Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Using speed boards in the chop

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Created by mkseven > 9 months ago, 12 Apr 2014
mkseven
QLD, 2136 posts
12 Apr 2014 7:27PM
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Anyone here use sub 50 wide speedboard regularly in the chop as in open bay? How did you tame it and stop getting it to break your ankles? Bigger fin? Bare off a bit more to carry more speed? Widen stance?

remo81
QLD, 678 posts
12 Apr 2014 7:39PM
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Hi mk,

I have been waiting for someone to ask a question such as this so I can highlight some points to assist you.

1. I run 100mm less downhaul than recommended.
2. Wave fins the smaller the better. I run a 13cm fin in my 28cm wide speed board.
3. Mast track all the way forward.
4. Boom as low as it can go. I cut the bottom of my boom cut out to get it lower. On my 3.4
5. Outhaul as tight as you can get it. I use a hand crank.
6. Sand the bottom of your board with 80grit sandpaper to help the bottom hold water to reduce friction.
7. I don't use harness lines. Just clip your wast harness directly on the boom.

Hope this helps.

McSmurfin
85 posts
12 Apr 2014 6:43PM
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Pair of these should do the trick?

mkseven
QLD, 2136 posts
13 Apr 2014 12:15AM
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Stop being a sniper remo... how do people sail back upwind in choppy places, or cross the water to get to good spot without killing yourself in transit? Been using the missile more this year to get some time on it & whilst i sail out a bit further than I probably should with it but it's down right dangerous. Tried next size up fin & even different profile but hasn't changed things that much, figure i'm pretty much focused on getting upwind and not keeping up enough speed??? Have no problem at all with it in knee high chop but get into bay swell & it's an absolute nightmare.

sailquik
VIC, 3938 posts
13 Apr 2014 1:01AM
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Going upwind is the easy(er) part because you can keep the speed down just by pointing higher!

Going downwind really fast in open rough water is a nightmare! I have no idea!

Maybe ask a world cup slalom sailor?

Actually, come to think of it more. it depends on the nature of the waves and water state. If the fetch is reasonably long, the wind is steady and there are not land forms to bend/bounce the waves around and create confusion, it is sometimes possible to slot into the troughs or wave faces and run downwind in reasonably smooth water at quite fast speeds. When I was young and fit (stretching the memory here!) we used to do downwind runs across Lake Wellington in 30 knot winds on 'speed' boards with what were then 'speed' sails: The original NP RAF wave sails! We thought we were going really fast but the truth is we probably never cracked 30 knots!! Its when you start going over the backs of the waves that things get interesting!

AUS02
TAS, 1804 posts
13 Apr 2014 9:20AM
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We've got a few good flat-water speed spots perfect for speed boards (never windy enough though ) and then we've got a local bump-n-jump spot that's often howling and is great for blasting, but too rough for the speed boards. In the quest to get a Spot 2-Second PB a few of us have tried speed boards at this spot (Doran's Rd), but they're just too uncontrollable. To go quick in choppier waters you need to get your speed up to 30+ knots across the wind, pick some flatter water (in between troughs) and bear-off hard and go for it and then pull-up again (all in a pretty small area). Smaller slalom boards give you good control to do this (like an 86 iSonic, which has the spot record for this place at 40+ knots), but speed boards tend to get out of control even before you bear-off and seem to be more prone to spin-out or rail catching going over the back of small waves or trough-lines when you are bearing off. I think if it's not super-flat, a small slalom board or larger speed board (there are some good ones around) is going to be quicker and much more manageable. Just re-read your post and not necessarily about trying to go quick - if you must use a speed board, I'd rig with a big fin and a small sail, to keep as much control as possible.

remo81
QLD, 678 posts
13 Apr 2014 3:19PM
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mkseven said...
Stop being a sniper remo... how do people sail back upwind in choppy places, or cross the water to get to good spot without killing yourself in transit? Been using the missile more this year to get some time on it & whilst i sail out a bit further than I probably should with it but it's down right dangerous. Tried next size up fin & even different profile but hasn't changed things that much, figure i'm pretty much focused on getting upwind and not keeping up enough speed??? Have no problem at all with it in knee high chop but get into bay swell & it's an absolute nightmare.


