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JP Slalom vs Supersport

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Created by Maddlad 1 month ago, 27 May 2020
Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
27 May 2020 7:25AM
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Hi everyone,

I'm looking for input on the difference between JP Slalom boards and Supersport boards from anyone who has had both. Im wanting to know the difference in performance vs comfort or anything else that is different between the two etc so if anyone can elaborate on the pros n cons of either board that would be greatly appreciated.

LeeD
1478 posts
27 May 2020 10:14AM
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No one would own both, in the same size.
Pros and those near that level can appreciate the acceleration of the lighter Slalom, which generally have shorter flats up from the tail compared to SS.
Longer flat rocker of SS gives us amateurs easier acceleration with some limit in top speeds.
Lighter Sl generally needs .7 to 2 meters more sail to get full potential. This adds jibe and handling difficulties for amateur experts.
Lighter freeride sails work well with SS, while bigger, heavier, more locked in sails are needed to hold slalom boards down.
Obviously, SS is heavier than Slalom, so more durable.

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
27 May 2020 10:42AM
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Well that's not true, I know someone in WA that has had both and so I've emailed him to get his input, but I thought I'd open it up to the forum to see if anyone else had anything to ad. I'm looking for real world experience, not manufacturers claims etc.

izaak
TAS, 1931 posts
27 May 2020 4:34PM
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Hi mate, depending on what you're aiming to get out of it? Plus the majority of time you'd use it in? Choppy or flat water.
I have had both in the past. Both great boards. But now only JP slaloms. The slalom definitely a little harsher in choppy conditions. But probably a little faster top end? I'd near bet. With the right fin/sail combo there wouldn't be much difference in performance. Just from my past experience with both.
I'd stick to a JP slalom, but that's just me. Other thing to know, is the SS boards still power box or Tuttle now?
SS was certainly a little more comfy in the chop. But did seem stick down in the flat stuff? But that could have been the day I tried one. And my set up?
Hope this helps? Cheers

LeeD
1478 posts
28 May 2020 12:21AM
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Still depends if you actually have the skills and energy to ride Slalom over fast freeride.
Since a meter sail bigger is normal for slalom, and normally more, it's a handful to jibe, rig, and carry. The shorter flat off the tail requires more constant power, and the lighter weight, while accelerating well when fully powered, also SLOWS DOWN quicker with the slightest loss of sail power or momentum, mainly hurting in jibes.
This is why both are made....different skill sets.
'10 Futura and '10 Isonic 111's.
'12 JP SS 109 vs Slalom
'16 Tabou Speedster vs Manta 100 and 103.

LeeD
1478 posts
28 May 2020 12:25AM
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Yes, I've owned one of each, and tried it's higher end brother at least 3 times, owned 2 of them.
My skillset rewards fast freeride over slalom.

izaak
TAS, 1931 posts
28 May 2020 6:54AM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Still depends if you actually have the skills and energy to ride Slalom over fast freeride.
Since a meter sail bigger is normal for slalom, and normally more, it's a handful to jibe, rig, and carry. The shorter flat off the tail requires more constant power, and the lighter weight, while accelerating well when fully powered, also SLOWS DOWN quicker with the slightest loss of sail power or momentum, mainly hurting in jibes.
This is why both are made....different skill sets.
'10 Futura and '10 Isonic 111's.
'12 JP SS 109 vs Slalom
'16 Tabou Speedster vs Manta 100 and 103.




Are we in the PWA?
Exactly what my first sentence suggests? What exactly is he wanting to get out of it... For the general sailor, as I stated, the right set up, there would be bugger all performance loss or gain. Any average sailor would notice. Both have pros and cons. Hence the original question, wanting to know how they perform/compare

So you've owned a 8-10 year old JP board SS?

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
28 May 2020 7:38AM
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Select to expand quote
izaak said..

LeeD said..
Still depends if you actually have the skills and energy to ride Slalom over fast freeride.
Since a meter sail bigger is normal for slalom, and normally more, it's a handful to jibe, rig, and carry. The shorter flat off the tail requires more constant power, and the lighter weight, while accelerating well when fully powered, also SLOWS DOWN quicker with the slightest loss of sail power or momentum, mainly hurting in jibes.
This is why both are made....different skill sets.
'10 Futura and '10 Isonic 111's.
'12 JP SS 109 vs Slalom
'16 Tabou Speedster vs Manta 100 and 103.





