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New GONG HA Stabs with Carbon tail fuselage, greatly reducing weight and drag

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Created by FoilColorado 2 months ago, 30 Apr 2022
Dspace
138 posts
30 Apr 2022 11:11PM
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Cool! Just pre-ordered a pro-alu fuselage and a medium (42cm) Fluid-H stabilizer (due out end of June). Since I've been using a custom "Jim Stringfellow" fuselage to adapt my gong foils to Moses/SAB surf masts for the last 1 1/2 years (before Gong even offered a decent mid length mast), I decided it was time to get my first Gong carbon mast as well. My current favorite front foil is a Gong Veloce LT (90cm/1340 sq cm), but I'm excited to try out the new Fluid-H front wings due out soon.

I also own an Axis 830hps/380 setup and tested an Art 999. Super nice gear, but I like my "uncool beginner brand" Gong rig just a bit better, and it gets pricey buying/selling $650-900 front wings trying figure out what size/model works best, or the second something becomes obsolete .. (More $ in the piggy bank for when they come out with some new upgraded Slicks )



Grantmac
1426 posts
1 May 2022 4:34AM
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I just bought a Veloce XL to put on a custom Starboard fuselage I built. These new tails look like they'd be worth trying at some point although I wish they were adjustable, that's something I really like about the Starboard setup.
Perhaps I'll try their full carbon mast arrangement now that they have these tails.

Dspace
138 posts
1 May 2022 7:56AM
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Grantmac said..
I just bought a Veloce XL to put on a custom Starboard fuselage I built. These new tails look like they'd be worth trying at some point although I wish they were adjustable, that's something I really like about the Starboard setup.
Perhaps I'll try their full carbon mast arrangement now that they have these tails.


I still have my Veloce XL from when they first came out. Great wing! Yeah, I was never a fan of the endless list of options and adjustability settings that you get with something like Axis, but I certainly understand why some people prefer that approach. FWIW, if you went out tomorrow and bought a Mikes Lab foil for winging you'd get the front wing with a combined one piece fuselage and rear wing that are optimized by the designer to work with the front wing. No real choice on rear wing size/shape or fuselage length. Some amazing riders on those foils...I guess most people like to tinker with stuff..

colas
4566 posts
1 May 2022 1:00PM
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On adjustability, note that they just announced extensions to the fuz for the front wing and stab, primilary to be able to use the foil for windsurfing (moving the frontwing forward and extending the fuz length), but it can also be used to move the stab backwards for people wing/sup/surf foiling wanting more stability.

Basically Gong provides adaptability by providing lots of different parts, cheap enough to build a quiver. Their first foils angle of attack were adjustable by shims, but I guess it was found out that it was a tinkering not relevant to the market for Gong products (seeking cost reduction via economies of scale) .

Piros
QLD, 6417 posts
1 May 2022 8:33PM
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Thats a good looking rear wing

Dspace
138 posts
8 May 2022 2:15PM
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The new Gong HA wings are officially for sale online, although first deliveries won't be till the end of July. I ordered a Fluid HL (102 cm, 1250 sq cm) to go with a Fluid H 42cm stabilizer. The Fluid H models definitely have a unique shape for a front ha wing. Looks like the wing actually sweeps up slightly from tip to tip (not sure of the aeronautical term??). Malo just competed at the recent GWA freestyle event using 82cm Fluid H

No idea how it will perform compared to the only other ha foil I've ridden (ART 999, which I liked) but I've always been happy with every foil I've purchased Gong from the very beginning of this sport.











ZeeGerman
229 posts
8 May 2022 10:50PM
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Oh my gosh!
Hava just had a look at the the three new lines:
Fluid HA, Veloce HA and the Y PRA
and am tempted to spend a fortune and be able to test them this summer.
I've ben happy with my
X-Over XXL for lightwind winging and dock starting (although I'm just in the beginner stages here) and my
Fluid XL for winging in stronger winds.
I really have to say, so far the Gong gear really compares well to my beloved AFS windfoil which was a lot more expensive.
These new wings are expensive by Gong standards but still relatively affordable.
Very alluring!

Dspace
138 posts
9 May 2022 3:06AM
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ZeeGerman said..
Oh my gosh!
Hava just had a look at the the three new lines:
Fluid HA, Veloce HA and the Y PRA
and am tempted to spend a fortune and be able to test them this summer.
I've ben happy with my
X-Over XXL for lightwind winging and dock starting (although I'm just in the beginner stages here) and my
Fluid XL for winging in stronger winds.
I really have to say, so far the Gong gear really compares well to my beloved AFS windfoil which was a lot more expensive.
These new wings are expensive by Gong standards but still relatively affordable.
Very alluring!



