Forums > Wing Foiling General

Wingfoil tack - hitting the wall

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Created by Velocicraptor > 9 months ago, 30 Jul 2021
Velocicraptor
231 posts
30 Jul 2021 6:32PM
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Looking for any breakthrough advice on my tack.

i can get around on the toeside-> heelside tack but I always hit a wall and stall when I'm just past pointing upwind and ive grabbed the back handle. Once I get the handle I can yank myself around and pump back up but I can't seem to finish the turn on foil. I feel like I need to carry more speed through the turn but I just hit that upwind moment, it kills my speed, and then I have to really force things around.

Any advice or particularly insightful videos are welcome.

im on a high aspect wing which tends to carve a more drawn out radius FYI.

foilthegreats
365 posts
30 Jul 2021 8:22PM
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Point down wind pickup up speed then aggressively execute the tack. The whole maneuver should be executed in 2 seconds. If you go to slow you'll start floundering when going through the wind. The key for me is taking an attack mindset for this move. Speed and fast execution.

Heel side Tack on HA1125 and Dart 4m:
www.instagram.com/p/CR3smOPAxay/?utm_medium=copy_link

Windoc
220 posts
30 Jul 2021 11:42PM
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My hit rate on foiling toe side tacks is pretty good and heel side tacks are probably 50/50 at this point as I work on them less. Like Foilthegreats said, speed is key as is the front hand action. I find keeping the front hand in front of you and overhead really helps. Trust the glide of the foil through the eye of the wind and keep pressure on the foil in turning; letting off even a bit here often results in coming off foil. As you go through the eye of the wind, be looking for the back handle early, keeping the nose driving through the turn to slightly downwind. Sheet back in on the new tack keeping the board driving forward with more front foot pressure. I find the toeside tack can be cranked pretty sharply, almost like a hoss tack in windsurfing (if that helps). Really accentuate where you want the board to go by turning your head in that direction as you swap hands. If you find yourself stalling the turn and coming off foil, pay attention to where you were looking and where the front hand is. Sometimes a couple of quick taps on the foil will get you through the last bit too. Hope something in here helps!

robbo1111
NSW, 591 posts
31 Jul 2021 12:01PM
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Can555 said..
My hit rate on foiling toe side tacks is pretty good and heel side tacks are probably 50/50 at this point as I work on them less. Like Foilthegreats said, speed is key as is the front hand action. I find keeping the front hand in front of you and overhead really helps. Trust the glide of the foil through the eye of the wind and keep pressure on the foil in turning; letting off even a bit here often results in coming off foil. As you go through the eye of the wind, be looking for the back handle early, keeping the nose driving through the turn to slightly downwind. Sheet back in on the new tack keeping the board driving forward with more front foot pressure. I find the toeside tack can be cranked pretty sharply, almost like a hoss tack in windsurfing (if that helps). Really accentuate where you want the board to go by turning your head in that direction as you swap hands. If you find yourself stalling the turn and coming off foil, pay attention to where you were looking and where the front hand is. Sometimes a couple of quick taps on the foil will get you through the last bit too. Hope something in here helps!


Great description, you have nailed it perfectly

Dspace
152 posts
31 Jul 2021 3:28PM
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Velocicraptor, I'm curious what front foil wing you are riding on?
Here's what I'll add. This is a short clip of some my very first more successful toe-to-heelside tacks back in Dec of 2019. Not pretty but I got them around. The foil wing I was on was a Gong Pro XL (1900 sq cm!). Also on an original Duotone wing and big ole Blue Planet 5'8"/114 L board (sure seems like ancient times now). One of the key factors to readily staying up on foil throughout the tack for me was what I call "corkscrew" progression of your turn. Even now after a gazillion additional tacks (both heel and toe side) and 360's since then, I still do a bit of a corkscrew progression.
Like the previous posters have said you definitely go into the tack with speed but don't get overly hung up on high speed as the key to success. In this early video I'm not really going all that fast. My tack starts out as a traditional "carve" turn but as I head into the eye of the wind it changes quickly to much more of a quick "pivot" turn where I use my legs to "push" the board through the rest of the turn quickly, hence the "corkscrew" term. The problem in watching a video is that it's hard to tell between general carving and when someone is using their legs to pivot turn. Anyway, this gets you through the eye of the wind on foil quickly,.but of course you need to roll the wing quickly and be ready to regrab quickly in order to stay on foil because you've lost a lot of speed at the end of the turn. I'm not a mad pumper so I rely more on that pivot finish with a quick regrab. I think a decent size front foil gives you a bit more leeway before it stalls at that critical regrab moment when your learning your tacks.

FWIW , every time I try and learn a new move by being super aggressive with speed and rapid hard carving, I fail miserably. I need to be aggressive, BUT methodically smooth to make it work. If I rush anything I fail. For the harder heel-to-toeside tacks and 360's that's even more the case.

Yesterday I finally started up again on my behind-the-back tacks (did a few of them last year) and always had to "smooth" myself out to get them close to working. Good luck!

