race every four year that just a few athletes are allowed to participate (No Australian windsurfers are allowed by the Australian Federation), it will be in the south bay of Marseille (France).




That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .

jusavina
QLD, 1199 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 6:17PM
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Select to expand quote


Fixed it for you:

That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS Australian Sailing why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .

Sterlings
QLD, 69 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 6:32PM
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Select to expand quote
jusavina said..


Fixed it for you:

That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS Australian Sailing why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .


Good question and I have asked it. ,Never received a satisfactory response. But I could write a book about what we have been told. But heh, if you the parents don't/can't cough up thousands for another four years then your athlete isn't even serious. another gem: if she was serious she would drop out of uni, ditch her career and boyfriend., then go overseas and live by herself joining in with another group off her own bat. Somewhat against their 'athlete welfare' statements I would think. and yes, others seem to met their criteria without the same scrutiny.

Chris249
258 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 4:45PM
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Select to expand quote
cammd said..


Chris249 said..
But we've seen countless examples to prove that manufacturers of open-supply Olympic racing kit don't compete on price. They compete on performance, which drives up price.

Compare the the cost of the "formula" open-supply Olympic Finn dinghy or the former Olympic Europe dinghy to the Olympic Laser. The open-supply boats cost vastly more for a craft of similar speed and size. Or look at the $100,000 price of some Olympic bicycles. If Olympic competition doesn't drive down the cost of bikes why would it keep the cost of boards down?

Anyone who is going to do an Olympic campaign is up for such big bucks that they know It's lunacy to try to buy cheaper gear, since it's such a minor part of the overall costs. And I'm not sure how much time you've spent with Olympic class sailmakers and gear builders, but I'm sure you'll find out from them that when you are appealing to such a high-end market you develop faster and more expensive gear - not cheap stuff that works for the average sailor.




how do ski's and kayaks and other equipment dependent sports manage those issues. Is it only sailing that is one design



I'm not sure about kayaks, but it seems that they have a terrible ratio of racers to normal users so I wouldn't use them as a good model.

Ski gear seems to be very restricted in design- the FIS has to approve all racing gear and if it thinks it's going to give too much of an advantage it can be banned. Who is going to agree to that approach in windsurfing?

Cycling's rules and the Lugano Charter specify that bikes are very tightly restricted in design. The gold medal bikes are as slow, compared to the fastest bikes, as an LT is to a foiler (in foiling winds). And still an Olympic bike can cost about $100k retail - but that's list price, and the Olympic teams won't actually sell you one

Countries like England spend about $4mill per gold medal. If they can spend big bucks to win gold, they will- and they will not compete on price. They spent over $20k on ONE windsurfer-style mast in 2000!

Chris249
258 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 4:55PM
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Select to expand quote
Sterlings said..

jusavina said..


Fixed it for you:

That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS Australian Sailing why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .



Good question and I have asked it. ,Never received a satisfactory response. But I could write a book about what we have been told. But heh, if you the parents don't/can't cough up thousands for another four years then your athlete isn't even serious. another gem: if she was serious she would drop out of uni, ditch her career and boyfriend., then go overseas and live by herself joining in with another group off her own bat. Somewhat against their 'athlete welfare' statements I would think. and yes, others seem to met their criteria without the same scrutiny.


And then there is the good old "you won the trial process on points but someone else will go" routine. Someone I know copped that. The trials were then re-scored after they had been completed. And in the end, the guys they chose under-performed enormously and instead of the gold people had been talking of for years, they got 8th or so.

Very few Olympic sailors or triallists seem to come out happy. Best of luck to you.

windsufering
VIC, 792 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 9:13PM
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Select to expand quote
jusavina said..


Fixed it for you:

That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS Australian Sailing why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .


That's your opinion not mine

Chris249
258 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 7:32PM
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Select to expand quote
jusavina said..


Fixed it for you:

That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS Australian Sailing why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .


You're right to defend the RQYS, which has done plenty for windsurfing, but who have AS bent the rules for recently?

The people who missed out worst in recent games was the 49erFX team, as far as I know, but were any rules broken?

Given how little windsurfing and windsurfer racing is going on in Oz it's understandable that more popular disciplines could be favoured, but has that actually happened?

cammd
QLD, 2358 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 7:24AM
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Select to expand quote
Chris249 said..




jusavina said..