I agree, and price sure is a relative term when it comes to the full foil rig

Here is the ~cost of the rig I just bought in Euro's (no VAT): Fluid LH front wing 400, 85cm carbon mast 458, Fluid-H 42cm stabilizer 141, Pro fuselage in aluminum 50. Total is 1049 euro = 1105 usd = 1566 Aus dollar. Gong offers 10% off for a full foil rig but figure that amount goes to overseas shipping so make it a wash.

Feel free to price out an Axis ART rig with a carbon mast, or Armstrong, or those pretty new Cabrinha HA foil rigs. Some will say the quality isn't the same but from my experience (especially with the latest mast options and "pro" fuselages/rear stabilizers), I think it's pretty good bang for the buck, especially since everything we're riding now is gonna become obsolete in two years, or resold for something slightly different (because we have to buy to try!)

Thatspec
WA, 88 posts
9 May 2022 9:49AM
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For some reason the Euro is ridiculously reasonable right now for both the USD and AUD.

Thatspec
WA, 88 posts
9 May 2022 10:10PM
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Pretty suspicious of the 3X drag reduction claim for the stab / fuse combo. Common sense says maybe 15% unless you're planning on running the thing backwards. The whole package though looks well worth the investment.

I think that's the furthest out I've ever seen them run a pre-order though, it'll be early August before those things hit the water in the US

Dspace
138 posts
10 May 2022 1:23AM
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Thatspec said..
Pretty suspicious of the 3X drag reduction claim for the stab / fuse combo. Common sense says maybe 15% unless you're planning on running the thing backwards. The whole package though looks well worth the investment.

I think that's the furthest out I've ever seen them run a pre-order though, it'll be early August before those things hit the water in the US


Those drag #'s are likely just computer generated #'s so I wouldn't put too much stock in them. I figure there's some improvement and leave it at that. One positive aspect that I like is the fact that the new stubby pro (aluminum) fuselage is cheap enough (50 euro) and small enough that you could buy one for each front wing and permanently bond it if you wanted to. Now you essentially have the equivalent of a Lift or Cabrinha foil rig. Might affect immediate resale, but In 2 years ALL this current wing foiling gear won't be worth much anyway

The Gong front foil to fuselage connection is the only minor weak point I've basically lived with since my first Gong foil wing 2 1/2 years ago. I even tapped in a 3rd M6 screw location to keep that connection super tight (mostly from bouncing off a sandy bottom during shallow water use). Every brand has its quirks.

Grantmac
1426 posts
10 May 2022 3:03AM
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Probably 3x drag reduction for just the tail itself, not the whole foil system.

I agree on the cost of the fuselage. I might buy a spare and convert it to an expanding front mount like the Starboard QL.

omg
243 posts
10 May 2022 2:34PM
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How solid is the fuselage to mast connection now, and will it be solid or potential for play in the long run?

Second question about these new masts (without fuselage integrated), anyone measured the thickness of the mid and bottom part of the mast, and most importantly is the new mast really_stiff now?

thanks!

Fishdude
170 posts
10 May 2022 3:23PM
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omg said..
How solid is the fuselage to mast connection now, and will it be solid or potential for play in the long run?

Second question about these new masts (without fuselage integrated), anyone measured the thickness of the mid and bottom part of the mast, and most importantly is the new mast really_stiff now?

thanks!


I've not had any wing connection issues as long as I tightened the 2 bottom screws first then the top last.

Haven't tried the carbon yet but the v2 aluminium mast has been stiff enough for my 88kg. The rough finish on the v2 aluminum mast would be my only complaint. The new carbon mast from all reports appears to have got it all right.

Those turned up wings on the Fluid H sure is interesting I'm thinking it will be another popular wing. The Fluid T's have been good for me so I think I'll make do and hold off this time on all these H series gems and wait for the user feedback.

Dspace
138 posts
10 May 2022 4:30PM
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omg said..
How solid is the fuselage to mast connection now, and will it be solid or potential for play in the long run?

Second question about these new masts (without fuselage integrated), anyone measured the thickness of the mid and bottom part of the mast, and most importantly is the new mast really_stiff now?

thanks!