I'm at work with nothing better to do, and I have the internet. Now I know how Vando gets through a day at work.

Gestalt
QLD, 11686 posts
13 Apr 2014 3:26PM
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I always enjoyed listening to pierres take on how to sail in rough water. he is a machine.

Haggar
QLD, 1584 posts
13 Apr 2014 5:52PM
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Mark, reckon you should be using Vando's Futura 93 or a small slalom board with double concaves like a Falcon or Manta.

tilldark
QLD, 272 posts
13 Apr 2014 6:06PM
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When do u guys crack out your speed boards. I'm guessing flat water and 20k+ or is there more to it? In less or rough water would u be better off on a slalom board with more rocker? Might be obvious but I'm genuinely interested in when u use them

remo81
QLD, 678 posts
13 Apr 2014 6:18PM
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I crack mine out in 25+ in any water condition. Its a Lockwood designed Misteral. Love it.

mkseven
QLD, 2136 posts
13 Apr 2014 7:26PM
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i've got 85L slalom but i've been taking the speed board instead to get some tow with it otherwise at my weight i never use it. The last time i did speed was identical between the speed & the slalom but it wasnt overly windy & a bit gusty. I know the other guys when they are on speed boards dont sail quite so far into bay & are upwind a bit more. You watch the vids of volwater & finian sailing fanatic & f2 speeds in open water, what is it they are doing (aside from 100x sailing time each year) .

TASSIEROCKS
TAS, 1631 posts
13 Apr 2014 7:52PM
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mkseven said..

i've got 85L slalom but i've been taking the speed board instead to get some tow with it otherwise at my weight i never use it. The last time i did speed was identical between the speed & the slalom but it wasnt overly windy & a bit gusty. I know the other guys when they are on speed boards dont sail quite so far into bay & are upwind a bit more. You watch the vids of volwater & finian sailing fanatic & f2 speeds in open water, what is it they are doing (aside from 100x sailing time each year) .


I think any good sailor can use speed boards in open water but I'm not convinced they are faster. I would rather be on the Naish SP ltd 95 but my Exocet Speed was fast and fun at Dorans it looks more like a tiny slalom to me.

what every you do use a larger fin like 28cm to keep the board in the water

pierre
QLD, 164 posts
13 Apr 2014 11:54PM
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Mark , through my expirence this is my conclusion till now and maybe it will help out other guys !!! , i know u know what i know but its a good topic...

Speedboards are designed "as u know" for small chop to flat water and most importantly consistant strong wind or u could say stable wind as soon as you dont have any of these factors your speedboard does not work efficiantly anymore !!!1

I have pushed speedboards through heavy chop and yes u can be fast on it but you will be just as fast on a high wind slalom board or even faster in those kind of conditions , and believe u me it is way more easier to ride through heavy chop on a slalom board than a speedboard and way more comfortable , and comfortable means u can push harder !!!!

I know i have in the past misinterpeted how good is your speedboard at your local spot , well back in brisi is no good unless u get some consistant nuking wind for your speedboard to work well , when it comes to chop forget about it , u can ride through it but your preformance will be low...

well goin back to your question , not all speedboards are designed for open water speedsailing or into heavier chop , thats why we have on the market now speedboards that are strictly designed for flat water and there are very few that are designed for choppier waters , meaning while you go through your run on flat water u will at the end end up in choppier waters and thats where u want the board to work properly so u can get to a safe stop!!!
So my conclusion and what i have tested that speedboards dont mix in open water speedsailing or goin into heavy chop , they are not quicker in these conditions !!!!

Here is my last session on a slalom board transfering it into a speedboard version , so the question would be would i have gone quicker on the speedboard , well hard to say it was pretty choppy and gusty and trying out before hand on the speedboard was pretty hard on the feet and a very bumpy ride but the speeds were a tad lower but with the slalom board automatically full control easy to ride and hovered over the chop..