Dspace
152 posts
31 Jul 2021 8:49PM
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I should also mention that those wide high aspect wings don't make very tight carving turns or go extremely fast, but they can be "pivot" turned or "pushed" turned pretty tightly, and of course the big ones have a really low stall speed. You can practice doing s-turns to get that pivot turn feeling by using your legs to make turn rather than traditional "lean and bank the foil". Even my monster Veloce XXL can be "pushed" around in a reasonably tight radius in light wind for upwind tacking that stays on foil (well, at least some of the time ). This day was a light wind session using a 6m ECHO and Veloce XXL. Basically my lower wind limit for tacking, with a lot grass in the water just adding to the challenge. I was amazed I could get any tacks on foil at all! It felt like I was almost standing still on the foil


Velocicraptor
231 posts
31 Jul 2021 10:22PM
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These are all very helpful replies. Thank you.

after studying some of these videos I think I need to be really deliberate in driving with my front foot as I come around, bordering on a pump. Going to get back out there today and play with it more.
thanks!

sunsetsailboards
331 posts
2 Aug 2021 12:32AM
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Don't know if this is the case for you, but many people when learning tacks take too long to pull the wing over their head. I try to explain it as the leading edge of the wing going to the inside of the turn early so the wing will lead you through the turn instead of your dragging the wing through the tack. going off the wind a bit to get your speed up can help if your foil has good glide. I find tacks easiest when I am traveling at a comfortable speed.
Finally, I tend to try to end high on the foil so I can coast back down as I transition to the new point of sail

WhiteofHeart
750 posts
2 Aug 2021 1:45AM
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You might also be grabbing the wing to early, pulling it back towards you and stopping your turn. Your turn should be fluid, let the back handle come to you instead of you reaching for it & grabbing it early.

That motion of pulling the wing across the wind and keeping it there is what often makes or breaks the tack.

Velocicraptor
231 posts
3 Aug 2021 9:47AM
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I got it today and these comments helped!

the biggest trick for me was bringing the new leading hand around with purpose, which shifted my shoulders. bringing that hand across the body and dropping it lower brought my shoulders and hips around to finish the turn.
i think my issue was holding the leading hand to high and stalling thing out. I was too focused on grabbing the back handle and I was holding the front hand too high and in front of me.
that feeling of whipping around high on the foil is good!

sunsetsailboards
331 posts
3 Aug 2021 1:22PM
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NICE!!

WhiteofHeart
750 posts
3 Aug 2021 4:50PM
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Congrats!

Windoc
220 posts
3 Aug 2021 10:47PM
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Oh yeah!

Dspace
152 posts
4 Aug 2021 2:16PM
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Velocicraptor said..
I got it today and these comments helped!

the biggest trick for me was bringing the new leading hand around with purpose, which shifted my shoulders. bringing that hand across the body and dropping it lower brought my shoulders and hips around to finish the turn.
i think my issue was holding the leading hand to high and stalling thing out. I was too focused on grabbing the back handle and I was holding the front hand too high and in front of me.
that feeling of whipping around high on the foil is good!


Great! Next up, ...heel-to-toeside. And don't be shy about trying some 360's right away as well. Even if you just go for a couple of attempts each session while your perfecting your toe-to heelside tacks you'll get there sooner than you think.

WhiteofHeart
750 posts
4 Aug 2021 6:26PM
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Heel-to-toe is not much harder, took me 1 session after I got toe-to-heel! Just make sure you really bank into the turn hard. Pull the wing to the back of the board to help the carve into the wind and flip it over your head fairly late (compared to toe-to-heel). I found heel-to-toe easier with a little more wind, whilst I find toe-to-heel easier with a little less wind.

mcrt
478 posts
4 Aug 2021 8:14PM
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One thing that is helping me with finishing the toe-to-heel tacks is focusing on keepin constant and even pressure on the toes all through the turn , when i keep the foil carving round without any wobbles i finish with speed and height.
When i release pressure even for a second i flop.

baldy123
WA, 265 posts
4 Aug 2021 10:57PM
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Some wings definitely tack better than others. The doutone boomed are a joy to tack. One little trick I sometimes do is put my back hand on the rear of the leading edge when passing through the eye of the wind. It really helps to stabilise the wing and slice through the wind and get onto the new tack with more speed. Here is a video from SupTomo doing this move.

www.instagram.com/reel/CMEZu0ZnmYj/?utm_medium=copy_link

ArtemN
SA, 69 posts
5 Jul 2022 4:29PM
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Might be helpful for someone trying to nail it down:

IanInca
190 posts
6 Jul 2022 12:57AM
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foilthegreats said..
Point down wind pickup up speed then aggressively execute the tack. The whole maneuver should be executed in 2 seconds. If you go to slow you'll start floundering when going through the wind. The key for me is taking an attack mindset for this move. Speed and fast execution.