I've been using Gong foil wings for 2 1/2 years now. It's a straight (not tapered) rectangular male fuselage-to rectangular female foil connection with three M6 securing screws, one long screw going into one threaded hole of the fuselage, and two shorter screws each threading into a second fuselage threaded hole, but in this case one screw from the top of the foil and the other from the bottom. Does it work? Generally yes, but they can loosen over time, especially in my case where I'm riding in lots of shallow water and occasionally bumping off a sandy bottom. Those two stubby m6 screws tend to loosen up a bit easier even when they're well tef-gelled because they're so short. My solution was to simply tap a third m6 threaded hole into the fuselage and corresponding tapered opening in the foil, and then use three long m6 screws. Been doing that for two years now and it never loosens up, even bumping off the bottom all the time.

I think the Axis front wing to fuselage connection is better, and I really like the solid single unit front wing-fuselage system that companies like Lift and Cabrinha use the best,....but given Gong's significant price advantage, I don't mind a little extra effort to get the desired result.

Regarding masts, I just got my V2 85 cm mast and from initial handling it feels like a beast, and seems long for 85cm. Makes my Moses 82cm surf mast feel tiny and flimsy in comparison, but the Gong is definitely heavier as well. I'll have make myself a decent thickness gage. Thinner than the Axis 19mm but doesn't taper down like the Moses either. Only m6 screws for the plate to board connection (that's wimpy) so might bore those out for m8's. The tuttle base is way beefier than my Moses, and has 3 brass inserts (I guess they are the replaceable type). From what I've seen, Patrice, Malo, and the rest of the Gong team are riding/jumping these V2 masts way harder and faster than I ever will in 10 lifetimes...

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison but here are the weights of the masts in the pic:

Axis 90cm/19mm with plate (no doodad): 2320 g
Gong 85cm V2: 2064 g
Moses 82 cm: 1553 g

i think I read that the Axis 86cm carbon was ~2020 g. None of this has anything to do with stiffness, but we're always curious about weight.



Grantmac
1426 posts
11 May 2022 10:35AM
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Dspace said..

omg said..
How solid is the fuselage to mast connection now, and will it be solid or potential for play in the long run?

Second question about these new masts (without fuselage integrated), anyone measured the thickness of the mid and bottom part of the mast, and most importantly is the new mast really_stiff now?

thanks!










I've been using Gong foil wings for 2 1/2 years now. It's a straight (not tapered) rectangular male fuselage-to rectangular female foil connection with three M6 securing screws, one long screw going into one threaded hole of the fuselage, and two shorter screws each threading into a second fuselage threaded hole, but in this case one screw from the top of the foil and the other from the bottom. Does it work? Generally yes, but they can loosen over time, especially in my case where I'm riding in lots of shallow water and occasionally bumping off a sandy bottom. Those two stubby m6 screws tend to loosen up a bit easier even when they're well tef-gelled because they're so short. My solution was to simply tap a third m6 threaded hole into the fuselage and corresponding tapered opening in the foil, and then use three long m6 screws. Been doing that for two years now and it never loosens up, even bumping off the bottom all the time.

I think the Axis front wing to fuselage connection is better, and I really like the solid single unit front wing-fuselage system that companies like Lift and Cabrinha use the best,....but given Gong's significant price advantage, I don't mind a little extra effort to get the desired result.

Regarding masts, I just got my V2 85 cm mast and from initial handling it feels like a beast, and seems long for 85cm. Makes my Moses 82cm surf mast feel tiny and flimsy in comparison, but the Gong is definitely heavier as well. I'll have make myself a decent thickness gage. Thinner than the Axis 19mm but doesn't taper down like the Moses either. Only m6 screws for the plate to board connection (that's wimpy) so might bore those out for m8's. The tuttle base is way beefier than my Moses, and has 3 brass inserts (I guess they are the replaceable type). From what I've seen, Patrice, Malo, and the rest of the Gong team are riding/jumping these V2 masts way harder and faster than I ever will in 10 lifetimes...

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison but here are the weights of the masts in the pic:

Axis 90cm/19mm with plate (no doodad): 2320 g
Gong 85cm V2: 2064 g
Moses 82 cm: 1553 g

i think I read that the Axis 86cm carbon was ~2020 g. None of this has anything to do with stiffness, but we're always curious about weight.





How is the Gong mast to fuselage connection holding up?

Dspace
138 posts
11 May 2022 3:36PM
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Grantmac said..


Dspace said..



omg said..
How solid is the fuselage to mast connection now, and will it be solid or potential for play in the long run?

