Just curious - winging seems to be getting more momentum - equipment seems to be advancing.
boards seems smaller - less sail/mast/booms - easier to transport.
I'm intermediate windfoiler - but winging seems attractive for freeriding ?
just wondering if people have ditched the rig ?
Not yet, but my quiver seems to be transitioning, especially for higher winds. I still can't come close to being as proficient in lightwind winging as I am windfoiling and I don't ever expect to be. No matter how hard I try I can't even come close to my upwind foil angles I get windfoiling, I believe this is a combination a lack of skill with the wing, and using a wing that has a giant leading edge and less than ideal handle placement.
I don't wind foil but i havent kite foiled since i started wing foiling. I havent got rid of my kite gear yet in case the novelty wears off but can't see that happening some how.
Yep ha met kite foiled since starting to wing and rarely kite anymore. Only for a good downwinder on a SB when swells up. TT is retired just about for good.
I meant to mention that I have also stopped kitefoiling long ago, I was never that good at it anyways
Winging has yet to become as easy as windfoiling for me and it doesn't seem like it will ever have that slippery efficient feeling upwind which feels so good on the windfoil.
I started winging because I travel for work to a lot of places where I have water access (when covid is done) and bringing my windfoil gear just isn't convenient at all.
It may completely replace windfoiling for me but it definitely won't replace windsurfing itself. I'd rather be wavesailing on that gear than any form of foiling.
i am winging 90% of the time now when I'm not actually windsurfing. I like the turning and swell riding aspects of winging compared to windfoiling, and we have good wind and swell/chop conditions here in San Francisco Bay. In flat water or for going exploring, I actually like that harnessed in easy glide of windsurf foiling. While I do some basic tricks on the wing and windfoiling, the whole freestyle thing w/ winging or windfoiling isn't where my head is at, even though I'm an avid freestyle windsurfer.
For me, the best is still windsurfing ripping across the bay on a 4.0 and throwing shove-its.
To each his/her own
Never made the jump to windfoiling, but I've only windsurfed 1 time in the past 18 months. Obsessed and loving WINGfoiling!!!
Select to expand quotesunsetsailboards said..
i am winging 90% of the time now when I'm not actually windsurfing. I like the turning and swell riding aspects of winging compared to windfoiling, and we have good wind and swell/chop conditions here in San Francisco Bay. In flat water or for going exploring, I actually like that harnessed in easy glide of windsurf foiling. While I do some basic tricks on the wing and windfoiling, the whole freestyle thing w/ winging or windfoiling isn't where my head is at, even though I'm an avid freestyle windsurfer.
For me, the best is still windsurfing ripping across the bay on a 4.0 and throwing shove-its.
To each his/her own
You make a good point about flat water exploring on - well for me, kitefoiling. Yeh it still is superior for that I must admit. Did some great upwind exploring at Exmouth this year. But if there are waves / swell kite foiling, well it just doesn't work. Tried and tried and ... even lent a cloud 7m kite for a year from a mate. Nope it sucks. You always outrun the swell unless you dog along.
I sold my windfoil board to get into winging.
, wing is soo much more fun to me.When to do what:
No wind and no waves: MTB
no wind but waves: SUP (tried supfoil, but it doesnt really suit our conditions)
light wind to medium wind with waves: winging
5.3/4.7 weather with small waves: winging, bigger waves wavesailing
high wind: wavesailing.
I'm happy with the speed and carving power of small foil wings (windfoil) downwind
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said..
I sold my windfoil board to get into winging. , wing is soo much more fun to me.When to do what:
No wind and no waves: MTB
no wind but waves: SUP (tried supfoil, but it doesnt really suit our conditions)
light wind to medium wind with waves: winging
5.3/4.7 weather with small waves: winging, bigger waves wavesailing
high wind: wavesailing.
Exactly the same it'll be for me.
When starting winging i still thought i'll go windfoiling in flatwater for the speed it delivers, but after 11 sessions winging i guess i'm up to the point to cancel windfoiling.
Just winging and wave sailing.
Interestingly i found the same with supfoiling, besides the needed skills, wave conditions and crowds in the line up limited my efforts to giving it up again.
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..
I'm happy with the speed and carving power of small foil wings (windfoil) downwind
Your video really looks like you have a lot of fun. And you have a high skill level in windfoiling.
I really don't want to be unpolite or a offend you, but as i see it what you are doing is carving on the swell, doing turns you could also do on flat water. This reminds me of what a lot of wave kiters do when they "ride waves", they get pulled along by their kite like on a wakeboard rope. Sometimes there's a wave under them.
It doesn't look like your using/riding the energy of the wave a lot, more the energy of the wind.
While winging you could ride these swells by using the wave energy almost exclusively by flagging the wing.
I think that's the big difference of windfoiling and winging in wavy conditions, it's much easier to RIDE the waves with a wing.
I've been riding waves backside with my windfoiling gear too, that's really fun, but usually you outrun the waves, being too fast.
Trying to ride waves frontside down the line windfoiling is tricky stuff, controlling flight height on the wave face while the sail creates permanent balance impacts via the mastfoot. I had quite some nasty nosedives.
Wingwing makes this much easier.
But as i said, to each his own. It's just about having the most fun we can get.
Fully agree with Alex.The big difference for me is that windsurf foiling felt to me like freeriding and wing foil feels like surfing and personally thatys what i,m after.
