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2-3 Cams or No Cams for sails 7.8-8.6

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Created by FishMints 29 days ago, 24 Mar 2019
FishMints
SA, 80 posts
24 Mar 2019 11:44AM
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Hi crew - I'm looking for opinions/advice...

Cams or No Cams for sails 7.8+ for intermediate freeriding in lighter winds?

I have a 7.3m freeride no cam sail - kicks in at about 15+ knots, but I'd like something a bit bigger for even lighter winds 12-14 knots. I thought about a 7.8 (it would fit my current mast and boom) but is that a big enough jump in quiver range to get going in lighter winds?
So I'm thinking 8.2 or even an 8.6 instead.

It has been recommended to go with a 2-3 cam sail in those larger sizes instead of a no cam - as there'll be a more noticeable benefit with low end power and shape (compared to a no-cam at same sizes).

What do you think?

(The extra weight/rigging doesn't bother me but I'm not really ready for full race sails yet ...or foiling).

Cams would mean having to invest in 490 mast and bigger boom also.

Cheers

Orange Whip
QLD, 551 posts
24 Mar 2019 12:45PM
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If your 7.3 is a six batten, you would notice a significant increase in pulling power from a 7 batten, two cam sail as small as a 7.7. Like a NP V8 for example. I'd definitely be going a cammed sail for bigger than the 7.3, makes a big difference in lighter winds and staying on the plane through lulls.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6488 posts
24 Mar 2019 3:38PM
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The severne turbos are great easy usage sails that rotate well and are light. I have the 7.5m which is small compared to what you are looking at but big for my size.

Peter Hands
VIC, 50 posts
24 Mar 2019 5:30PM
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Cams for sure, well worth the minor hassles - but you need the correct mast or rotation may suffer

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1821 posts
24 Mar 2019 6:39PM
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I've recently gone camless on my 7m sail but will never do so on the 7.8m. The cams give the sail a great range, I can plane form 12 knots but still hold on it at 20 if I'm too lazy to change.

if you have a 460 mast there are a few 7.8+ sails out there that run a 460 mast, you just need to make sure it's the right curve.

Tardy
2888 posts
24 Mar 2019 3:47PM
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great question ,and hurt my head when thinking about it .when i was choosing ,but my mates always said go big or go home
cams will give more grunt ,but it will be heavier to use .
for 2 years i had a 7,0 cheetah
then a 8,5 cheetah no cam ,7 batten.it was a good space and it worked well
the 8,5 being no cam ,was light but still had the size to get up and go in 12 knots .
easy uphaul too .
i then added last year a 7,5 lion 2 cam .grunty ,and it was noticeable heavier to use .
i felt it was unnecessary to add it ,but yes it was faster .and good for blasting .
but seem you have a 7,3 .I would go for a 8,5 no cam if you want a light easy to use sail for 12-16 knots .
still fast mind you ,i've had 31 knots on my 8,5 cheetah ,not bad for free ride gear .also being lighter i can use it on my
115 board .because it is a lighter sail .
only my opinion

Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
24 Mar 2019 6:28PM
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i don't buy into the idea that cammed sails plane earlier.

big camless sails in my experience plane earlier. i've used camless up to 10.5m and weight savings is a real thing for early planing and ease of use.
where camless faulter is they seem to hit their top end quicker and don't work as well in gusty or overpowered conditions.

in gusty conditions big camless sails don't carry speed through lulls like big cammed so you drop off the plane earlier.

olskool
QLD, 1179 posts
24 Mar 2019 7:20PM
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Heres my experiences at GB. Mostly Gusty winds..I sail Ezzy. 8m cheetah a great camless sail. Loads of grunt n pretty fast.
7.5m Lion 2cam has same grunt but better top end. All in a smaller physical size.
My 8m cheetah now sits in the rack.

