Forums > Wing Foiling General

Foil/Board mismatching combo,s.

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Created by Jeroensurf > 9 months ago, 28 Feb 2021
Jeroensurf
866 posts
28 Feb 2021 6:10PM
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As the sport evolves and there become more and more gear available the change that there is certain gear that will not work properly together is growing. That is what this topic is about.

Reason:
I have a Fanatic Skywing2021 5.8.
I use it with a 1st gen Go-foil Maliko M200+IWA but was looking for faster foils with more glide.
Asked Go foil and they can,t guarantee me that the newer wings like the GL and NL will fit my older mast without a ot of sending (what will make it useless for my older wings).
Because of that I,m trying some stuff I can get my hands on.
last week I tried the Starboard E-type 1700 from a shop.
First off all, good looking and stiff construction, silent, fast and extremely turny, but what really surprised me that in the most forward position in the box it simply didn't matched with the board.
With that I mean that I need to stand with my back foot on the kickpad and the front way behind the footstrap plugs to keep it level. Standing on my normal positions. The shop owner tried that too and had the same issue
We tried the Starboard under the Naish 110 from the shop owner and that works fine.
Our conclusion: you can,t mix and match all board and foil brands and the Starboard E type and Fanatic boards are definitely a mismatch.

The Starboard foil worked with the Naish but made it too nervous for the both of us compared to the Naish HA1400

Are there other well known Mismatches?Help each-other out and post em here.

btw: because I liked the Naish Hoover 110 soo much and how well it worked together with the Naish foil i,m serious considering selling the Fanatic and replace it with the Hoover110 with the HA1400+1800 (for my 97kg) just to prevent future mismatches.

Grantmac
1953 posts
1 Mar 2021 1:17AM
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Which tail length and stabilizer size was on the Starboard? There are a lot of variables within that foil system.

tangogeoff
66 posts
1 Mar 2021 1:47AM
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Yep! My Naish inflatable 135 litre 5'7" appears to have been designed for use with a Naish foil setup. From manufacturers website photos the Naish foil mount is very close to the mast whereas the Axis foil (red fuselage) mounts several inches forward of the mast.The mast track in the inflatable is mounted so far forward that, with the mast at the back of the track, I was unable to get under way without the Axis foil trying to smack me in the face. There's a reference to this problem in the Supboarder YouTube review and they mentioned that larger foils would require standing very far forward but even standing up near the front and moving to a smaller foil had very little effect.

The fix was to drill out the threaded mounting holes on the mast base and gain another inch or so of adjustment. After that it was just down to shimming.

LeeD
3939 posts
1 Mar 2021 1:49AM
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Front wing needs to be nearly centered between your 2 feet.
Either extending track or different length fuze can do it.

Jeroensurf
866 posts
1 Mar 2021 2:05AM
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Select to expand quote
Grantmac said..
Which tail length and stabilizer size was on the Starboard? There are a lot of variables within that foil system.


The 36, so completely standard.starboardfoils.com/pages/2021-E-TYPEWhole problem is that it needs a more forward box position and Fanatic is rather further to the back.

LeeD
3939 posts
1 Mar 2021 4:28AM
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Can you put Honda parts on a VW?

LeeD
3939 posts
1 Mar 2021 4:30AM
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Of course, after you do the research, modify surrounding parts, and McGiver it back together.

Grantmac
1953 posts
1 Mar 2021 1:15PM
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Jeroensurf said..

Grantmac said..
Which tail length and stabilizer size was on the Starboard? There are a lot of variables within that foil system.



The 36, so completely standard.starboardfoils.com/pages/2021-E-TYPEWhole problem is that it needs a more forward box position and Fanatic is rather further to the back.


The tail that comes with the E-type is definitely quite small and would be nervous. Did you try adjusting it?

I don't worry too much about brand loyalty, I go for what's going to work. Probably why I've got GM and Mitsubishi parts in my Subaru.

bigtone667
NSW, 1502 posts
1 Mar 2021 8:29PM
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Jeroensurf said..
With that I mean that I need to stand with my back foot on the kickpad and the front way behind the footstrap plugs to keep it level. Standing on my normal positions. The shop owner tried that too and had the same issue.


I had the same issue on the fanatic 95 and 110 using any of the AXIS foils. No issues on the equivalent Naish boards with the AXIS foils....

I initially started with V1 Naish's (12 months), went to Fanatics (3 months), went back to Naish for a final try and decided I preferred the Fanatics even with the unusual foot positions (I just found the smaller sizes and balance on the water better).