Are we in the PWA?
Exactly what my first sentence suggests? What exactly is he wanting to get out of it... For the general sailor, as I stated, the right set up, there would be bugger all performance loss or gain. Any average sailor would notice. Both have pros and cons. Hence the original question, wanting to know how they perform/compare

So you've owned a 8-10 year old JP board SS?


Thanks for your input mate. To answer your question in a roundabout way, I race and use slalom boards, but I have issues with my front foot wanting to bounce out of the footstrap at speed which apart from being dangerous, slows me down because I'm having to fight my gear constantly. I have tried so many different ways to fix the issue, including talking directly with PWA pros and even the sailmaker of my gear and nothing seems to get rid of the problem. I have tried different brands of sail and boards, tried changing my stance etc, but still the same problem. The only board that I can ride comfortably is my Rocket, but then its not as quick as I need it to be for racing. I was wondering if the SS was a bit more like the rocket being a freerace style board, yet still quick enough for me to use it racing because im desperately searching for a way to enjoy my slalom sailing again.

LeeD
1478 posts
28 May 2020 8:29AM
Thumbs Up

2016 Speedster and Manta. Never brought both at the same time.
Rocket is smooth riding windspeed freeride
Speedster is fast freeride...much faster.
Manta is lighter and more responsive, so needs bigger heavier sails.
The diff between fast freeride to slalom existed since 1985. Nothing new there.
Just the same old.......

LeeD
1478 posts
28 May 2020 12:19PM
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Lower boom to weight front foot.

Tardy
3547 posts
28 May 2020 12:52PM
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Hey maddlad, I'm a 105 and 125 rocket user too ...but last year i thought I'd buy a slalom carbon 116 litre Manta ,i brought a new super seeded 2018 model ,unchanged this year again ...i thought ..oh here we go again ..sore ankle time ...but to my surprise it is very smooth ,
and very much like a freerace ..but very fast ..but I'm loving it just as a blasting board ,I don't race .but this is also a board you might want to look at ..I think you are right with the JP wood models Being nicer to ride in chop .wood seems to absorb bumps ,on one of my rockets I went from 105 CED to carbon model LTD .the LTD is noisier and a little more rigid ..i think i like the CED .. JP's look like great boards .
GOOD luck .if it was me i would go super sports,WA sure does have some short chop .When the wind gets up

choco
SA, 3548 posts
28 May 2020 5:49PM
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Hey Bud, maybe you should use the slalom in the bigger size and a Super Sport as the medium High wind board, you need more control in those conditions so speed shouldn't be an issue.

kato
VIC, 2755 posts
28 May 2020 8:41PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Maddlad said..

izaak said..


LeeD said..
Still depends if you actually have the skills and energy to ride Slalom over fast freeride.
Since a meter sail bigger is normal for slalom, and normally more, it's a handful to jibe, rig, and carry. The shorter flat off the tail requires more constant power, and the lighter weight, while accelerating well when fully powered, also SLOWS DOWN quicker with the slightest loss of sail power or momentum, mainly hurting in jibes.
This is why both are made....different skill sets.
'10 Futura and '10 Isonic 111's.
'12 JP SS 109 vs Slalom
'16 Tabou Speedster vs Manta 100 and 103.






Are we in the PWA?
Exactly what my first sentence suggests? What exactly is he wanting to get out of it... For the general sailor, as I stated, the right set up, there would be bugger all performance loss or gain. Any average sailor would notice. Both have pros and cons. Hence the original question, wanting to know how they perform/compare

So you've owned a 8-10 year old JP board SS?



Thanks for your input mate. To answer your question in a roundabout way, I race and use slalom boards, but I have issues with my front foot wanting to bounce out of the footstrap at speed which apart from being dangerous, slows me down because I'm having to fight my gear constantly. I have tried so many different ways to fix the issue, including talking directly with PWA pros and even the sailmaker of my gear and nothing seems to get rid of the problem. I have tried different brands of sail and boards, tried changing my stance etc, but still the same problem. The only board that I can ride comfortably is my Rocket, but then its not as quick as I need it to be for racing. I was wondering if the SS was a bit more like the rocket being a freerace style board, yet still quick enough for me to use it racing because im desperately searching for a way to enjoy my slalom sailing again.