joe windsurf
1453 posts
24 Mar 2019 7:32PM
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Full on race sail with four cambers is definitely HEAVY
i have used sails in the 8.x range with no cambers, two cambers and four cambers
for 10 meter sails I have a 2 camber and a 4 camber race sail - the 2 camber is SO much lighter

so ... full on race is not for me as the average joe windsurfer

currently using a VERY light HSM SpeedFreak 8.5 with no cambers and dacron
love how light it is - they now offer them with one camber
my 10 meter GA/DUO Swift with 2 cambers is getting used A LOT

personally I prefer one or two cambers in sails over 8 meters
because I use them in light winds
in terms of flipping the cambers - have always had less issues with 2 cambers than 4

some people still prefer no cambers in a sail like the SW Retro - which is a hard downhaul sail - tight

if the wind is over 15 knots and i am planing - cambers are less of an issue
when I am going in lighter and hoping to plane through lulls - definitely prefer cambers

it is a personal choice, but yes - full on race is not for the mere mortals on a regular outing ...
no wide luff filling with water either ...
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2012/09/wide-luff-vs-free-race-sails.html

Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
24 Mar 2019 9:54PM
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something not mentioned yet that also comes into the equation is that no cam sails typically can't sail as deep off the wind and maintain speed like cammed sails do.

typically with a no cam sail the point of max draft is a little further back in the sail when compared to a cammed sail which has more of a knuckle. so for speed sailing cammed is usually better as it allows the sail to go deeper without stalling.

Mark _australia
WA, 18961 posts
25 Mar 2019 1:49AM
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As a wavesailor / 5x a year freerider: I can't believe anyone rigs a cambered sail ever unless they make money from it or aim to set a record.

I didn't read past the word "intermediate" in your post as that is the most telling part of your post - so I say camless.

Camless for 90% of windsurfers..... they are just so good now. Maybe cams for over 8.6 size but even then just a couple not a full race sail.

FWIW from a waver

515
123 posts
25 Mar 2019 12:57PM
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In gusty winds a 2-3 cam sail is a great option. Recently sailed a Maui sail 8.5m and great to plane early, stability with top end and rotation was smooth.
Hadn't sailed a cam sail for long time and second time was awesome.
Check out different brands as 7.8m should go on 460 mast some 8.lows may fit on 460.
Good luck

Obelix
WA, 837 posts
25 Mar 2019 9:28PM
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Cammed sails provide more power than the same size camless sails, but they are annoying.

Takes longer to rig up, need some extra effort when fliping the sail, less practical in chop, harder to water start...

I don't think I'll buy another cammed sail again, but then again, I mostly sail on the ocean.
It's probably a better option for experienced speed sailors.

Ben1973
190 posts
26 Mar 2019 12:41AM
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Can't remember the last time I sailed without cams. I don't seem to have any of the rotation, rigging, water starting issues anyone else has. All I seem to have is more power and stability which can't be a bad thing.

disclaimer, I don't play in waves

Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
26 Mar 2019 8:52PM
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Select to expand quote
Ben1973 said..
Can't remember the last time I sailed without cams. I don't seem to have any of the rotation, rigging, water starting issues anyone else has. All I seem to have is more power and stability which can't be a bad thing.

disclaimer, I don't play in waves



really, are you saying that cambered sails don't have rotational issues and are easy to waterstart. compared to what? you can't remember the last time you used a sail without cams.

the power thing is a myth. not to rant but it's not healthy for the sport to keep pushing the idea. there are plenty of examples around of sails without cams that are plenty powerful. the problem with this myth is it convinces newer members to windsurfing that to be any good they need the biggest sail possible to get going. technique seems to have taken a back seat. the bigger is better myth just leads to frustration for a lot of people.

look around your local spot. while some are out on 8.5m race sails others are ripping on 6.0m wave sails. stop and think about that next time your out blasting. there are plenty of examples in windsurfing of no cam sails having buckets of power. one design v raceboards on a triangle course. a one design has a 5.7m sail with no cams. it pulls like a tractor.

cams provide stability and that's about it. sail design provides the power. maybe the best advice for the op is lift your boom. lengthen your lines...

some myth busting.
easy-surfshop.com/do/blog/post/cams-or-no-cams-choosing-the-right-sail

FishMints
SA, 80 posts
26 Mar 2019 9:54PM
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Thanks for all the feedback.

