Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Motion GPS approved for GPSTC

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Created by sailquik 2 months ago, 21 Mar 2019
sailquik
VIC, 4547 posts
21 Mar 2019 12:56PM
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Just posted on the GPSTC News:

We are pleased to announce provisional approval to the Motion GPS with Firmware version # 988 (and later), for use in the GPS-Team Challenge competition. Conditional on: - Posting using 5Hz or 10Hz only. (1Hz or 2Hz not allowed)- .oao or converted .ubx or .sbp files only, and expressly not allowing posting from files converted to .gpx format. Posting from approved Software analysis programs only: GPS-Results V6.161 or later, GPSAR-Pro V5.21 or later, Realspeed V2.001, KA-72 Speedlocker.- Note: Posting from the screen results or the text digest file is specifically not allowed. Other conditions may be added later as required.


For those few early adopters who have one of these GPS already, you will need to check if you have the firmware listed which is currently here: onandon.be/motion/downloads.html

As far as I know, Dylan is in the process of updating KA72 to accept the OAO file format, but until that is done, the only was to analyse your data directly is through GPS-Results. The latest Mac (V5.60) and Windows (V6.170) versions of GPS-Results can load and analyse OAO files. Only the windows version can also convert and save OAO to SBP (File >Save Trackpoints) which can be uploaded to KA72 and analysed in all the other programs,

The Motion can convert OAO to UBX internally and those files can be read in earlier versions of GPS-Results (and converted to SBP in Windows versions only) and in GPSAR-Pro. If you have an older free trial version of Windows GPS-Results, you can convert the UBX file to SBP and post it to KA72. (You dont need a registered version to do the conversion, only to view the results.)

Yann Mathet has said he is working on OAO support for GPSAR-Pro.

RealSpeed is unlikely to be updated to support OAO, but V2,001 can read and analyse the converted SBP files.

Some other interesting things to note:

The reason Motion has it's own file structure (OAO) is mainly for effeciency and speed. The native Ublox binary UBX format makes quite large files. OAO files with the data we require are about half the size of the UBX files and are comparable to SBP files at the same Hz.

EG:
2 hr 10Hz OAO approx 5mb.
2hr 10Hz UBX approx 10mb
2hr 5 hz OAO approx 2.5mb
2 hr 5Hz SBP approx 2mb

The Motion GPS has 8Gb of internal memory, so it effectively almost unlimited.
The larger files are only an issue for analysis program processing time. With OAO files, expect little difference from a GW-52/60 if you use the 5Hz setting on the Motion, and about twice the delay if you use the 10Hz setting, but it will always depend of the power of your computer (or the speed of the internet connection for KA72) of course.

Regarding GPX files: These are extremly large and do not contain all the data we need. EG: the SDOP data. Only useful for some types of analysis, and limited there anyhow.

sailquik
VIC, 4547 posts
21 Mar 2019 1:31PM
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Motions in use:

www.facebook.com/Zaraspeedsailing/videos/253575822190850/

Dezza
NSW, 640 posts
21 Mar 2019 2:08PM
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If I get one, will I windsurf as fast as Zara does

sailquik
VIC, 4547 posts
21 Mar 2019 2:23PM
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Yes, if you wear 10Kg+ of lead and are brave enough!

sailquik
VIC, 4547 posts
21 Mar 2019 5:43PM
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I just realised that there is an interactive picture on the Motion website Home Page that allows you to see how the Motion works and how it's menus and displays look and work. Very neat!

See it here: www.onandon.be/motion/index.html

Click on the red target bottom on the pciture of the GPS to star working though the menues and screen just like on a real one.

( Some of the detailed settings are slightly different in the latest firmware)

tbwonder
NSW, 175 posts
21 Mar 2019 5:53PM
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Good work Daffy, lets hope that this device delivers the goods, especially with respect to reliability.
Any idea how many have actually been shipped to Australia?

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:00PM
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About a handful or two?

fanatic02
NSW, 286 posts
21 Mar 2019 6:05PM
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Good work Daffy . Hope its as good and reliable as stated . Ordered one a few weeks ago . should be here soon .

Farang
37 posts
21 Mar 2019 7:52PM
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Sorry, but is this valid for a Motion GPS: When you use the "Upload Track" feature from the gps-speedsurfing.com website you don't have to take any additional actions, this software is updated automatically.

I like easy way....

Thanks and cheeeers

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
21 Mar 2019 8:13PM
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GPsss doesn't mention the motion as being an approved device yet.

JulienLe
58 posts
21 Mar 2019 8:39PM
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Hello decrepit, it's a discrepancy between GP3S rules and online documentation I think. Also, they are currently adding ubx/oao to their direct upload. In a month or so, all major parsers/competitions will directly handle oao I hope.

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
21 Mar 2019 8:51PM
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I suspected that was the case.