But if the water was flat then yes the speedboard would have excelled!!

gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2014-04-04&team=41

www.gps-speedsurfing.com/?mnu=user&val=146919&uid=1599

Again speedsailing in choppy waters needs tunning your sail properly , i tend to put a good amount of DH to first gain control , under DH will cause to much power to control and it gets harder...
Fin size has to be bigger so you dont get spinouts and so the fin is almost always incontact with the water , but putting a bigger fin in a 50 wide speedboard is not a solution that will definatly crank your ankles creating alot of power and that will equal drag .... and not all fins will work on the same speedboard ...

Bottom shape of the board is the key element , like i said before majority of the brands today are designed for flat water , and very few for allrounder...

I know when i was on carbon art speedboards 50 n 44 they worked great in flat water to small chop but as soon as it starts to get hectic mate they where so hard to ride in the messy chop goin upwind, crosswind let alone downwind , like you said ankle killer!!!!....

From today i have tested out the mistral speed 55 n 47 and by looking at there bottom shape design they are made for an allrounder but still to a certain degree but way better than the carbon arts ...

But at the end of the day in conditions of 18 to 30+kts in medium choppy waters i would stick to a high wind slalom board , way quicker and way better handling in the chop and more fun to ride and you get more runs in !!!!





Bonominator
VIC, 5477 posts
14 Apr 2014 6:00PM
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^^ Yep agree with that.

Small slalom always faster than speed board in choppy water. Tried every combination and slalom always quicker, and more fun.

GeoGeo
QLD, 134 posts
15 Apr 2014 12:38AM
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Bonominator said..

^^ Yep agree with that.

Small slalom always faster than speed board in choppy water. Tried every combination and slalom always quicker, and more fun.



And that's why I've just bought 2014 JP Slalom/Speed 55, 84l and love it. I was hesitating at first as I didn't know what to expect but some guys here at SB told me it's easy to ride in bay choppy conditions and I'm glad I listen to them. I can highly recommend this type of smallest slalom board. I still can't believe how easy it rides and jibes in that sort of conditions. I'm around 78-80kg and as long as I'm even slowly moving it doesn't sink under me.

sailquik
VIC, 3938 posts
15 Apr 2014 12:54AM
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I also agree!

But what we call a small slalom board, many people these days seem to call a speed board?!

GeoGeo
QLD, 134 posts
15 Apr 2014 2:17AM
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sailquik said..

I also agree!

But what we call a small slalom board, many people these days seem to call a speed board?!


I agree there's some confusion. If JP 55 wouldn't have "Slalom" written next to "Speed" on the board I would think it's 100% speed board. It's so small compared to my JP66 but rides so well and it's very easy to get used to. Took me 10 min to like it. Now I don't want to ride anything bigger.

mathew
VIC, 1620 posts
15 Apr 2014 9:29AM
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Sounds like a bit of confusion on "what is a speed board?"... for most of us, it would be something like "a board which has about 15-30% less volume than your body weight". If the board is "about body weight" then is would be more slalom orientated... ie: a 70l slalom board, is a speed board for a 100kg person.

To answer the original question... as others have said, you can use a speed board in chop, but you really should use a big-arse fin.... it should be as big as you would normally use for that sail size. Of course, this will cause the board to "roll" more, so you need to compensate for this.

Also given that low-nose-rocker (and generally low-rocker overall) you really need put that mast right at the back of the track. In my case, I already run it almost all the way back... so this doesn't help much.


But as mentioned, if you are sailing on such rough water, use something else and have more fun... particularly if the chop-fetch is short...

KevinD002
226 posts
15 Apr 2014 8:04AM
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sailquik said..

I also agree!

But what we call a small slalom board, many people these days seem to call a speed board?!


Tell me about it...my AHD SL1 has a "Speed Slalom" label on it....what is it!



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"Using speed boards in the chop" started by mkseven