I might see if I can get one (a 2-Cam) locally to try out before committing to any purchases or sizes and see how I go with it first.
(I was hoping to avoid sails gathering dust in the shed ...but I think its inevitable - as you need a good range of sails to get out more often)

I'm planning to only sail it in light conditions first, with smoothish water state - so probably won't even have to / or bother with, trying to waterstart it in light winds. Once its blowing and choppy - I'm down to a 6.2 and holding on hard

FishMints
SA, 80 posts
26 Mar 2019 10:30PM
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Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..

Ben1973 said..
Can't remember the last time I sailed without cams. I don't seem to have any of the rotation, rigging, water starting issues anyone else has. All I seem to have is more power and stability which can't be a bad thing.

disclaimer, I don't play in waves




really, are you saying that cambered sails don't have rotational issues and are easy to waterstart. compared to what? you can't remember the last time you used a sail without cams.

the power thing is a myth. not to rant but it's not healthy for the sport to keep pushing the idea. there are plenty of examples around of sails without cams that are plenty powerful. the problem with this myth is it convinces newer members to windsurfing that to be any good they need the biggest sail possible to get going. technique seems to have taken a back seat. the bigger is better myth just leads to frustration for a lot of people.

look around your local spot. while some are out on 8.5m race sails others are ripping on 6.0m wave sails. stop and think about that next time your out blasting. there are plenty of examples in windsurfing of no cam sails having buckets of power. one design v raceboards on a triangle course. a one design has a 5.7m sail with no cams. it pulls like a tractor.

cams provide stability and that's about it. sail design provides the power. maybe the best advice for the op is lift your boom. lengthen your lines...

some myth busting.
easy-surfshop.com/do/blog/post/cams-or-no-cams-choosing-the-right-sail


Thanks Gestalt. I'm not sure it makes my decision any easier, but the extra info is good to get - so a sincere thank you.

I thought the induced profile from cams would actually help with lighter winds ...and lulls - which are the conditions I initially tend to use it in.

As reference - my 7.3 is a 2015 NS E-Type - it looks good, barely used, well built etc - but always seemed to rig flat. I tuned the battens which helped add more profile and it helped quite a bit - but I find it still tends to have a narrow range...or should I say - its wind range starts higher than I was expecting. I've tweaked lots of things but never really been able to find a sweet spot for it ...yet. My mast is a Simmer 60% carbon 460 CC approx 2015 - so not that old or clapped out. I agree I probably need more time fine tuning and refining my technique to get the most out of it.

I just automatically assumed I simply need a bigger sail - and if I go bigger - well there's no point stopping at just the next size up of 7.8...hence my post.

I got a bit frustrated this last summer - the wind either kicked in too late in the day, or the days I was able to get out - it was still a touch too light for the 7.3.

Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
26 Mar 2019 10:41PM
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a cambered sail will help in gusty wind once planing because the sail keeps it's shape through the lulls.

the simmer mast is not ideal for the north sail. the simmer mast is heading towards flex top and north is pretty much middle of the road constant curve. for lighter wind its beneficial to have a tighter leach to induce more power in the sail. a flex mast in your sail will allow the head to lay off more.

sounds like a mast issue to me.

you either need a north mast or similar constant curve mast and rig to the dims or you need to rig the sail by eye to get it right on a simmer mast. you can't use the figures written on the sail. the etype is not a flat sail and if it is rigged flat then that is a sign all is not right and why you lack power.
try letting the downhaul off an inch or 2 and give the sail negative outhaul and then go sailing. if the sail feels very heavy then give it a cm more downhaul. set the downhaul for comfort when you are sailing.

in light winds rig your boom about nose/eye height and run longer lines. try 30in as an example. if you find you are kinda getting going but the nose of the board just won't break free then lift your boom 1cm and try again.

freestyle sailors use 5+m sails in 15 knots and plane with 20cm fins. it is very possible.

next is your board. maybe a wider board will help. how much do you weigh?

correct stance really helps to get going in light winds. hang off the harness lines to get going. pull down through the boom. it's best to not be a passenger and hook in and hope the wind does the work. don't hop in your straps until you are planning.

if you are 120kg + then yeah you need a bigger sail but try the other stuff first.

paddymac
WA, 917 posts
26 Mar 2019 11:05PM
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A topic that has fascinated me over the years. I mostly sail flatwater freeride, occasionally trying to go faster than the person next to me but I'm of average talent only so don't always succeed

I have tried 4 cam, 3 cam, 2 cam and no cam. Missed out on trying the Severne 1 cam but they looked interesting.

