Forums > Windsurfing Wave sailing

Are we sailing or surfing? Right of Way in the waves

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Created by BFlood 3 months ago, 23 Jan 2019
BFlood
NSW, 166 posts
23 Jan 2019 3:24PM
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Open book...I'm new here, I usually mow the lawn but I decided to try something new. Just looking for answers so I don't run into anyone.

Question 1: Encountered an interesting scenario during my first day on the waves. Cross/off breeze, waves crumbling in the same direction as the wind. Sailor A, established on a wave, sailor B chasing and overtaking the wave. Sailor A performs a bottom turn and encounters sailor B.

Has sailor A failed to stay upwind as per sailing RoW, OR, has sailer B dropped in on sailer A as per surfing RoW?


Question 2: Does sailing inside the break change the standard head to head Port/Starboard rule? If so, who gives way?

stehsegler
WA, 2958 posts
23 Jan 2019 3:18PM
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Sailing right of way rules generally don't apply when we are talking breaking surf.

As a general rule:

- sailor on the way out should go wide, especially on waves were the sailor coming in might not be able to go straight
- sailor on wave coming in should give way to sailor going out, especially in bigger waves
- sailor waiting the longest, furthest out, furthest up wind gets the wave
- don't get on a wave that already has a sailor on it
- try to avoid parking for a wave, although that's sometimes unavoidable

gesper
NSW, 503 posts
23 Jan 2019 8:29PM
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Sailor A clearly had ROW being on the wave first and also being up wind of sailor B . Sailor B should have given up that wave , turned around to catch the one behind " IF " no one was on it or kept going out to get back into the line up.

gorgesailor
158 posts
24 Jan 2019 2:03AM
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....Also sailor "B" appears to be overtaking, so either way in the wrong.

Foghorn
WA, 129 posts
24 Jan 2019 6:25AM
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Kitesurfers also seem to have their own rules most windsurfers play the game right.

BFlood
NSW, 166 posts
24 Jan 2019 9:43AM
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Cheers Gents. In the end sailor A (me) went for a swim rather than coming into contact with B. Surfaced to watch B scowling at me as he sailed away. Good to know it may not have been my fault after all

Manuel7
260 posts
24 Jan 2019 9:03AM
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My own simplified rules:
1. do my best to avoid collisions (assume others may not know about priorities or recognize situations in the first place)
2. rider closest to the peak has priority (may not be as distinct as it sounds, see 1.)
3. rider may jibe and be on swell before other who was waiting for a piece of swell (sux for that rider)
4. rider working the wave has priority over rider mowing the lawn!
5. we may ride front or back side, apply rule 2.
6. be nice to people heading out, they should have the right of way (depends on the spot, I believe ? la Hawa?an, rider working the wave has priority)

Applying 2. in your case, A has priority unless blocking the peak for B. When I'm B and I want to hit the peak I try to make A understand that I want it especially when they just head straight down without any intention or sign that they want to work the wave.

Staying cool, understanding there will be more waves, avoiding waves with people on it. Feeling good about offering a wave to someone, etc.

Waves are fun!

DunkO
NSW, 993 posts
24 Jan 2019 12:08PM
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Where were you sailing?

A lot lot of the time a certain person rather than thier position on the wave has "priority",

put the blinkers on and go, hand them a tissue when you get back to the car park.

Give way to surfers if they're out, if it's surfable.

Relapse
VIC, 285 posts
24 Jan 2019 12:55PM
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My pet hate are the twitchers that look back and decide your wave is better than theirs, drop off the back of theirs, park then try to claim the up wind rule on the wave you've been on from our back!

stehsegler
WA, 2958 posts
24 Jan 2019 3:43PM
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Select to expand quote
Relapse said..
My pet hate are the twitchers that look back and decide your wave is better than theirs, drop off the back of theirs, park then try to claim the up wind rule on the wave you've been on from our back!


That's when you force them so far upwind they get munched by the wave... works up in Gnaraloo everytime.

Mark _australia
WA, 19096 posts
24 Jan 2019 4:19PM
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And never ever come over the back of the wave somebody is clearly riding. Ever.

Combined with the normal (no waves) scenario of overtaking vessel must keep clear, B was wrong both ways.


Relapse
VIC, 285 posts
24 Jan 2019 11:30PM
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Select to expand quote
stehsegler said..

Relapse said..
My pet hate are the twitchers that look back and decide your wave is better than theirs, drop off the back of theirs, park then try to claim the up wind rule on the wave you've been on from our back!