Fixed it for you:

That race every four years LOL
maybe you should ask some members of the RQYS Australian Sailing why they dont send windsurfers but they bend the rules for others .






You're right to defend the RQYS, which has done plenty for windsurfing, but who have AS bent the rules for recently?

The people who missed out worst in recent games was the 49erFX team, as far as I know, but were any rules broken?

Given how little windsurfing and windsurfer racing is going on in Oz it's understandable that more popular disciplines could be favoured, but has that actually happened?






I think windsurfing would be more popular or even one of the most popular if the equivalent resources to other Olympic classes were allocated over say a 5 or 10 year plan (2 Olympic cycles). The uptake of juniors after only 2 seasons of having one dedicated Australian Sailing windsurfing coach was pretty promising and a number of clubs began racing techno and we had over 20 at a youth nationals, higher numbers than other classes that are better resourced.

Lasers or 470 or 29/49ners for example have AS coaches in every state and programs embedded in clubs and pathways well established and resourced. A few more years of even one dedicated windsurfing coach and the numbers would have swelled, they were swelling, unfortunately AS didn't send a rep to Rio even though we qualified and deserved to go and then they cut funding to the coach.

Now we are back to clubs funding and running programs on their own and that's largely done via volunteers. Really what was AS thinking, did they expect one coach could take Australian Windsurfing from nothing to Gold medals in half of one Olympic cycle.

Windsurfing is the second biggest youth class worldwide, popularity with the class is not what is holding it back in Australia. We have some pretty talented youth at the moment, potential elite level, put the same resources into them that are put into other classes and I would not be surprised if they achieved similar or better results, and those guys are only coming from a pool of 20 or 30 sailors, imagine if we had hundreds sailing windsurfer's, Australia would be up the top of the sport in the Olympics.

Sterlings
QLD, 69 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 2:26PM
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Totally agree. Their expectations are unrealistic (that's being kind).
If they don't invest more in windsurfing from the very beginning - i.e November 2019 (if there is a change of board), AUS will once again be left behind.

RichardG
WA, 2662 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 8:09PM
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How many yacht clubs are presently sailing foiling boards in Australia ? How big are the fleets in numbers ? How many are paying club members ? The secret is for windsurfers with foils to join yacht clubs and pay fees at clubs and participate and that way the pathway from dinghies to foiling windsurfers can be shown to Australian Sailing. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case in Australia in many windsurfing classes but if it doesn't change I see the foiling in the Olympics will make no difference to windsurfing uptake and success at Olympic level classes in Australia. When Greg Hyde and Lars Kleppich had their success the sailing in clubs was huge in Windsurfing terms. Also Brad Hiles (WA): there was someone who might have won gold in 1988 but there are stories I have heard about selection issues and decision makers at the top. I might be wrong but yacht clubs are big lobby groups and that is where the money is and you need to be sailing in them to get the support.

KA360
NSW, 715 posts
5 hours ago , 17 Aug 2019 10:52PM
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World Sailing has shortlisted five tenders to attend the Paris 2024 Men's and Women's Windsurfer sea trials from 29 September to 3 October 2019.

Circolo Surf Torbole on Lake Garda, Italy will host the sea trials following the RS:X World Championships.
World Sailing received seven applications from class associations and manufacturers wishing to participate in the sea trials. The Paris 2024 Windsurfer Evaluation Working Party analysed the supplied information against the criteria outlined in the invitation to tender.

Shortlisted tenders are:

RS:X, Neil Pryde - Non foiling one design

Glide, Glide Class - Non foiling one design

iFoil, Starboard - Foiling (convertible) one design

Formula Foil Limited, International Formula Windsurfing Class - Open Registered Series Production scheme - foiling

Windfoil 1, Founding industry partners: Starboard, Severne, Phantom International - One design for the board - Open Registered Series Production scheme rest of equipment - foiling

World Sailing's Member National Authorities (MNA) are now invited to nominate their top two male and top two female windsurfers from which World Sailing's Paris 2024 Windsurfer Evaluation Working Party will select from.

MNAs wishing to send windsurfers must contact technical@sailing.org to receive the nomination form which must be received no later than 31 August 2019.



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"World Sailing Windsurfing equipment 2024 Olympics Survey" started by Sterlings