My $0.02 - as a freeride sailor my big sails are for LIGHT wind, I want them performing best in the lower end of their performance window (grunt). This is in contrast to someone who races and wants the most power possible in a given wind, so their sails need to perform in the upper end of the performance window (stability).

For an 8.6m (at ~90kg) I want a light sail, a grunty sail, a sail that is easy to pump. My personal quiver at the moment is no cam freerace 6.0 and 6.5, no cam freeride 7.5, and twin cam freeride 8.6 and a race 9.6 for a formula board. The 9.6 needs to have stability 'cause it gets used in quite gusty conditions and I need to be sure it can handle the top end.

The 8.6 twin cam has been great as my go to light wind sail. With a narrow-ish sleeve I think it might be quicker to rig that the 7.5 freeride - mast slides in so quick, cams pop on quick too. The cams actually help on those light wind occasions where I've dropped into the water from lack of wind - the cams help me keep the sail flying above the water. Hard to say if the cams actually provide benefit cruising through lulls - I can't feel it but it seems to make sense.

Haven't tried a no-cam yet in the 8.6 ish range but curious to give it a go.

Ben1973
190 posts
27 Mar 2019 12:48AM
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Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..

Ben1973 said..
Can't remember the last time I sailed without cams. I don't seem to have any of the rotation, rigging, water starting issues anyone else has. All I seem to have is more power and stability which can't be a bad thing.

disclaimer, I don't play in waves




really, are you saying that cambered sails don't have rotational issues and are easy to waterstart. compared to what? you can't remember the last time you used a sail without cams.

the power thing is a myth. not to rant but it's not healthy for the sport to keep pushing the idea. there are plenty of examples around of sails without cams that are plenty powerful. the problem with this myth is it convinces newer members to windsurfing that to be any good they need the biggest sail possible to get going. technique seems to have taken a back seat. the bigger is better myth just leads to frustration for a lot of people.

look around your local spot. while some are out on 8.5m race sails others are ripping on 6.0m wave sails. stop and think about that next time your out blasting. there are plenty of examples in windsurfing of no cam sails having buckets of power. one design v raceboards on a triangle course. a one design has a 5.7m sail with no cams. it pulls like a tractor.

cams provide stability and that's about it. sail design provides the power. maybe the best advice for the op is lift your boom. lengthen your lines...

some myth busting.
easy-surfshop.com/do/blog/post/cams-or-no-cams-choosing-the-right-sail


Yes exactly, never had rotational issues or problems waterstarting (caused by cams)
Pretty much every rotational issue I've know or has been mentioned on here is down to user error/wrong mast/wrong cam or rigged wrong.
as for power, a cammed sail holds its shape in less wind so can/should produce more power. The problem comes when they match that with a loose leech that dumps all that power. So yes sail design is what gives the sail power or lack of but cams can help in lower winds and add stability in higher winds so for me there's no down side.

Shifu
QLD, 1063 posts
27 Mar 2019 4:13PM
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Fishmints, we need to know how heavy you are and what board you are using. Orherwise this assistance is all speculation.

FishMints
SA, 80 posts
27 Mar 2019 6:17PM
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Weight = 83kg.
Board = 79 wide 293 long 205L 13kg (which really sucks carrying around BTW) ...a BicTechno293OD to be exact.
Plenty of float, plenty of width.
Fin = 46 Select Ride (might pick up a 50 if I end up going for a 8.5/8.6 sail)

Next board will be similar width but lighter and 120-130L - so expecting current sails and any possible new ones to still be suitable for new board too.

Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
27 Mar 2019 8:09PM
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hi fishmints.

knowing your gear and your weight only makes me more confident my advice above was on the money for you.
please re read my post. you do not need a bigger sail or cams or 7 battens.

you just need to work through your sail rigging and practice your stance. a 7.3m sail on your board in 15 knots at your weight should see you easily planing.

sounds like you've gotten some bad advice and this thread has not changed that.

to put things into context. i am 100kg, my board is 72 wide 120lt and i am planing in 15 knots on a 6.2m wave sail. (no cams)

can you find someone that doesn't think bigger is better to help you with setup? my post above outlines all of the points for you but there is nothing better than working it out on the beach with someone that knows whats going on with gear.

FishMints
SA, 80 posts
27 Mar 2019 10:59PM
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Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..
hi fishmints.

knowing your gear and your weight only makes me more confident my advice above was on the money for you.
please re read my post. you do not need a bigger sail or cams or 7 battens.

you just need to work through your sail rigging and practice your stance. a 7.3m sail on your board in 15 knots at your weight should see you easily planing.

sounds like you've gotten some bad advice and this thread has not changed that.

to put things into context. i am 100kg, my board is 72 wide 120lt and i am planing in 15 knots on a 6.2m wave sail. (no cams)

can you find someone that doesn't think bigger is better to help you with setup? my post above outlines all of the points for you but there is nothing better than working it out on the beach with someone that knows whats going on with gear.


15+ is not the issue. I'm talking light 12-14. but I have no doubt I need to improve in lots of little areas in any case.

IWB
117 posts
27 Mar 2019 10:56PM
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Fishmints,
Upgrading your BicTechno to a freerace lightweight board will certainly help you get planning more easily and making riding in lighter winds much more enjoyable. For example you could go to something like the Starboard Ultrasonic 147. Bonus is that it is designed to accept foils making it a very versatile option for foiling and non foiling in lightwinds.
In terms of rigs for lightwind sailing, go up to a 8 / 8.5m cam or no cam sail will be sufficient. Make sure you compliment your new sail with the proper mast and in most cases the highest carbon % mast you can get/afford. Having the wrong bend curved mast will not allow you to get the best performance from your sail. If you really want to have a bad ass rig setup, ensure you have a lightweight stiff, carbon boom. The non cammed sail for sure will likely feel slightly lighter in most cases. I would normally give the slight edge in low end performance to the cammed sail. I guess a lot comes down to the make and model of sail you choose which can determine what type of performance it will offer. I would recommend going for the freerace sails as they are pretty light, easier to rig and offer great performance.

Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
28 Mar 2019 7:22AM
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Select to expand quote
FishMints said..

Gestalt said..
hi fishmints.

knowing your gear and your weight only makes me more confident my advice above was on the money for you.
please re read my post. you do not need a bigger sail or cams or 7 battens.

you just need to work through your sail rigging and practice your stance. a 7.3m sail on your board in 15 knots at your weight should see you easily planing.

sounds like you've gotten some bad advice and this thread has not changed that.

to put things into context. i am 100kg, my board is 72 wide 120lt and i am planing in 15 knots on a 6.2m wave sail. (no cams)

can you find someone that doesn't think bigger is better to help you with setup? my post above outlines all of the points for you but there is nothing better than working it out on the beach with someone that knows whats going on with gear.



15+ is not the issue. I'm talking light 12-14. but I have no doubt I need to improve in lots of little areas in any case.


Yes its possible to plane in 12-14 knots with your gear.

RobITA
15 posts
28 Mar 2019 7:28PM
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I've used Neil Pryde cambered sails for about 20 years then I've switched to the Point7 ACX and it's incredible how works this sail. Never mind for the gusts, as strong are the gusts as fast is the sail. I weight 67 kg and with my 5.8 can manage gusts even over 35 knots.
point-7.com/gear/sails/zero19/ac-x/

firerock
13 posts
29 Mar 2019 12:05PM
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FishMints,
I have to agree with what IWB posted about upgrading your board. The larger freerace offerings like the Fanatic/Jag and Goya/Bolt would be a significant improvement, and maybe all you need for now.
FWIW, I have both the Ezzy Cheetah & Lion 7.5m. Haven't touched the cheetah in 3 years.
In light gusty winds, my preference is always the cammed sail... and sailing it deep off wind is the bees' knees'!

jirvin4505
QLD, 999 posts
29 Mar 2019 9:39PM
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I'm one of typical keen beginner/intermediate sailers who has ended up on bigger and bigger gear in the quest to get going. Probably the bad example your mother warned you about.