That's when you force them so far upwind they get munched by the wave... works up in Gnaraloo everytime

Saw a few dropins getting schooled in just such a manner at Gnarloo two years back. Locals were really friendly if you took the time to say hi and learn the road rules.

christy
WA, 2 posts
19 Feb 2019 11:27PM
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Hello, I'm new here and I'm usually doing other things but lately I'm interested in surfing and electric. I want to ask you have any opinion about them?

AUS1111
WA, 3325 posts
20 Feb 2019 8:50AM
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^^ Robots have a long way to go

Gerowaterboy
WA, 120 posts
10 Mar 2019 7:59PM
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my favourite rule is don't be a C__T, simple.

NordRoi
267 posts
11 Mar 2019 4:48AM
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Select to expand quote
Foghorn said..
Kitesurfers also seem to have their own rules most windsurfers play the game right.


Each spot got their onw rule, but un general.
The difference is in windsurfing the windsurfer going out has ROW, but Unless it's a break gear situation i alway give the priority to the windsurfer who surf the wave. In kitesurfing, the one who surf the waves has ROW.

christy
WA, 2 posts
22 Mar 2019 6:56PM
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Hello, I bought an electric surfboard. This is awakeboards.com/, I'd love to hear your views on it.

Al1
17 posts
4 Apr 2019 11:17PM
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christy said..
Hello, I bought an electric surfboard. This is awakeboards.com/, I'd love to hear your views on it.


Hello Christy, well I checked your site and the product you are shamelessly trying to sell in the middle of a discussion that has nothing to do with it, and I would say that 35kgs for a surfboard is a tad bit much nowadays. Even for a surfboard that does all the work for your lazy flabby ass. But I think that as a giant dildo , this product might have some potential for you. Why don't you try this function on you and come back here to report to us with the results of your findings ?

barbarian
NSW, 203 posts
5 Apr 2019 7:25PM
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Select to expand quote
christy said..
Hello, I bought an electric surfboard. This is awakeboards.com/, I'd love to hear your views on it.


I can't tell is this is someone trolling or someone selling. Either way you should post on Heavy Weather which is where honest reviews and opinions abound.

Gonewindsurfing247
WA, 952 posts
9 Apr 2019 12:55PM
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Check out the shared barrel at 2.09

Mastbender
1869 posts
16 May 2019 3:05AM
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Select to expand quote
stehsegler said..
Sailing right of way rules generally don't apply when we are talking breaking surf.

As a general rule:

- sailor on the way out should go wide, especially on waves were the sailor coming in might not be able to go straight
- sailor on wave coming in should give way to sailor going out, especially in bigger waves
- sailor waiting the longest, furthest out, furthest up wind gets the wave
- don't get on a wave that already has a sailor on it
- try to avoid parking for a wave, although that's sometimes unavoidable




Here in the US your second rule is exactly opposite of what we do as a rule.
The person on the wave has the right of way over anyone going out, those going out should first look to make sure they won't be impeding anyone on a wave, before they launch, it's easy to do. Safety is a huge reason why, "especially in bigger waves", many times the safest thing for someone on a big wave, is to go with the wave, and not alter their course to avoid somebody going out, and may not even have the time to do it safely for both.
Also it's very disrespectful to the guy on the wave, people going out shouldn't have the right to ruin somebody's wave.
It also conflicts with your own first rule.

Madge
NSW, 147 posts
16 May 2019 5:55AM
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Select to expand quote
Mastbender said..

stehsegler said..
Sailing right of way rules generally don't apply when we are talking breaking surf.

As a general rule:

- sailor on the way out should go wide, especially on waves were the sailor coming in might not be able to go straight
- sailor on wave coming in should give way to sailor going out, especially in bigger waves
- sailor waiting the longest, furthest out, furthest up wind gets the wave
- don't get on a wave that already has a sailor on it
- try to avoid parking for a wave, although that's sometimes unavoidable





Here in the US your second rule is exactly opposite of what we do as a rule.
The person on the wave has the right of way over anyone going out, those going out should first look to make sure they won't be impeding anyone on a wave, before they launch, it's easy to do. Safety is a huge reason why, "especially in bigger waves", many times the safest thing for someone on a big wave, is to go with the wave, and not alter their course to avoid somebody going out, and may not even have the time to do it safely for both.
Also it's very disrespectful to the guy on the wave, people going out shouldn't have the right to ruin somebody's wave.
It also conflicts with your own first rule.