Second question about these new masts (without fuselage integrated), anyone measured the thickness of the mid and bottom part of the mast, and most importantly is the new mast really_stiff now?

thanks!












I've been using Gong foil wings for 2 1/2 years now. It's a straight (not tapered) rectangular male fuselage-to rectangular female foil connection with three M6 securing screws, one long screw going into one threaded hole of the fuselage, and two shorter screws each threading into a second fuselage threaded hole, but in this case one screw from the top of the foil and the other from the bottom. Does it work? Generally yes, but they can loosen over time, especially in my case where I'm riding in lots of shallow water and occasionally bumping off a sandy bottom. Those two stubby m6 screws tend to loosen up a bit easier even when they're well tef-gelled because they're so short. My solution was to simply tap a third m6 threaded hole into the fuselage and corresponding tapered opening in the foil, and then use three long m6 screws. Been doing that for two years now and it never loosens up, even bumping off the bottom all the time.

I think the Axis front wing to fuselage connection is better, and I really like the solid single unit front wing-fuselage system that companies like Lift and Cabrinha use the best,....but given Gong's significant price advantage, I don't mind a little extra effort to get the desired result.

Regarding masts, I just got my V2 85 cm mast and from initial handling it feels like a beast, and seems long for 85cm. Makes my Moses 82cm surf mast feel tiny and flimsy in comparison, but the Gong is definitely heavier as well. I'll have make myself a decent thickness gage. Thinner than the Axis 19mm but doesn't taper down like the Moses either. Only m6 screws for the plate to board connection (that's wimpy) so might bore those out for m8's. The tuttle base is way beefier than my Moses, and has 3 brass inserts (I guess they are the replaceable type). From what I've seen, Patrice, Malo, and the rest of the Gong team are riding/jumping these V2 masts way harder and faster than I ever will in 10 lifetimes...

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison but here are the weights of the masts in the pic:

Axis 90cm/19mm with plate (no doodad): 2320 g
Gong 85cm V2: 2064 g
Moses 82 cm: 1553 g

i think I read that the Axis 86cm carbon was ~2020 g. None of this has anything to do with stiffness, but we're always curious about weight.







How is the Gong mast to fuselage connection holding up?



Haven't even tried it yet but I don't expect any issues. I preordered the new stubby pro fuselage to go with the Gong carbon mast but it won't show up till the end of June. Figured I didn't want that long to indoctrinate the new mast so I ordered a stock V2 fuselage and it should show up in a few days, so I'll post a quick review after I get to try it out.

The tuttle connector on the Gong mast looks way beefier than the tuttle connector on the SAB/Moses carbon masts I've been using with my Gong Veloce's for some time without issue, so again, no issue expected but we'll see. It'll be interesting to see how the Gong carbon compares to the Moses and Axis aluminum with the same front/rear wings.

Fishdude
170 posts
11 May 2022 4:57PM
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Dspace said..




omg said..
How solid is the fuselage to mast connection now, and will it be solid or potential for play in the long run?

Second question about these new masts (without fuselage integrated), anyone measured the thickness of the mid and bottom part of the mast, and most importantly is the new mast really_stiff now?

thanks!













I've been using Gong foil wings for 2 1/2 years now. It's a straight (not tapered) rectangular male fuselage-to rectangular female foil connection with three M6 securing screws, one long screw going into one threaded hole of the fuselage, and two shorter screws each threading into a second fuselage threaded hole, but in this case one screw from the top of the foil and the other from the bottom. Does it work? Generally yes, but they can loosen over time, especially in my case where I'm riding in lots of shallow water and occasionally bumping off a sandy bottom. Those two stubby m6 screws tend to loosen up a bit easier even when they're well tef-gelled because they're so short. My solution was to simply tap a third m6 threaded hole into the fuselage and corresponding tapered opening in the foil, and then use three long m6 screws. Been doing that for two years now and it never loosens up, even bumping off the bottom all the time.










Instead of using the two Stubby in the same hole, use only one stubby m6 x14 on the top. The two bottom screws are supposed to be the same size m6 x16, the top screw should be the only stubby m6 x14 used and the last one bolt tightened. You get some more hold power, and there's room to spare. Putting a third bolt in bottom is better yet, I'll keep that in mind if i ever need it.

Dspace
138 posts
18 May 2022 3:22PM
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Grantmac said..












How is the Gong mast to fuselage connection holding up?