Roo
639 posts
21 Mar 2019 9:44PM
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Select to expand quote
decrepit said..
GPsss doesn't mention the motion as being an approved device yet.


They mentioned it Feb 20.
"We are very happy to announce that the Motion GPS has reached the final stage of official approval for GPS-Speedsurfing.com. Since last summer we have been working together with the developer of the brand new Motion GPS and from now on we will be one of the official resellers of this high-end GPS Device. For more info you can check -> shop.gps-speedsurfing.com/motion-gps or onandon.be/motion/index.html . You can pre-order the device staring today at our webshop.
Besides the GW-60 and the Gyro1 this will be the third doppler device available on the market right now. We encourage the development and introduction of new devices, supporting doppler speeds, the foundation of reliability for our published rankings and speeds.GP3S crewshop.gps-speedsurfing.com/motion-gps"

boardsurfr
WA, 769 posts
21 Mar 2019 9:47PM
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Select to expand quote
decrepit said..
GPsss doesn't mention the motion as being an approved device yet.


Don't they allow just about every GPS that does 1 Hz or higher for casual posting? The more restrictive roles are only for "official" record attempts, I thought.

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
21 Mar 2019 10:05PM
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No idea I just went to their website and didn't see any mention of the motion, maybe i was looking in the wrong spot

JulienLe
58 posts
21 Mar 2019 10:10PM
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Schrodinger's approval. :D

EDIT : Got the answer from GP3S that it's fully approved and all.

Roo
639 posts
21 Mar 2019 11:59PM
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Select to expand quote
sailquik said..
Just posted on the GPSTC News:

We are pleased to announce provisional approval to the Motion GPS with Firmware version # 988 (and later), for use in the GPS-Team Challenge competition. Conditional on: - Posting using 5Hz or 10Hz only. (1Hz or 2Hz not allowed)- .oao or converted .ubx or .sbp files only, and expressly not allowing posting from files converted to .gpx format. Posting from approved Software analysis programs only: GPS-Results V6.161 or later, GPSAR-Pro V5.21 or later, Realspeed V2.001, KA-72 Speedlocker.- Note: Posting from the screen results or the text digest file is specifically not allowed. Other conditions may be added later as required.


For those few early adopters who have one of these GPS already, you will need to check if you have the firmware listed which is currently here: onandon.be/motion/downloads.html

As far as I know, Dylan is in the process of updating KA72 to accept the OAO file format, but until that is done, the only was to analyse your data directly is through GPS-Results. The latest Mac (V5.60) and Windows (V6.170) versions of GPS-Results can load and analyse OAO files. Only the windows version can also convert and save OAO to SBP (File >Save Trackpoints) which can be uploaded to KA72 and analysed in all the other programs,

The Motion can convert OAO to UBX internally and those files can be read in earlier versions of GPS-Results (and converted to SBP in Windows versions only) and in GPSAR-Pro. If you have an older free trial version of Windows GPS-Results, you can convert the UBX file to SBP and post it to KA72. (You dont need a registered version to do the conversion, only to view the results.)

Yann Mathet has said he is working on OAO support for GPSAR-Pro.

RealSpeed is unlikely to be updated to support OAO, but V2,001 can read and analyse the converted SBP files.

Some other interesting things to note:

The reason Motion has it's own file structure (OAO) is mainly for effeciency and speed. The native Ublox binary UBX format makes quite large files. OAO files with the data we require are about half the size of the UBX files and are comparable to SBP files at the same Hz.

EG:
2 hr 10Hz OAO approx 5mb.
2hr 10Hz UBX approx 10mb
2hr 5 hz OAO approx 2.5mb
2 hr 5Hz SBP approx 2mb

The Motion GPS has 8Gb of internal memory, so it effectively almost unlimited.
The larger files are only an issue for analysis program processing time. With OAO files, expect little difference from a GW-52/60 if you use the 5Hz setting on the Motion, and about twice the delay if you use the 10Hz setting, but it will always depend of the power of your computer (or the speed of the internet connection for KA72) of course.

Regarding GPX files: These are extremly large and do not contain all the data we need. EG: the SDOP data. Only useful for some types of analysis, and limited there anyhow.




This is too funny, it's like a Monty Python skit from the Holy Grail, nothing like keeping it simple!

DECREPIT:
Yes, of course! The Holy GPS of Doppler Speed! 'Tis one of the sacred relics Brother Daffy carries with him. Brother Daffy! Bring up the Holy GPS!

SPEEDSAILORS: (chanting)
Pie Iesu domine, dona eis celeritas
Pie Iesu domine, dona eis celeritas. Pie Iesu domine, dona eis celeritas. Pie Iesu domine, dona eis celeritas

DECREPIT:
How does it, um-- how does it work?

JULIENLE:
I know not, my liege

DECREPIT:
Consult the Book of Velocity!