Yes i I have been suitably and sometimes relentlessly admonished for the large gear choices I have made. Some would still have me on learner boards admonishing me for having gear that is too 'technical' even if I am having fun and remaining in the sport

Occasionally by sailers standing watching not going out in light winds because they like wind a little more developed = yes I was on 'uncool' large gear but was able to go sailing

The common call being ' you can get going on smaller gear' and yes even on sailing days when I see my experienced sailing buddy get going on 2m smaller 'cam' sail there was me with or without cams 1-2m bigger however I'm out having fun on the plane. Sometimes it is what it is...

My long standing argument is that I didn't end up on large gear by accident! It's what it took to progress and get going in a wide variety of conditions.

I relate to the frustration the Op must feel being out on the water not going whilst those around him are going maybe in smaller gear. Look around at see what others are sailing at your level

My my son races 293 techno at 75kg and has recently upgraded to techno plus (8.5 cam 50cm fin) from techno (7.8 46 fin). The main reason for the upgrade is to balance the racing against the lightweight kids who plan easily in light winds = typically 10-12 knots At your weight on a techno the larger sail will give you more planing time in light winds

Depends on what you what you want from your sailing. Schlogging around not getting going but staying on the gear that will/maybe get you going when you have enough experience planing to know how to get little gear planing => oh the irony (another day lost) or going bigger get planing and learn a lot about handling bigger gear than when you have much more experience you can work your way back down in size ... board and sail.

All in all what's to loose going bigger?? The board can handle it. What's not to like about getting going vs watching others get going

cams?. I started with free ride 6.7 north on proper mast. 90kg beginner. I received many useful suggestions on how to rig it = all different! Then there was the day I rigged a hand me down cam sail (old Bic 6.8) couldn't believe how much easier to handle. Without hesitation I then started collecting ezzy lions (2cam) and not regretted the sailing performance since 7.5 8.5 and 9.5

If you fall for windsurfing you will collect gear that's gets you going ... period. That may mean, as it was for me, Old long boards, big fat boards, old school narrow boards and whatever is cheap on gumtree as try and see. Yes the early purchace dollars are difficult but it gets easier

if you get frustrated at not getting the 7.3 going and are hesitant to go bigger than find an old school longboard (lightning F2 etc) you will then have a different way to enjoy light winds

A video capturing those early successes with planing.. light winds ...getting into footstraps. On big gear (for which I received much derision) absolutely enjoying myself. Note my mentor (very experienced) couldn't get going on his smaller gear and got out the old Wally to have a sail.



Reviewing this its it's turned into a bit of a ramble ,, trying to say I sense and relate to the desire to get going in lighter winds. For me it was a journey into larger and alternate gear. With more experience my most common sail is still the 8.5 however I'm much more equivalent to others on similar gear these days. Interestingly I don't often see the 'get going with small' sailers out on days when I'm having fun on my big gear.... or they are sailing their Wally one designs (also a usefull Avenue to explore)

cheers Jeff

Ps My son now can use my big gear to get going when most of us including experienced sailers are sitting on beach. ... there also alternatives. Foils and windSups went out.

Mark _australia
WA, 18961 posts
30 Mar 2019 5:50PM
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All good advice above but some posters need to think - he is not trying to get going in "light wind"

He is 83kg, trying to get a bloody big board planing in 12-14 kn

Geez, I plane a 135L in 15-18 with a 7.5 to 8m freeride sail - camless- and I am 100kg. He should be out of control on a Techno 293 in that wind.


Cambered sails are NOT that powerful. They are stable. They are used in much higher wind strengths.

For bottom end grunt freeriding, and not doing crazy angles up/down wind, a non cambered sail is easier to rig, almost as fast, and a smaller size may well do it. For example I have ditched the 7.5m NCX and 121L Carve, for a 6.4m Gaastra Cross (a powerful wave sail really) and a 116L FSW. I only need a couple knots more (if that) and it is wayyy more comfortable, manouverable, fun.