Besides, really jealous about the sailing in a shorthy in clean green water. Even a 6mm full hooded with 6mm boots and gloves is freaking cold here.Seawater is 5-6degree, lakes around freezing point, air on the warm days 5-6degree and thursday it will be freezing again.
Can,t wait till it is spring.
Select to expand quoteAlexF said..Your video really looks like you have a lot of fun. And you have a high skill level in windfoiling.
I really don't want to be unpolite or a offend you, but as i see it what you are doing is carving on the swell, doing turns you could also do on flat water. This reminds me of what a lot of wave kiters do when they "ride waves", they get pulled along by their kite like on a wakeboard rope. Sometimes there's a wave under them.
It doesn't look like your using/riding the energy of the wave a lot, more the energy of the wind.
While winging you could ride these swells by using the wave energy almost exclusively by flagging the wing.
I think that's the big difference of windfoiling and winging in wavy conditions, it's much easier to RIDE the waves with a wing.
I've been riding waves backside with my windfoiling gear too, that's really fun, but usually you outrun the waves, being too fast.
Trying to ride waves frontside down the line windfoiling is tricky stuff, controlling flight height on the wave face while the sail creates permanent balance impacts via the mastfoot. I had quite some nasty nosedives.
Wingwing makes this much easier.
But as i said, to each his own. It's just about having the most fun we can get.
Thanks - it's definitely epic fun
I'd say we use half sail and half swell power.
We started downwinding about 3 years ago flagging the sail and just riding the swells, but quickly found the speed and ability to power carve by adding sail to swell power, addictive.
S-turning/carving/angling means outrunning the swells is not an issue even at 20+ knots downwind.
It's double the buzz downwinding in big windswells compared to flat water - that's why we froth for 25 to 30 knot days on the ocean
Super stoked to see so many newbies on the ocean this year - whether windfoiling or winging 
What a good post , I've sold all my kite & kite foil gear don't miss a bit . Windfoil is the only form of foiling I haven't tried and definitely want to try it as I'm just in awe of the upwind reach and speed these things get , just looks awesome. The wingding has a long way to go to be able to do that but the sheer simplicity, small amount of gear & cost , plus way more versatility is why it's just growing it's so fast.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
What a good post , I've sold all my kite & kite foil gear don't miss a bit . Windfoil is the only form of foiling I haven't tried and definitely want to try it as I'm just in awe of the upwind reach and speed these things get , just looks awesome. The wingding has a long way to go to be able to do that but the sheer simplicity, small amount of gear & cost , plus way more versatility is why it's just growing it's so fast.
Cheers Rob - be stoked to hear what you think when you give it a go
Yes! I started windfoiling a couple of years ago but after a series of gear failures, I sold all my wind foil kit and went to the 'dark side'. Have been winging a few months now and LOVE it. Definitely not fast and furious, and I miss the racing crowd (big in Auckland) but super easy to rig, light and way easier on my aging bod. Huge versatility and wide wind range (10-25+) with one board and a few wings. I leave the wing gear permanently in my truck and have at least doubled my time on the water and it is FUN
Do you think it would be quicker for a raw beginnner to be up foiling by going the wing option rather than windsurfer rig.
I just think that you have to be reasonably competent windsurfer to go windfoiling and that competency takes times in the water - whereas it may be possible to be winging on sup than graduate to foil etc - This will still take time but may be quicker ?
If you are a beginner who wants to wingfoil and has no windsurf experience don't waste your time going through windfoiling to wingfoiling. It would be like learning to snowboard so that you can go transfer over to skiing. Windfoiling is expensive and learning can be very expensive even for some experienced windsurfers when they damage their boards with their sail masts on breaches. I came from windfoiling, so winging comes easy, but I went through long learning process with windsurfing then windfoiling, that's where I paid my dues. If you want to wing, just wing, starting with a SUP first and learning to foil behind a boat if it's an option would make way more sense too.
Conversely, if you want to get into windfoiling, don't waste time and money by going through wingfoiling.
What Windbot said, windsurfers/windfoilers have a big advantage when transferring skills to winging, but they have had to learn to windsurf first which has its own learning curve.
I've been doing a bit of wing teaching. Forget the big sups, they just head off downwind as you can't get far enough back . I use a 9 ft board with thin rails. You can use the rails to hold your ground, you can't edge bigger sups properly.
Go out in plenty of wind in the flattest water possible, you'll learn quick.
I still love wind foiling but I'm WWF style. When winging I hold a handle at my hip on a wave, while wind-foiling I just grab the mast and hold off to the side. Kind of the same except when I eat it. Wind foil seems to be a more aggressive fall.
My personal notes:
1) Wind foil is unparalleled in going upwind.
Really important come summer time for my afternoon down winders. Don't need a drop off upwind.
2) I can definitely carve harder wind foiling as I can counter balance against the sail. Though eventually I can see that happening w the wing.
3) Winging wins for feeling of freedom and rigging and derigging.
4) Winging mechanics are just so different, it's just too much fun.
Sometimes I get stressed out trying to figure out whether I'm SB surfing, wave-sailing, SUP'n, LB surfing, winging or wind foiling. ??
Of course doing 3 of the sports in one day is the coveted hat trick. ;)
Embrace the Kai Lenny inside of you.
Warmest Regards.