I had the same issue of losing the front foot with a major brand. After trying all different set up changes I moved to a different brand that builds for normal people with a closer strap setup. My test now is this ... elbow to mid finger distance is my idea foot strap distance between the front and back straps. Then from the front strap to centre of mast track is the same measurement.
This setup Then allows me to push and dance off the fin with lots of confidence. You could make up a plate to move the front strap and narrow your stance without costing dollars that may not help.

duzzi
254 posts
28 May 2020 11:23PM
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Select to expand quote
Maddlad said..
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for input on the difference between JP Slalom boards and Supersport boards from anyone who has had both. Im wanting to know the difference in performance vs comfort or anything else that is different between the two etc so if anyone can elaborate on the pros n cons of either board that would be greatly appreciated.

I have not used either but the usual differences between full on race boards and freerace probably apply. For the sake of discussion let's say that sail size used for maximum performance is the about same. If this is your light air board I see no reason not to buy a slalom board. If this is your medium wind board the freerace will give you not so much more comfort but a less technical ride. The asset requirements of a slalom race are often tighter than a free race, they are boards designed to be used for minutes. not hours, and require a lot of attention to be used efficiently. Add the unavoidable chop and a freerace might be easier to hold in asset if marginally slower ... if you were racing in competitions were seconds matter.

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 7:18AM
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Select to expand quote
Tardy said..
Hey maddlad, I'm a 105 and 125 rocket user too ...but last year i thought I'd buy a slalom carbon 116 litre Manta ,i brought a new super seeded 2018 model ,unchanged this year again ...i thought ..oh here we go again ..sore ankle time ...but to my surprise it is very smooth ,
and very much like a freerace ..but very fast ..but I'm loving it just as a blasting board ,I don't race .but this is also a board you might want to look at ..I think you are right with the JP wood models Being nicer to ride in chop .wood seems to absorb bumps ,on one of my rockets I went from 105 CED to carbon model LTD .the LTD is noisier and a little more rigid ..i think i like the CED .. JP's look like great boards .
GOOD luck .if it was me i would go super sports,WA sure does have some short chop .When the wind gets up


Hi Tardy,

Thanks for your input mate. Yes I have tried the 2018 Manta and although it is a nice soft ride, I still had the same front foot issues with it. I have a mate who has that exact board and we are looking at trying a few more set up changes to see if it might help and if so I may buy it from him. The JP's are fantastic boards, they are very quick and perform well, I just think I my be too light to take full advantage of them. I'll keep working on it. Cheers :)

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 7:21AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
choco said..
Hey Bud, maybe you should use the slalom in the bigger size and a Super Sport as the medium High wind board, you need more control in those conditions so speed shouldn't be an issue.


Hi Choco,

Thanks for your input. I use a slalom board for my light wind racing board and my medium racing/blasting board, but my high wind boards are all free-race/ride boards in Rockets, Carves, FSW etc. Im trying to work out if the SS will alleviate some of my issues in that medium size. I have a friend who is bringing up a supersport on the weekend so hopefully I can try that, the only issue is that its in a smaller size, not the 113 litre area which is what my medium slalom is.

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 7:23AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
kato said..

Maddlad said..


izaak said..



LeeD said..
Still depends if you actually have the skills and energy to ride Slalom over fast freeride.
Since a meter sail bigger is normal for slalom, and normally more, it's a handful to jibe, rig, and carry. The shorter flat off the tail requires more constant power, and the lighter weight, while accelerating well when fully powered, also SLOWS DOWN quicker with the slightest loss of sail power or momentum, mainly hurting in jibes.
This is why both are made....different skill sets.
'10 Futura and '10 Isonic 111's.
'12 JP SS 109 vs Slalom
'16 Tabou Speedster vs Manta 100 and 103.







Are we in the PWA?
Exactly what my first sentence suggests? What exactly is he wanting to get out of it... For the general sailor, as I stated, the right set up, there would be bugger all performance loss or gain. Any average sailor would notice. Both have pros and cons. Hence the original question, wanting to know how they perform/compare

So you've owned a 8-10 year old JP board SS?




Thanks for your input mate. To answer your question in a roundabout way, I race and use slalom boards, but I have issues with my front foot wanting to bounce out of the footstrap at speed which apart from being dangerous, slows me down because I'm having to fight my gear constantly. I have tried so many different ways to fix the issue, including talking directly with PWA pros and even the sailmaker of my gear and nothing seems to get rid of the problem. I have tried different brands of sail and boards, tried changing my stance etc, but still the same problem. The only board that I can ride comfortably is my Rocket, but then its not as quick as I need it to be for racing. I was wondering if the SS was a bit more like the rocket being a freerace style board, yet still quick enough for me to use it racing because im desperately searching for a way to enjoy my slalom sailing again.