Got to try out my Gong 85cm V2 carbon mast for the very first time on Monday. Quick summary is that I love it! This is all just seat-of-pants assessment....It felt every bit as stiff as my Axis 19mm/90cm aluminum (and really only a cm or so shorter, so I guess it runs long for it's labeled size), and a wee bit stiffer than my Moses 82cm. Using some spring calipers I'm getting a maximum thickness of ~17mm running pretty much the full length of the mast (no thickness taper) which is roughly the same as my Moses 82cm surf mast (which I had adapted to use with my Gong foil wings some time ago). The Moses does taper in thickness a small amount right near the fuselage connection so they're not exactly the same but pretty close. The Gong V2 carbon is wider (guess you'd say a slightly lower aspect ratio) than both the Axis and Moses. Again, my seat-of-the-pants feel is that this added width helps improve stiffness without detracting from speed or adding much extra weight. Who knows whether that's true or not, It just felt great on the water

I got in about 27km of flatwater winging with my go-to Veloce LT and Veloce 43cm stabilizer, my 4 and 5m Slicks, and my 75 liter/4'9" FoilSurfMachine board. My top recorded speed was 23 kts, pretty much the same as with my Moses 82cm. Of course that's if you believe my Apple Watch gps. The mast-to-fuselage connection also felt completely rock solid. It's much beefier than my Moses surf mast to fuselage connection and just inspires more confidence about accidentally hitting things...I was practicing behind-the-back tacks this session, meaning lots of falling for this klutzy 63 yr old!

So after 2 years I'm finally back to an all Gong foil rig with the new carbon mast, and very happy with it. I think this mast will work perfectly with the new stubby pro fuselage and "H" stabilizers, and of course the new HA front wings. Selling my Moses and Axis masts and consolidating back to one brand for both wing and kite foiling. Axis and SAB/Moses are of course excellent brands (not bashing them at all), just happy to simplify my foiling gear and not get carried away on spending more $$$$





Grantmac
1426 posts
19 May 2022 2:57AM
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How stable do you find the Veloce? Specifically in roll...

Dspace
138 posts
19 May 2022 5:55AM
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Grantmac said..
How stable do you find the Veloce? Specifically in roll...


All the Veloce's I currently own (XXL, XL and LT) feel quite stable while rolling and when locked in a carve. They also pivot turn easily without much slip. Like any front foil, they are pitch sensitive to the size of the rear wing you're pairing them with. That pitch sensitivity just gets amplified while constantly rolling in and out of tacks and jibes. I generally like to use a "mid-range" rear wing (not too big, not too small). Feel like I get the best balance of stability and speed/maneuverability that way. Thankfully (for me anyway) Patrice does not give you an endless stream of rear wing options along with fuselage and shim options. Try a few rear wing sizes (I have 47cm, 43cm and 39cm Veloce stabilizers) and decide which I like best for each of my front wings,..done. I've always liked that I feel balanced on a Gong foil rig right out of the box

i remember doing a close side by side compare of my Veloce LT/43cm stab with an Axis ART999/380-60. I loved the stability, glide and pump of the 999 but of course it wasn't as "throw-around" turny as the LT. What really surprised me was that the glide and pump of the LT wasn't that far behind the 999 at all

Grantmac
1426 posts
19 May 2022 10:13AM
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I'm using a Veloce XL in a setup I've made up using some Starboard components, I find it almost unrideable in terms of roll stability. I think perhaps I've got a tail compatibility issue.
I should try and see about finding the 43cm Gong tail.

Dspace
138 posts
19 May 2022 4:05PM
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Grantmac said..
I'm using a Veloce XL in a setup I've made up using some Starboard components, I find it almost unrideable in terms of roll stability. I think perhaps I've got a tail compatibility issue.
I should try and see about finding the 43cm Gong tail.


Yep, I'd either recommend the 43cm or better yet the 47cm Veloce stabilizer. With such favorable pricing why not just get a V2 fuselage, V2 aluminum mast and top plate? Then you'll have a turn-key balanced rig to start with. No fiddling required.

My very fist performance foil beyond the foil I learned on (original Gong Pro XL) back around April 2020, was the Veloce XL and the Veloce 47cm stabilizer. I thought for sure I would struggle with a higher performance foil, but I got on it, and it felt great from day one. Always easier to start with a slightly larger rear wing imho.

Good luck!



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"New GONG HA Stabs with Carbon tail fuselage, greatly reducing weight and drag" started by FoilColorado