PeterP
816 posts
1 Mar 2021 9:09PM
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Fanatic foils have their frontwings set quite far forward of the mast which means their boxes have to sit further back in the board. This makes neither foil nor boards particularly compatible with other brands. Early Go-foils were the same.

Most brands seem to align trailing edge of frontwing with the front of mast and these will mostly be compatible.

Alternatively you can make more holes in your base plate to gain a couple of cm's.

Jeroensurf
866 posts
1 Mar 2021 10:38PM
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Thanx Peter, I didn't realize that.
Maybe this is for some common knowledge but I didn't read or heard about this before so to answer the question of Lee-D, I was presuming that when VW had the same fitting it would work :)

@Bigtone, what foil do you use with the Fanatics?

Jeroensurf
866 posts
1 Mar 2021 10:39PM
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Thanx Peter, I didn't realize that.
Maybe this is for some common knowledge but I didn't read or heard about this before so to answer the question of Lee-D, I was presuming that when VW had the same fitting it would work :)

@Bigtone, what foil do you use with the Fanatics?

LeeD
3939 posts
2 Mar 2021 12:39AM
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What year?
Fanatic is changing double track location this year.

Jeroensurf
866 posts
2 Mar 2021 1:24AM
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5.8 I have the 2021. Bought in oct.




LeeD
3939 posts
2 Mar 2021 1:33AM
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So mount your foil and check if your feet are located equidistant fron the front foil COE.

bigtone667
NSW, 1502 posts
2 Mar 2021 6:54AM
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Select to expand quote
Jeroensurf said..
Thanx Peter, I didn't realize that.
Maybe this is for some common knowledge but I didn't read or heard about this before so to answer the question of Lee-D, I was presuming that when VW had the same fitting it would work :)

@Bigtone, what foil do you use with the Fanatics?



1300, 1020, 1150

All Fanatic really needed to do was to make their tracks four inches longer and move the handle forward.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
2 Mar 2021 8:48AM
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Yep

yeahnso
WA, 6 posts
28 Apr 2021 5:57AM
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Great thread! Here's my two cents:

Slingshot Windfoil-Boards do not work with Naish Foils. Horue Tiny Pro 105 does.

Fanatic wing boards work with Naish and Slingshot foils.

My beloved Kalama e2 90l Wing/SUP works best for me with Naish HA 1800 + Jet 320 (shimmed +0,5mm), the standard Jet 1650 + Jet 450 does work too.
At the moment I'm trying the starboard e-type 1700 with the razr 250 and made the same experiences: too much pressure on the back foot, very twitchy, insecure feeling in jibes.
I'll experiment with mast position (more to the front) and a more positive rear wing angle. BTW: did anyone pair the e-type 1700 with the rear wing wave 270 or 320? Starboard said that the 270 will increase the yaw-stability.

JonathanC
VIC, 1020 posts
28 Apr 2021 12:03PM
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I've got the Starboard E1300 and at first found it very twitchy with the 36 fuselage and 250 stab, adjusted the stab angle a little and got used to it in no time. Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. Tried that by accident after losing the 36 fuse and 250 stab - chatting while rigging and forgot to tighten up! About 500m from shore it fell off and was lost. Totally bizarre thing was that after some crazy bucking bronco I could actually get up on front foil only and fly. Admittedly very up and down but stayed up for at least 500m on my 5'8 Wingboard and a powered 3.5 wing! I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.

Windoc
376 posts
28 Apr 2021 12:31PM
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My Sunova Aviator with Armstrong 1850 and 1250 max slammed forward has me standing with rear foot just in front of the kick. Not a problem really, but I'd prefer a more forward stance to make better use of footstrap options and reduce swing weight. The tracks could be 4cm further forward easily.

NordRoi
621 posts
28 Apr 2021 12:49PM
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JonathanC said..
I've got the Starboard E1300 and at first found it very twitchy with the 36 fuselage and 250 stab, adjusted the stab angle a little and got used to it in no time. Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. Tried that by accident after losing the 36 fuse and 250 stab - chatting while rigging and forgot to tighten up! About 500m from shore it fell off and was lost. Totally bizarre thing was that after some crazy bucking bronco I could actually get up on front foil only and fly. Admittedly very up and down but stayed up for at least 500m on my 5'8 Wingboard and a powered 3.5 wing! I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.


Sorrty to sidetrack but did you tried or heard any missmatch with your wingboard 5'8? How do you like it?

yeahnso
WA, 6 posts
28 Apr 2021 1:40PM
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JonathanC said..
Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. ......... I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.


