Forums > Wing Foiling General

Armstrong foil choice

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Created by Gannet 1 month ago, 12 Dec 2020
Gannet
VIC, 23 posts
12 Dec 2020 11:47AM
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Just wondering who is on Armstrong and what is your setup? So you go down wing size for 25knots plus?
85cm mast?

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
12 Dec 2020 10:34AM
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Gannet said..
Just wondering who is on Armstrong and what is your setup? So you go down wing size for 25knots plus?
85cm mast?




1250 60 232 850 +1 shim or 0 shim depending on your preference, you get both. I do not downsize for 25 knots plus.

If you are light consider the 1050

Gannet
VIC, 23 posts
12 Dec 2020 3:30PM
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Thanks Hilly. Currently riding Axis 900 but about to switch to Armstrong so working out what kit. 82kg prone and wing. Yesterday 25 knots and 3-4 m ground swell DW. 900 was a handful at full clip. FER like board (Fanatic 5'4 95l) and everything needed to be much smaller.

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
12 Dec 2020 1:28PM
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Gannet said..
Thanks Hilly. Currently riding Axis 900 but about to switch to Armstrong so working out what kit. 82kg prone and wing. Yesterday 25 knots and 3-4 m ground swell DW. 900 was a handful at full clip. FER like board (Fanatic 5'4 95l) and everything needed to be much smaller.

a few guys here have changed to 1250 from the 900 and love it. Was out with a guy your size in 25 knots and a bit of swell the other day and he had no dramas.

the Fanatic boards mast track will be too far back. Flip the chip and get the mast as far forward as possible. The Armstrong will feel a lot different to the axis so have a few sessions to get acclimatised. It will be a lot more reactive than the Axis 900.

Can555
63 posts
13 Dec 2020 4:59AM
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Gannet said..
Thanks Hilly. Currently riding Axis 900 but about to switch to Armstrong so working out what kit. 82kg prone and wing. Yesterday 25 knots and 3-4 m ground swell DW. 900 was a handful at full clip. FER like board (Fanatic 5'4 95l) and everything needed to be much smaller.



I'm still waiting for the HS 1250 and 85 mast myself, but use the HS 1850 and 72 mast in 14knots up at this point at 90 kgs. Surprisingly versatile and great range. Pretty fast too, especially with the +1 shim, but I think the 1250 will eventually be my bread and butter set up. Just curious, why the switch from Axis?

KB7
NSW, 61 posts
13 Dec 2020 9:55AM
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I've had the Armstrong Foil system for a year and half now for kite and wing foiling, and I'm still refining when to use which combination. Wind speed is only one factor, you then have to think about direction, wave size, speed of the waves, board reserve volume etc etc.

I'm 89Kg and use a 95lt board with the 85cm mast. I have the 1850, 1550, 1200, 1050 and 800 and have just ordered the 1250. End ever session with the front foil removed so I have to think about what to use the next time. Not having to mess about with teff gell switching over is a huge advantage over the alloy foils. A bigger deal than it might seem. (I had Axis before)

Here is my rough guide for Wing surfing only.

1850 - Wind 12 -25 Knots flat water or waves up to shoulder high and doing a downwinders in wind swell. Super easy foil to learn on which comes up without effort but much bigger radius turns on waves and feels big when waves steepen up.
1550 - Wind 15 - 25 Knots - my go to foil- Really nice foil to ride in waves rolls rail to rail super smooth up to head and a half high. Still has a good low end down to 12 knots if you are on foil. Glides okay but not what it was made for.
1200- Wind 20 - 30 Knots - Once powered on a 4m with waves overhead or faster moving I switch to the 1200, rides similar to the 1550 just tighter turns and so nice to ride the waves on. If the wind drops below 15 I'm slogging home
1050 Wind 25 - 35 Knots - Powered on a 3.3 with no lulls this feels so fast but the board feels way to big. Need to try negative volume board in these conditions - or just go kitesurfing instead.

1250 - Will have to see, I'm sure I can go from the 1850 to the 1250 but I'm not convinced it will wave ride as well as the 1550 or 1200 but I'm hoping for more glide and speed in bigger swell.