So if I'm dogging out in a 5 knot rip and not planning, then I should give way to someone who has full control and is able to move out of the way quickly..........??? Surely that rule in the US only works in planning conditions.

Mastbender
1869 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 2:59AM
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Select to expand quote
Madge said..

Mastbender said..


stehsegler said..
Sailing right of way rules generally don't apply when we are talking breaking surf.

As a general rule:

- sailor on the way out should go wide, especially on waves were the sailor coming in might not be able to go straight
- sailor on wave coming in should give way to sailor going out, especially in bigger waves
- sailor waiting the longest, furthest out, furthest up wind gets the wave
- don't get on a wave that already has a sailor on it
- try to avoid parking for a wave, although that's sometimes unavoidable






Here in the US your second rule is exactly opposite of what we do as a rule.
The person on the wave has the right of way over anyone going out, those going out should first look to make sure they won't be impeding anyone on a wave, before they launch, it's easy to do. Safety is a huge reason why, "especially in bigger waves", many times the safest thing for someone on a big wave, is to go with the wave, and not alter their course to avoid somebody going out, and may not even have the time to do it safely for both.
Also it's very disrespectful to the guy on the wave, people going out shouldn't have the right to ruin somebody's wave.
It also conflicts with your own first rule.



So if I'm dogging out in a 5 knot rip and not planning, then I should give way to someone who has full control and is able to move out of the way quickly..........??? Surely that rule in the US only works in planning conditions.


That would have been a bad choice to try "dogging out" thru the surf if you see somebody going for a wave, which goes back to my point of paying attention before launching. If the wind is that light, or you rigged a sail that's too small, then you have to pay even more attention to what's going on outside. Only you have full control of when you launch.

decrepit
WA, 9110 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 9:13AM
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Some places there isn't much choice. once you pull off the back of the wave, there may not be anybody riding. So you start dogging back upwind, but make the mistake of not allowing for a bigger set coming through. Which somebody has picked up, you have to bear away to pick up speed to make it over the shoulder, or get thoroughly munched by mast high white water. In this case, I suggest, the wave rider, should give the guy going out room to make the shoulder.

So I'm not really in favour of hard and fast "rules", yes guide lines are good, but it's cases like this there needs to be a bit of flexibility.

DO AS YOU WOULD BE DONE BY.
Is a great guide

DunkO
NSW, 993 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 3:25PM
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Select to expand quote
Mastbender said..

Madge said..


Mastbender said..



stehsegler said..
Sailing right of way rules generally don't apply when we are talking breaking surf.

As a general rule:

- sailor on the way out should go wide, especially on waves were the sailor coming in might not be able to go straight
- sailor on wave coming in should give way to sailor going out, especially in bigger waves
- sailor waiting the longest, furthest out, furthest up wind gets the wave
- don't get on a wave that already has a sailor on it
- try to avoid parking for a wave, although that's sometimes unavoidable







Here in the US your second rule is exactly opposite of what we do as a rule.
The person on the wave has the right of way over anyone going out, those going out should first look to make sure they won't be impeding anyone on a wave, before they launch, it's easy to do. Safety is a huge reason why, "especially in bigger waves", many times the safest thing for someone on a big wave, is to go with the wave, and not alter their course to avoid somebody going out, and may not even have the time to do it safely for both.
Also it's very disrespectful to the guy on the wave, people going out shouldn't have the right to ruin somebody's wave.
It also conflicts with your own first rule.




So if I'm dogging out in a 5 knot rip and not planning, then I should give way to someone who has full control and is able to move out of the way quickly..........??? Surely that rule in the US only works in planning conditions.



That would have been a bad choice to try "dogging out" thru the surf if you see somebody going for a wave, which goes back to my point of paying attention before launching. If the wind is that light, or you rigged a sail that's too small, then you have to pay even more attention to what's going on outside. Only you have full control of when you launch.


Nah that 100% incorrect. For the reasons stated by others.

Most conditions we sail it's slow getting out and power on the wave. Nothing to do with sail size. Everyone is in the same position.

it may take a couple of minutes to get through the break, by which time tens of wave may have been caught. The riders of these wave always give way to the guy who can't.

obviously everyone should give as much space as practical to a wave rider. And if planning out steer clear.
unless your a kitter, cut straight in front and boost.

decrepit
WA, 9110 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 4:13PM
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yes and there's a max size sail you want to use on a wave, it's better to do out, than have too big a sail.



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"Are we sailing or surfing? Right of Way in the waves" started by BFlood