Hi Jonathan,
that's good news. When would you say is it time to step down to the e-type 1300 for a 80kg guy like me? And how does the 270 stab feels compared to the 250? Why do you prefer it?
Best wind wishes from the Baltic Sea!

JonathanC
VIC, 1020 posts
28 Apr 2021 5:22PM
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NordRoi said..

JonathanC said..
I've got the Starboard E1300 and at first found it very twitchy with the 36 fuselage and 250 stab, adjusted the stab angle a little and got used to it in no time. Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. Tried that by accident after losing the 36 fuse and 250 stab - chatting while rigging and forgot to tighten up! About 500m from shore it fell off and was lost. Totally bizarre thing was that after some crazy bucking bronco I could actually get up on front foil only and fly. Admittedly very up and down but stayed up for at least 500m on my 5'8 Wingboard and a powered 3.5 wing! I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.



Sorrty to sidetrack but did you tried or heard any missmatch with your wingboard 5'8? How do you like it?


Feel like a perfect match to the Starboard Wingboard 5'8 x 25. Mast is just slightly rear of centre in the track and it's perfectly balanced. I use the board with S Type 2000, Wave 1300 and of course E1300. I love the board !! I'm 65kg so it's actually super floaty for me, I can stand and uphaul but pretty much always knee start. Find it's very forgiving of touch downs and the little bit of length seems to let me get up in very light wind.

JonathanC
VIC, 1020 posts
28 Apr 2021 5:37PM
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yeahnso said..

JonathanC said..
Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. ......... I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.



Hi Jonathan,
that's good news. When would you say is it time to step down to the e-type 1300 for a 80kg guy like me? And how does the 270 stab feels compared to the 250? Why do you prefer it?
Best wind wishes from the Baltic Sea!


Hi Yeahnso,

The 270 Stab seemed to take away some of the twitchiness that I noticed when I first started using the E1300. Saying that - that initial twitchiness I partially put down to this wing being the first high aspect wing I had ever used and after half a dozen sessions I honestly didn't notice it anymore. The 270 did seem a little slower than the much flatter 250 but really seemed to cushion the slightly twitchy feel. The E wing seems to be more critical in terms of stabilizer angle than the lower aspect wing and it's well worth subtly changing that to find the balance that suits your style. I've heard really good things about the X Type 1100 from both Zane and Michael Booth for winging. Kinda wish I'd been brave enough to get that instead of the E1300! The E wing lets me point so much higher than my other wings it's crazy.
Hard to say how it would go with 80kg compared to my 65 but 1300 actually feels big for me now so I'm sure it would work fine for you. Hope that helps!

NordRoi
621 posts
28 Apr 2021 9:51PM
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JonathanC said..


Feel like a perfect match to the Starboard Wingboard 5'8 x 25. Mast is just slightly rear of centre in the track and it's perfectly balanced. I use the board with S Type 2000, Wave 1300 and of course E1300. I love the board !! I'm 65kg so it's actually super floaty for me, I can stand and uphaul but pretty much always knee start. Find it's very forgiving of touch downs and the little bit of length seems to let me get up in very light wind.


Thanks for the feedback. Do you have the blue or the lite? I wondering how the 8kg lite tech behave, is the extra 2kg from most brand make it feel heavy in light wind?

sunsetsailboards
439 posts
29 Apr 2021 1:24AM
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Yes, seems like the Fanatic Sky Wing boards have the tracks placed further back than normal, and 2020 Naish and possibly F-One boards have the tracks placed further forward than normal? I see that S26 Naish boards have adjusted this and moved the tracks back slightly.

I currently run my Sky Wings with:
-Fanatic HA 1750 or 1500 forward
-Moses 790 middle
-Moses 950 about middle
-Moses 1000 all the way forward (with Project Cedrus mast which shifts fuselage forward 1.5cm)

I'm not using footstraps and with the first three setups, my front foot is slightly ahead of the footstrap positions. For the 1000, I'm dead on the footstrap positions. Fanatic recommends mounting their foils on their boards toward the back of the box, but somehow I like it at the front.

Also have used the Sky Wing with Slingshot i99 and i76. The i99 with short fuselage was running pretty close to middle. i76 with long fuselage mounted in B position was running as far back as possible.