In truth you can ride all these foils in 25 knots especially if you ride a smaller wing to compensate. Each has its pros and cons but endless fun trying different combinations.

Cheers KB7

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
13 Dec 2020 10:23AM
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I have gone the other way. I only use the 1250 now for Foil SUP and wingding. 105kg so I can hold it down in bigger waves and turn it. Does not turn as well as the 1200 but has amazing glide. I use a 6M wing if it is light - like 12 to 15 knots. 1850 feels monstrous now. No need for my 1550 apart from having a change when SUP foiling.

KB7
NSW, 61 posts
14 Dec 2020 5:13PM
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Hilly ..I think that's because you live in WA and have consistent strong wind and wave direction.lucky for some.

I once spend an early season month a Gnaraloo, the WA crew sat and watched me kite on a 12m for 7 days in light southerly with perfect 4- 5ft lefts. They all kept insisting there was no need for any kite bigger than a 7m in WA.

Here on the East coast you need one of everything to work with whatever swell and wind direction comes your way.

I'm hoping the 1250 is the one though.

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
14 Dec 2020 2:39PM
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Always took the 12 to Gloo so I could beat the crowd out
Hope the 1250 is the one

Alysum
NSW, 687 posts
15 Dec 2020 11:27PM
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Gannet said..
Thanks Hilly. Currently riding Axis 900 but about to switch to Armstrong so working out what kit. 82kg prone and wing. Yesterday 25 knots and 3-4 m ground swell DW. 900 was a handful at full clip. FER like board (Fanatic 5'4 95l) and everything needed to be much smaller.



Since you're already on axis should seriously try the new axis black series high aspect 980. Insane glide and speed. Nothing similar in the Armstrong line up if speed is your goal

PS: hilly we're even now

eppo
WA, 7670 posts
15 Dec 2020 10:33PM
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25 knots 3-4m swell. I'd assume that is not your regular type conditions but one of those epic days ? Just saying you shouldn't be moving to a setup to initially cover that surely? Maybe it is normal ?
Hillys recommendations are sound. Start with the 1250 and then if need be build a quiver if need be around that.

I had my first crack on exactly the same setup the other day, 20-25 knots on a 5m unit wing (which has a powerful bottom end but large blow back near its top) and at 80kg I was well cooked wing wing size. The far more experienced guys including Jason (who came second in the recent King of the cut race) from WA surf were on 4m's. So not the ideal conditions for a first crack and even Jason was expecting some adjustment period on the Armstrong for the first run


But this was not the case. Straight up and all good all the way down.

To be honest it felt similar to the axis 900 (ultra short fuse setup) so the only adjustment was the much smaller 232 back wing. But that didn't take long and after a short time I was dialed in. As I said it felt very similar to the 900 just way more glide, far easier to pump without wing power to get to and ride the next swell line. Far more balanced, far smoother, coukd turn much harder without tip breach . well just superior in every sense to be frank. I didn't breach once in the entire session.


Also I opened up the tap a few times and the speed was ... scary at first but you quickly adjust due to the balance and predictability of the wing. Did bite off more than I could chew once and the crash made my ears ring a bit.


but it could also be ridden slow if one chose (which I mainly did as I was well over powered and there was swell running to), and had a remarkabley slow stall speed .. although that could be the extra glide in action.


now having said all that I have heard good things about the axis 980 etc to so maybe worth trying first who knows.


but if you go Armstrong hillys suggestion is bang on from what I just experienced. Very happy indeed

hope that helps.

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
16 Dec 2020 5:51AM
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Alysum said..PS: hilly we're even now


I do not mind people contributing "have you considered" positively to any post. It is a public forum and designed to generate discussion. It would be sad if we all did the same thing. Armstrong are actually faster than Axis when speed actually tested. A guy did a great review Axis/Armstrong/MFC and the 1550 was faster than the 900 but did not "feel" faster due to how easy to ride the Armstrong was. Having owned both Axis and Armstrong I know how superior Armstrong are and are worth every cent.