BROTHER DAFFY:
Velocity, chapter two, verses nine to twenty-one

SECOND BROTHER:
And Saint Geschwindigkeit raised the GPS up on high and placed it on his helmet, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy GPS that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine competitors off the water in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon PBs and Jelly Beans and records and sheep stations and large chu--

DAFFY:
Skip a bit, Brother

SECOND BROTHER:
And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou turn on the Holy GPS. Then, shalt thou count using 5Hz or 10Hz for greater velocity. No more. No less. 5 or 10 shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be 5 or 10. 1 shalt thou not count, nor either count thou 2, excepting that thou then proceed to 5 or 10. Once the number 5 or 10, being the correct number, be reached, then, postest thou thy Holy GPS of Doppler Speed ubx or sbp files upon thy GPSCTC, who, being naughty in My sight, shall approve it but not thy files of gpx."

DAFFY:
Amen

SPEEDSAILORS:
Amen

DECREPIT:
Right!
One!... Two!... Five!......Ten!

JulienLe
58 posts
22 Mar 2019 12:25AM
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This still looks very sane to me. You should see some of the contradictive firmware requests I get. :D

sailquik
VIC, 4547 posts
22 Mar 2019 9:29AM
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Ahhh... right Roo. I never go the Monty Python Humour and I don't get yours either.

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
22 Mar 2019 9:36AM
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Only thing is Roo, I have been known to use 8 and 12. Much rounder numbers than 5 and 10, I think humans prefer them because of the fingers and toes.

powersloshin
NSW, 1005 posts
22 Mar 2019 12:54PM
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Thanks guys for spending all this time to evaluate and approve the device. It was about time we had another option. What is complex now will get easy later, same happened with GT31. I am going to order one now...

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
22 Mar 2019 2:22PM
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It won't take long for the motion use to become 2ndnature, It's all fairly logical and straight forward, once you get used to what the buttons do.

Steve Charles
TAS, 1084 posts
22 Mar 2019 6:33PM
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Congrats JulienLe, Daf, Decrepit and others for getting the Motion to this stage Well done.....

John340
QLD, 1929 posts
23 Mar 2019 10:06AM
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I'm an early adopter and have used the Motion for 6 sessions. Julien helped me develop some really cool custom screens that provide on the run feedback for all 6 GPSTC disciplines. The unit is robust and easy to use. It's battery lasts over 30 hours, so that should keep Kato happy. I wear mine on my upper forearm where it is very easy to read on the run. You can also easily operate the control buttons on the run. Connecting to the computer and downloading logs is really straightforward. The screen is large enough for me to read without my usual +3 glasses. Once Dylan modifies KA72 to read the oan files it will be the complete package. In the meantime, GPSRESULTS reads the files and can convert them to sbp files which can be read by KA72.

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
23 Mar 2019 8:45AM
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Thanks John. I think you have more on the water experience than anybody. I love your custom window. The only trap is resetting the hour. If you press the bottom button first it changes to 2s display, them when you hit the top button it resets the whole display. Good as long as you hit the top button first.

fangman
WA, 843 posts
23 Mar 2019 8:54AM
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+1 on what John said. I haven't used any custom screens, but the operation, readability, and functionality thus far seem first class. As a Mac user, the ease of connectivity is wonderful. Great job Julien and the all those on GPSTC committee.

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
23 Mar 2019 2:10PM
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ahh yes the other trap for early users, is not turning it off.
The display turns it self off after a period of inaction. If you're a dozzy old fart like me who doesn't remember what he's done 5 minutes ago, it's easy to assume it's been turned off. There is no indication that it's still alive and logging.

With any luck you'll only do this once or twice.
But there again, there're guys I know who forget turn units off for the drive home, even with the display active.

Stretchy
WA, 443 posts
23 Mar 2019 5:08PM
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Great news, thanks for your efforts Mike, Julien et. al.
Julien, how are you placed with production capacity if a surge in orders is now realised ?

JulienLe
58 posts
24 Mar 2019 4:55AM
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decrepit > As the top button has no action on its own, you can press it first, keep it pressed, then press the bottom one.
decrepit 2 > It could light up from deep sleep every 5 minutes or so ?

Stretchy > It's plain crazy already ! :D

decrepit
WA, 9115 posts
24 Mar 2019 1:17PM
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Select to expand quote
JulienLe said..
decrepit > As the top button has no action on its own, you can press it first, keep it pressed, then press the bottom one.

Yep, that's what I was trying to say.

Select to expand quote
decrepit 2 > It could light up from deep sleep every 5 minutes or so ?

That would only help if you happened to look at it when it woke up, but yes could be worthwhile.
Is it possible to just have a few pixels active? That may be better.

Select to expand quote
Stretchy > It's plain crazy already ! :D

What are you doing here then? Get back to work.

JulienLe
58 posts
24 Mar 2019 6:04PM
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No, it would consume as much as the whole display active. Also : www.xkcd.com/303/



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Motion GPS approved for GPSTC" started by sailquik