JonathanC
VIC, 1020 posts
2 May 2021 8:47PM
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Select to expand quote
JonathanC said..
I've got the Starboard E1300 and at first found it very twitchy with the 36 fuselage and 250 stab, adjusted the stab angle a little and got used to it in no time. Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. Tried that by accident after losing the 36 fuse and 250 stab - chatting while rigging and forgot to tighten up! About 500m from shore it fell off and was lost. Totally bizarre thing was that after some crazy bucking bronco I could actually get up on front foil only and fly. Admittedly very up and down but stayed up for at least 500m on my 5'8 Wingboard and a powered 3.5 wing! I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.




Apologies for the off topic follow up but just wanted to report that astonishingly I've got my fuselage and stabilizer back! A scuba diver found it and happened to show it to a buddy of mine on the beach who recognised it! Mind blown Its actually got tiny marine growth going on after a week or two in Davy Jones Locker.

Jeroensurf
866 posts
2 May 2021 7:54PM
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hahaha cool!Love updates like that

Grantmac
1953 posts
3 May 2021 12:22AM
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Select to expand quote
JonathanC said..

yeahnso said..


JonathanC said..
Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. ......... I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.




Hi Jonathan,
that's good news. When would you say is it time to step down to the e-type 1300 for a 80kg guy like me? And how does the 270 stab feels compared to the 250? Why do you prefer it?
Best wind wishes from the Baltic Sea!



Hi Yeahnso,

The 270 Stab seemed to take away some of the twitchiness that I noticed when I first started using the E1300. Saying that - that initial twitchiness I partially put down to this wing being the first high aspect wing I had ever used and after half a dozen sessions I honestly didn't notice it anymore. The 270 did seem a little slower than the much flatter 250 but really seemed to cushion the slightly twitchy feel. The E wing seems to be more critical in terms of stabilizer angle than the lower aspect wing and it's well worth subtly changing that to find the balance that suits your style. I've heard really good things about the X Type 1100 from both Zane and Michael Booth for winging. Kinda wish I'd been brave enough to get that instead of the E1300! The E wing lets me point so much higher than my other wings it's crazy.
Hard to say how it would go with 80kg compared to my 65 but 1300 actually feels big for me now so I'm sure it would work fine for you. Hope that helps!


Can you compare the E1300 to Surf 1300? Too bad you are in Aus and I'm in Canada because I'm looking for the E1300 set and it sounds like you're thinking about the X1100.

JonathanC
VIC, 1020 posts
3 May 2021 8:45AM
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Select to expand quote
Grantmac said..

JonathanC said..


yeahnso said..



JonathanC said..
Have tried it with a 31 fuse and the moustache 270 and it actually worked surprisingly well. ......... I had the short fuse and 270 in the car so that's what I used and it was great.





Hi Jonathan,
that's good news. When would you say is it time to step down to the e-type 1300 for a 80kg guy like me? And how does the 270 stab feels compared to the 250? Why do you prefer it?
Best wind wishes from the Baltic Sea!




Hi Yeahnso,

The 270 Stab seemed to take away some of the twitchiness that I noticed when I first started using the E1300. Saying that - that initial twitchiness I partially put down to this wing being the first high aspect wing I had ever used and after half a dozen sessions I honestly didn't notice it anymore. The 270 did seem a little slower than the much flatter 250 but really seemed to cushion the slightly twitchy feel. The E wing seems to be more critical in terms of stabilizer angle than the lower aspect wing and it's well worth subtly changing that to find the balance that suits your style. I've heard really good things about the X Type 1100 from both Zane and Michael Booth for winging. Kinda wish I'd been brave enough to get that instead of the E1300! The E wing lets me point so much higher than my other wings it's crazy.
Hard to say how it would go with 80kg compared to my 65 but 1300 actually feels big for me now so I'm sure it would work fine for you. Hope that helps!



Can you compare the E1300 to Surf 1300? Too bad you are in Aus and I'm in Canada because I'm looking for the E1300 set and it sounds like you're thinking about the X1100.


Hmm totally different beast. To be honest I was surprised at the speeds I'm achieving on the Surf 1300 - only a fraction slower than the E1300. The other thing that surprised me is that the Wave is not as stable as I expected. It's early days and I actually bought it more for waves than winging. Think I'm guilty of chopping and changing my front wings too often and not really getting to understand the subtlety and how to set up and get the most out of what I'm riding. I've also got the 1500 Wave Classic and that's the wing I've used the most by far and in the end I really got that dialed - just keen to move to something smaller and faster and higher aspect. wouldn't really want to compare E1300 and Wave 1300 because I haven't spent enough time winging the Wave



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"Foil/Board mismatching combo,s." started by Jeroensurf