I had the same issue of losing the front foot with a major brand. After trying all different set up changes I moved to a different brand that builds for normal people with a closer strap setup. My test now is this ... elbow to mid finger distance is my idea foot strap distance between the front and back straps. Then from the front strap to centre of mast track is the same measurement.
This setup Then allows me to push and dance off the fin with lots of confidence. You could make up a plate to move the front strap and narrow your stance without costing dollars that may not help.


Thanks Kato, I will have a look at my board to see if I can get that set up and give it a try. :)

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 7:26AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

Maddlad said..
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for input on the difference between JP Slalom boards and Supersport boards from anyone who has had both. Im wanting to know the difference in performance vs comfort or anything else that is different between the two etc so if anyone can elaborate on the pros n cons of either board that would be greatly appreciated.


I have not used either but the usual differences between full on race boards and freerace probably apply. For the sake of discussion let's say that sail size used for maximum performance is the about same. If this is your light air board I see no reason not to buy a slalom board. If this is your medium wind board the freerace will give you not so much more comfort but a less technical ride. The asset requirements of a slalom race are often tighter than a free race, they are boards designed to be used for minutes. not hours, and require a lot of attention to be used efficiently. Add the unavoidable chop and a freerace might be easier to hold in asset if marginally slower ... if you were racing in competitions were seconds matter.


Thanks Duzzi, I currently use a large slalom board in light air and a medium slalom board for racing. I use a freerace (Rocket) for high wind racing and blasting. You're right about the slalom races not being long, but even then if you're struggling to keep your foot in the strap you're not concentrating on racing which is not good. Ill keep trying some different things and see if I can solve it. Cheers :)

Tardy
3547 posts
29 May 2020 11:29AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Maddlad said..



Tardy said..
Hey maddlad, I'm a 105 and 125 rocket user too ...but last year i thought I'd buy a slalom carbon 116 litre Manta ,i brought a new super seeded 2018 model ,unchanged this year again ...i thought ..oh here we go again ..sore ankle time ...but to my surprise it is very smooth ,
and very much like a freerace ..but very fast ..but I'm loving it just as a blasting board ,I don't race .but this is also a board you might want to look at ..I think you are right with the JP wood models Being nicer to ride in chop .wood seems to absorb bumps ,on one of my rockets I went from 105 CED to carbon model LTD .the LTD is noisier and a little more rigid ..i think i like the CED .. JP's look like great boards .
GOOD luck .if it was me i would go super sports,WA sure does have some short chop .When the wind gets up





Hi Tardy,

Thanks for your input mate. Yes I have tried the 2018 Manta and although it is a nice soft ride, I still had the same front foot issues with it. I have a mate who has that exact board and we are looking at trying a few more set up changes to see if it might help and if so I may buy it from him. The JP's are fantastic boards, they are very quick and perform well, I just think I my be too light to take full advantage of them. I'll keep working on it. Cheers :)




Wow .thats a tough question your got going with the front foot problem .

i don't know if this helps ,but i had problems riding Slalom boards to start ..
namely 122 and 140 Patrik's ,and still till this day ,i can only ride them with the mast base set right at the back .

thinking it could be a board length issue and preference ,and muscle memory ,which is your body gets use to sailing one way .
dunno ?..i would get someone to film you ,you might just have a original style mate

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 12:40PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Tardy said..

Maddlad said..




Tardy said..
Hey maddlad, I'm a 105 and 125 rocket user too ...but last year i thought I'd buy a slalom carbon 116 litre Manta ,i brought a new super seeded 2018 model ,unchanged this year again ...i thought ..oh here we go again ..sore ankle time ...but to my surprise it is very smooth ,
and very much like a freerace ..but very fast ..but I'm loving it just as a blasting board ,I don't race .but this is also a board you might want to look at ..I think you are right with the JP wood models Being nicer to ride in chop .wood seems to absorb bumps ,on one of my rockets I went from 105 CED to carbon model LTD .the LTD is noisier and a little more rigid ..i think i like the CED .. JP's look like great boards .
GOOD luck .if it was me i would go super sports,WA sure does have some short chop .When the wind gets up