Alysum
NSW, 687 posts
16 Dec 2020 9:37AM
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hilly said..


Alysum said..PS: hilly we're even now




I do not mind people contributing "have you considered" positively to any post. It is a public forum and designed to generate discussion. It would be sad if we all did the same thing. Armstrong are actually faster than Axis when speed actually tested. A guy did a great review Axis/Armstrong/MFC and the 1550 was faster than the 900 but did not "feel" faster due to how easy to ride the Armstrong was. Having owned both Axis and Armstrong I know how superior Armstrong are and are worth every cent.



I am familiar with that test, that was more than a year ago and foils have evolved a ****loads since.

I try to encourage people to demo as much as possible as I know for a fact that a lot of people here have bought Armstrong without even trying it. I'm sure it's a great foil which is obviously popular, aren't we lucky with too much choice

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
16 Dec 2020 10:26AM
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Alysum said..foils have evolved a ****loads since.


Try the 1250 it is sic


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Alysum said..I try to encourage people to demo as much as possible


Totally agree with that

eppo
WA, 7670 posts
16 Dec 2020 12:39PM
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Alysum said..


hilly said..




Alysum said..PS: hilly we're even now






I do not mind people contributing "have you considered" positively to any post. It is a public forum and designed to generate discussion. It would be sad if we all did the same thing. Armstrong are actually faster than Axis when speed actually tested. A guy did a great review Axis/Armstrong/MFC and the 1550 was faster than the 900 but did not "feel" faster due to how easy to ride the Armstrong was. Having owned both Axis and Armstrong I know how superior Armstrong are and are worth every cent.





I am familiar with that test, that was more than a year ago and foils have evolved a ****loads since.

I try to encourage people to demo as much as possible as I know for a fact that a lot of people here have bought Armstrong without even trying it. I'm sure it's a great foil which is obviously popular, aren't we lucky with too much choice



Yeh the 1250 feels like a massive evolution that's for sure. Speed isn't everything though. It's how controllable it is to average hacks which most of us (me including) are.

From my really uneducated point of view, what I can see and felt in the wing like the 1250, is a really clever balance of all the counter variables in play.

Gannet
VIC, 23 posts
16 Dec 2020 4:38PM
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Not much opportunity to demo due to remoteness. 20-25k cross is pretty common.
Other foils in the mix are:Takuma KujiraSignature Game ChangerUniFoil HyperSuffering a little analysis paralysis. I do have some long approach walks and rides for prone so weight on my back as well as water is an important factor.

eppo
WA, 7670 posts
16 Dec 2020 3:25PM
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.... the wind is irrelevant. Just use the right sized sail.
Do you always get 3-4m swell ?

Gannet
VIC, 23 posts
16 Dec 2020 7:06PM
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Not always. This conversation has evolved a lot. I really appreciate everyones input because we all ride different conditions. This issue is that all the good riders/shops are aligned with a brand(s). There are so few independent reviews from experienced riders so it's a lot of noise the sift through.

baldy123
WA, 121 posts
16 Dec 2020 9:17PM
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Gannet,

I started on slingshot, then GF IWA, M200, M280.
Then spent a lot of time on axis and have now switched to Armstrong.
I think the HS1250 ticks a lot of boxes for winging and SUP wave paddling for me.
I'm using it on the 85cm mast, 60fuse and 212 tail. it has so much control. Is totally silent through the water and turns so smooth. I used to ride wider 1000 wings of similar area but there is no comparison riding waves. So much better. If you want a pump and glide wing then there are probably better wings out there by other brands. However I just love the whole setup you get from Armstrong, stainless everything, titanium washers and nuts. A bag for every part, and decent heavy duty covers. Leave it together and don't bother washing is a big plus. I only take the front wing off after sessions as I switch between 1250 and 1850. These two wings are all you need to cover most conditions.







eppo
WA, 7670 posts
16 Dec 2020 9:47PM
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Well I can say I'm not a good rider (yet), only winged for 6 -7 weeks. I'm also not brand affiliated and agree with the above post. That being said I haven't ridden any others but axis - which I still highly rate. Also as I have said I haven't tried the new 980 etc.