Heel side Tack on HA1125 and Dart 4m:
www.instagram.com/p/CR3smOPAxay/?utm_medium=copy_link


That's interesting, on the heelside tack you swap front hands before you carve up wind. I will try this...

Dspace
152 posts
6 Jul 2022 1:41AM
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IanInca said..

That's interesting, on the heelside tack you swap front hands before you carve up wind. I will try this...


Not required, and for some people it can make the upwind carve even more awkward. Watch 4 different people and you'll likely see 4 different variations of the same thing.

leepasty
115 posts
6 Jul 2022 3:23AM
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Select to expand quote
IanInca said..

foilthegreats said..
Point down wind pickup up speed then aggressively execute the tack. The whole maneuver should be executed in 2 seconds. If you go to slow you'll start floundering when going through the wind. The key for me is taking an attack mindset for this move. Speed and fast execution.

Heel side Tack on HA1125 and Dart 4m:
www.instagram.com/p/CR3smOPAxay/?utm_medium=copy_link



That's interesting, on the heelside tack you swap front hands before you carve up wind. I will try this...


Maybe it's a small wing like 3m? For sure on big wings you need to bring it way over to windward and allow the wing to roll before swapping hands

sunsetsailboards
331 posts
6 Jul 2022 4:30AM
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BTW, not sure how long this feature has existed, but YouTube allows you to share "clips" of videos... short segments that loop kind of like an IG clip. Not sure how they resolve on a browser (doesn't work correctly in my messaging app) so will test here.

Edit: looks like sharing and embedding the clip does not work. will also try embedding w/ a time stamp/start (apparently that does not work either... clip I was trying to share starts at 70sec or 1:10



?t=70

juandesooka
591 posts
6 Jul 2022 4:34AM
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Nice thread rescue from forum depths. I am just working on these now. A few thoughts that may help someone else:

-- I did it on land with a skateboard, about 200 repetitions, the muscle memory transferred over directly. Oddly, a tack is easier than a gybe on skateboard.

-- have to commit to the turn...that's my biggest problem, chickening out. And if you chicken out, then you'll fall straight back...impact vest is a nice add in this phase

-- really helps me to change hands before the turn....then it feels more like surf foiling, just grab a wing after the turn.

-- medium wind...powered enough to be solid, but not cranking. I got a nice surprise trying it in high 20s with my 4m, turns out wind has a lot of force on the wing even when luffed over head :-) Back to tip2 about impact vest, and a helmet too. :-)

Taavi
29 posts
8 Jul 2022 4:21PM
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Some of my tacks (both heel and toe side) and 360s and jibes after 3 months of wing foiling, and some pointers, hope these are helpful for someone:

- If you have a foil that glides well, be patient while tacking in light wind with a bigger wing. It will take some time for the wing to go to the other side, don't rush with grabbing the handle, just enjoy the turn, keep the speed and eventually, by the time you are heading in the proper direction, the wing has flipped to the other side.

- If you have a wing with long handles then hold the wing from the very front of the handle. Then the wing is more neutral and has less drag while moving towards the wind.

- With a slower foil that does not keep the speed so well just do your movements slightly faster. With higher aspect foils you have plenty of time to fly and finish the tack.


leepasty
115 posts
8 Jul 2022 8:55PM
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Here you can see how far over to windward I bring my front hand. once the wing flips it means you have gone through the wind so it's time to swap hands



NordRoi
473 posts
8 Jul 2022 11:00PM
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For toe side tack, if you have a wing that stay loaded over head, if you do a little tap at the back of the strut or if you direct it into the turn(make it point toward the turn), it will make it flip the other side and load. That was a big break for me when I realized it. I had no problem with glide, carve etc...but the wing was too loaded to make it to the other side.

sunsetsailboards
331 posts
12 Jul 2022 2:55AM
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just do it like this, right? how hard could it be?

www.instagram.com/p/CTxDfkMlsS7/

Windoc
220 posts
12 Jul 2022 7:30AM
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sunsetsailboards said..
just do it like this, right? how hard could it be?

www.instagram.com/p/CTxDfkMlsS7/


Oooh. That's something to aim for!

Dspace
152 posts
12 Jul 2022 3:16PM
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Select to expand quote
Windoc said..


sunsetsailboards said..
just do it like this, right? how hard could it be?

www.instagram.com/p/CTxDfkMlsS7/




Oooh. That's something to aim for!



Ken Adgate gets some incredible glide with a $3500 Mikes Lab foil rig. Actually next up after a toe and heel side tacks are "behind-the-back" tacks. Way more release-regrab motions required while your carving through wind compared to you're average tack. You can also go directly from your toe or heel side tack right into a jibe and give it a 360 feel..which is what Ken does very well. Or you can go into a jibe with enough speed and never regrab in the other direction, rather just keep the carve going with one hand on the wing right into a tack. Or just do a very brief regrab for a second or two, then release and go into the tack. Another way of doing a 360.

Lots of variations possible beyond the basic tack!!



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"Wingfoil tack - hitting the wall" started by Velocicraptor