Hi Tardy,

Thanks for your input mate. Yes I have tried the 2018 Manta and although it is a nice soft ride, I still had the same front foot issues with it. I have a mate who has that exact board and we are looking at trying a few more set up changes to see if it might help and if so I may buy it from him. The JP's are fantastic boards, they are very quick and perform well, I just think I my be too light to take full advantage of them. I'll keep working on it. Cheers :)





Wow .thats a tough question your got going with the front foot problem .

i don't know if this helps ,but i had problems riding Slalom boards to start ..
namely 122 and 140 Patrik's ,and still till this day ,i can only ride them with the mast base set right at the back .

thinking it could be a board length issue and preference ,and muscle memory ,which is your body gets use to sailing one way .
dunno ?..i would get someone to film you ,you might just have a original style mate


Haha thanks Tardy. I don't think I'm doing anything too unusual. I've sailed with Cribby and haven't had anything said along the lines that I'm unusual - well not for sailing anyway.

LeeD
1478 posts
29 May 2020 1:16PM
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Straps back forces you to weight feet forward to avoid wheelies.
Lower boom loads front foot.

poehaaa
49 posts
29 May 2020 1:50PM
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Have you tried a medium board for lighter riders? Tabou has a 106/66 Manta in the range and that board is a lot easier to control than the 71 wide (the medium board for a 90kg+ PWA pro).

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 2:52PM
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Select to expand quote
poehaaa said..
Have you tried a medium board for lighter riders? Tabou has a 106/66 Manta in the range and that board is a lot easier to control than the 71 wide (the medium board for a 90kg+ PWA pro).


Hi Poehaa,

Yes I tried that as my local shop and I thought that might be the case, but it didn't fix the issue unfortunately. It was a nice board though.

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 2:53PM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Straps back forces you to weight feet forward to avoid wheelies.
Lower boom loads front foot.


Straps are as far back as I can go,the boom is at the bottom of the cutout which doesn't solve the problem entirely and makes it hard to fly the board as well as not being able to point.

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 2:56PM
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I appreciate all the input so far guys. Thanks for trying to help.

kato
VIC, 2755 posts
29 May 2020 5:26PM
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Cribby's slow . Try a narrower set up as you're talking about all the same issues that I had. Dropping the boom solves one problem by creating another. Remember try one change at a time

choco
SA, 3548 posts
29 May 2020 5:27PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Maddlad said..

LeeD said..
Straps back forces you to weight feet forward to avoid wheelies.
Lower boom loads front foot.



Straps are as far back as I can go,the boom is at the bottom of the cutout which doesn't solve the problem entirely and makes it hard to fly the board as well as not being able to point.


Maybe it's not the board setup but sail downhaul, try everything go from one extreme to the other

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 3:58PM
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Select to expand quote
kato said..
Cribby's slow . Try a narrower set up as you're talking about all the same issues that I had. Dropping the boom solves one problem by creating another. Remember try one change at a time


Haha well he's faster than me, so that's a good start.

When you fo your measurements from front to back straps, are you measuring from the front of the straps or from the middle where your foot goes?

Maddlad
WA, 480 posts
29 May 2020 3:59PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
choco said..

Maddlad said..


LeeD said..
Straps back forces you to weight feet forward to avoid wheelies.
Lower boom loads front foot.




Straps are as far back as I can go,the boom is at the bottom of the cutout which doesn't solve the problem entirely and makes it hard to fly the board as well as not being able to point.



Maybe it's not the board setup but sail downhaul, try everything go from one extreme to the other


Yeah tried all that too Choco. Cribby said to try extremes of downhaul on and off but it didn't make any difference to the front foot, it just made the sail **** to use.

choco
SA, 3548 posts
29 May 2020 6:39PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Maddlad said..

choco said..


Maddlad said..



LeeD said..
Straps back forces you to weight feet forward to avoid wheelies.
Lower boom loads front foot.





Straps are as far back as I can go,the boom is at the bottom of the cutout which doesn't solve the problem entirely and makes it hard to fly the board as well as not being able to point.




Maybe it's not the board setup but sail downhaul, try everything go from one extreme to the other



Yeah tried all that too Choco. Cribby said to try extremes of downhaul on and off but it didn't make any difference to the front foot, it just made the sail **** to use.


Have you tried someone else's kit? it must be something soo simple you will find it by mistake.

seanhogan
3171 posts
29 May 2020 5:28PM
Thumbs Up

moving the mast base ?

or bend ze knees !!!



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"JP Slalom vs Supersport" started by Maddlad