Look at what wind you use a 6.5 Gator / Cross etc in, vs a 6.5 cambered race sail. What..... about 20kn vs 30kn? Even 20 vs 35 perhaps.

Size is not the be-all and end-all, in fact in recent years it has become confusing for intermediates.

Camless. Camless.


Camless. For most people, most of the time.










Gestalt
QLD, 11964 posts
30 Mar 2019 7:54PM
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Select to expand quote
jirvin4505 said..
I'm one of typical keen beginner/intermediate sailers who has ended up on bigger and bigger gear in the quest to get going. Probably the bad example your mother warned you about.

Yes i I have been suitably and sometimes relentlessly admonished for the large gear choices I have made. Some would still have me on learner boards admonishing me for having gear that is too 'technical' even if I am having fun and remaining in the sport

Occasionally by sailers standing watching not going out in light winds because they like wind a little more developed = yes I was on 'uncool' large gear but was able to go sailing

The common call being ' you can get going on smaller gear' and yes even on sailing days when I see my experienced sailing buddy get going on 2m smaller 'cam' sail there was me with or without cams 1-2m bigger however I'm out having fun on the plane. Sometimes it is what it is...

My long standing argument is that I didn't end up on large gear by accident! It's what it took to progress and get going in a wide variety of conditions.

I relate to the frustration the Op must feel being out on the water not going whilst those around him are going maybe in smaller gear. Look around at see what others are sailing at your level

My my son races 293 techno at 75kg and has recently upgraded to techno plus (8.5 cam 50cm fin) from techno (7.8 46 fin). The main reason for the upgrade is to balance the racing against the lightweight kids who plan easily in light winds = typically 10-12 knots At your weight on a techno the larger sail will give you more planing time in light winds

Depends on what you what you want from your sailing. Schlogging around not getting going but staying on the gear that will/maybe get you going when you have enough experience planing to know how to get little gear planing => oh the irony (another day lost) or going bigger get planing and learn a lot about handling bigger gear than when you have much more experience you can work your way back down in size ... board and sail.

All in all what's to loose going bigger?? The board can handle it. What's not to like about getting going vs watching others get going

cams?. I started with free ride 6.7 north on proper mast. 90kg beginner. I received many useful suggestions on how to rig it = all different! Then there was the day I rigged a hand me down cam sail (old Bic 6.8) couldn't believe how much easier to handle. Without hesitation I then started collecting ezzy lions (2cam) and not regretted the sailing performance since 7.5 8.5 and 9.5

If you fall for windsurfing you will collect gear that's gets you going ... period. That may mean, as it was for me, Old long boards, big fat boards, old school narrow boards and whatever is cheap on gumtree as try and see. Yes the early purchace dollars are difficult but it gets easier

if you get frustrated at not getting the 7.3 going and are hesitant to go bigger than find an old school longboard (lightning F2 etc) you will then have a different way to enjoy light winds

A video capturing those early successes with planing.. light winds ...getting into footstraps. On big gear (for which I received much derision) absolutely enjoying myself. Note my mentor (very experienced) couldn't get going on his smaller gear and got out the old Wally to have a sail.



Reviewing this its it's turned into a bit of a ramble ,, trying to say I sense and relate to the desire to get going in lighter winds. For me it was a journey into larger and alternate gear. With more experience my most common sail is still the 8.5 however I'm much more equivalent to others on similar gear these days. Interestingly I don't often see the 'get going with small' sailers out on days when I'm having fun on my big gear.... or they are sailing their Wally one designs (also a usefull Avenue to explore)

cheers Jeff

Ps My son now can use my big gear to get going when most of us including experienced sailers are sitting on beach. ... there also alternatives. Foils and windSups went out.



No ones bagging out big gear jeff.

the op has a mast not working in a sail. Why tell him to buy more gear if he hasnt got a grip on the gear he currently has.

as if the solution is to spend another couple of grand buying more gear.




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"2-3 Cams or No Cams for sails 7.8-8.6" started by FishMints