So all I can say and will say now is hillys advice is spot on. You can't go wrong.

Can555
63 posts
17 Dec 2020 12:00AM
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New HS850 just released...

Pat WA 1965
WA, 7 posts
18 Dec 2020 8:43AM
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I only take the front wing off after sessions as I switch between 1250 and 1850. These two wings are all you need to cover most conditions.



Hey Pete, can you give me your thoughts on when you would use the 1250 over the 1850 when downwinding with the wing. I have just started going from D6 down to Scarbs (4 runs so far) with the 1850 and a 5m wasp (my only wing) but no personal experience yet with the 1250.
Cheers Pat

baldy123
WA, 121 posts
18 Dec 2020 8:15PM
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Hey Pat,

The 1850 is good for light days say 12-18knots. It is more of a mellow ride. Work the bumps and glide with ease. Anything over 20knots and I'm on the 1250 DW. It's just faster, looser and less effort to ride. Just need to keep the speed up on the 1250 and it goes real good. You are welcome to borrow my 1250 for a DW run if you don't have one yet. I saw you packing up last Wednesday evening down at Brighton. I won't be on the water Saturday but should be Sunday arvo late on.

Pat WA 1965
WA, 7 posts
18 Dec 2020 9:53PM
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Thanks for the advice Pete, see you on the water

foilthegreats
42 posts
13 Jan 2021 9:49AM
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Anybody use the HS850? How is it?

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
13 Jan 2021 9:15PM
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foilthegreats said..
Anybody use the HS850? How is it?


Super fast and a challenge for me. Watch the locals only vid the guy on fanatic board and unit is riding one. He loves it.

foilthegreats
42 posts
13 Jan 2021 10:47PM
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hilly said..

foilthegreats said..
Anybody use the HS850? How is it?



Super fast and a challenge for me. Watch the locals only vid the guy on fanatic board and unit is riding one. He loves it.


Great video! He looks super smooth on it! Do you happen to know what his setup is, mast,fuse,shim etc? What configuration did you try?

hilly
WA, 5832 posts
14 Jan 2021 12:23AM
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foilthegreats said..

hilly said..


foilthegreats said..
Anybody use the HS850? How is it?




Super fast and a challenge for me. Watch the locals only vid the guy on fanatic board and unit is riding one. He loves it.



Great video! He looks super smooth on it! Do you happen to know what his setup is, mast,fuse,shim etc? What configuration did you try?


850 60 0 232
He drilled holes in his mast base to get the mast further forward.

MidAtlanticFoil
130 posts
14 Jan 2021 5:13AM
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I've had a few goes on the 850 winging. Whatever you do, don't use the -1 shim/212 tail and get frustrated about not getting up and throw a 300 tail with -2 shim on the rig. That equals 'dolphin mode'.

foilthegreats
42 posts
15 Jan 2021 4:05AM
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MidAtlanticFoil said..
I've had a few goes on the 850 winging. Whatever you do, don't use the -1 shim/212 tail and get frustrated about not getting up and throw a 300 tail with -2 shim on the rig. That equals 'dolphin mode'.


Received the 850 today. Unfortunately I only have the 212 and 50 fuse. I do have KD 13" coming. Will give it a go with big 6.4 hopefully she goes.

MidAtlanticFoil
130 posts
15 Jan 2021 5:24AM
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foilthegreats said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..
I've had a few goes on the 850 winging. Whatever you do, don't use the -1 shim/212 tail and get frustrated about not getting up and throw a 300 tail with -2 shim on the rig. That equals 'dolphin mode'.



Received the 850 today. Unfortunately I only have the 212 and 50 fuse. I do have KD 13" coming. Will give it a go with big 6.4 hopefully she goes.


The 13" KD tail will be perfect. (had my first session prone on it with the 1250 the other day and it went nuts). I think the last time I tried winging the 850 I hadn't flipped around my t-nuts to allow that extra forward mast position on my tracks (which I usually do). I think that with the 0 Shim will be good with either tail.



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"Armstrong foil choice" started by Gannet