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All Forums > Kitesurfing > General > Bar with cam cleat or depower strap
Author Bar with cam cleat or depower strap
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VIC
3657 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 10:06 am        Report    
Interesting concept by Zeeko. its a bar with no cam cleat or depower strap. Not sure how well it would work in reality, or what the long term durability of the system would be. There are also question marks about the depowering process when you're massively overpowered, but that said, its nice to see one of the smaller brands trying to simply things using innovative concepts.
WA
25 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 11:35 am        Report    
Looks good. nice not having any ropes or straps flapping around when de-powered. i wonder how well it holds.
WA
636 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 11:38 am        Report    
Thats brilliant and so simple, using a basic larks head setup to grab the rope and its self adjusting too. I am going to be tinkering after KS. Cheers Rich
VIC
1741 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 1:00 pm        Report    
I'm not so sure..... How long will it last ? I can see sand being a real issue in that device.... And the pulley above the bar will also come under a lot of stress. I hate clam cleats.... Not user friendly at all. Trim Straps as found on Cabrinhas are probably the cleanest solution but they also suffer from sand abrasion leading to breakage.
QLD
86 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 1:13 pm        Report    
Thats great I can see that taking off nice and clean. On another note some of the coarse race guys don't have a cleat at all they have a stopper with is preset to max power and they play the trim line with one hand ( they have the trim line extra long so its down past the bar ) and they steer the kite with the other hand .
WA
636 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 1:53 pm        Report    
Hey Harry, If they had to replace the top and bottom (if there is a bottom pulley) pulleys with rings/bolt I can't see the problem because everything else on it self adjusts and the only possible wear is from bar movement and a bit from the ring (if you are always adjusting. Agree the cabs are one of the cleanest around but the webbing does wear and weaken with age and sun damage - I have had one snap on me burt due to the 2:1 pulley setup I did not loose the front lines but instead was fully powered, it was fun walking back to get someone to catch my kite. Cheers Rich
WA
107 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 6:05 pm        Report    
I'm gonna have mine next week normally! If anyone want to have a look just PM me.....
WA
501 Posts
Posted 25/01/2012, 7:26 pm        Report    
Nice and clean system. Wear and tear may not be that much of a problem since there are no metal parts, only ropes, which can be replaced easily. My concern is that depowering the kite brings the stopper closer and then it has to be pushed out in order for the depower to take effect. I wouldn't like the stopper get stuck at that point. I also wonder if the stopper would work at all in stronger pull / wind.... Very interesting concept, though..... Rich, let me know when you start playing with it....
VIC
1688 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 7:02 am        Report    
I have had this bar for some 12+ months now and it works a treat. there is no wear issues and this one bar is used on all kites I fly. I import Zeeko so take these comments as biased. PM for any more info. as for depower concerns :- the depower strap has a lot of travel and copes with any depower need, short of ditching to safety. the beauty of this system is that the depower strap is right at bar wherever you set it. you also have a suicide leash setup that still goes to full safety when you operate the Chicken loop. there are no pulleys.
QLD
1141 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 7:36 am        Report    
RAL INN said...
...there are no pulleys.
Are you sure? Looks like a pulley at 02:34 Interesting concept, good to see new ideas like this
WA
501 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 8:02 am        Report    
there appear to be two pulleys, one in the black cover at the base below the bar, the other one is visible.... I'd certainly like to try one... it seems OK for 4 and 5 lines depending on where the red safety line leads to...
South Sandwich Islands
1075 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 8:29 am        Report    
Stabber kites will be interested in this concept....Here at Stabber kites we'd call it Stabbzee
NSW
3604 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 8:46 am        Report    
Wouldn't you at stabber kites call it a stabBAR...?
VIC
51 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 8:57 am        Report    
I like it, I like it a lot. Nice simple clean design. Should open up this forum in the gear reviews. Who is distributing Zeeko stuff in Melbourne, or Australia for that matter? Can this bar set up be used on a range of kites, or kite manufacturers set ups or just Zeeko kites? Sorry RAL INN didn't notice your comments. Can you answer my questions? How much are these bars, and do they come in different sizes or configurations?
WA
107 Posts
Posted 26/01/2012, 11:28 am        Report    
RAL INN said...
I have had this bar for some 12+ months now and it works a treat. there is no wear issues and this one bar is used on all kites I fly.
This system has been released 2 weeks ago so I doubt you've had it for 12 months... Must be the 2011 one with the 2 long straps...
WA
734 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 11:26 am        Report    
looks good but I cannot understand why so many manufacturers have a "push away" safety release. If you are being dragged by the kite, then having to "push" a release in the direction you are being dragged seems illogical. Seems that a "pull" release would be safer, as you'd only have to latch onto it and the kite pulling away from you would release itself ? Look at the release mechanism on the 2007 - 2008 airush bar to see what I mean.
VIC
980 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 11:34 am        Report    
au_rick said...
looks good but I cannot understand why so many manufacturers have a "push away" safety release. If you are being dragged by the kite, then having to "push" a release in the direction you are being dragged seems illogical. Seems that a "pull" release would be safer, as you'd only have to latch onto it and the kite pulling away from you would release itself ? Look at the release mechanism on the 2007 - 2008 airush bar to see what I mean.
What about the people that unhook and pull the CL towards them after a trick? I've got a pull to release CL and i'd much prefer a push to release
VIC
3657 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 11:48 am        Report    
au_rick said...
looks good but I cannot understand why so many manufacturers have a "push away" safety release. If you are being dragged by the kite, then having to "push" a release in the direction you are being dragged seems illogical. Seems that a "pull" release would be safer, as you'd only have to latch onto it and the kite pulling away from you would release itself ? Look at the release mechanism on the 2007 - 2008 airush bar to see what I mean.
One simple reason. The pull release doesn't work on the kite if there is no pressure from the kite itself. I.e. lets say for argument that you have a kite falling out the sky and you know its going to rip you. With a push release, you're pushing against the chicken loop hooked into your spreader bar, with a pull release, there is no pull from the kite so it won't work. Same could apply to release your kite in a wave. i.e. if your kite drops out of the sky and is washed towards you, there is no pressure on the lines so you can't pull the QR. Some people use the velcro pull concept on one side (Takoon) but the disadvantage of this is that it works with no pull from the kite, but is only available to pull with either your right side or left side of your body.
WA
734 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 12:17 pm        Report    
Saffer said...
au_rick said...
looks good but I cannot understand why so many manufacturers have a "push away" safety release. If you are being dragged by the kite, then having to "push" a release in the direction you are being dragged seems illogical. Seems that a "pull" release would be safer, as you'd only have to latch onto it and the kite pulling away from you would release itself ? Look at the release mechanism on the 2007 - 2008 airush bar to see what I mean.
One simple reason. The pull release doesn't work on the kite if there is no pressure from the kite itself. I.e. lets say for argument that you have a kite falling out the sky and you know its going to rip you. With a push release, you're pushing against the chicken loop hooked into your spreader bar, with a pull release, there is no pull from the kite so it won't work. Same could apply to release your kite in a wave. i.e. if your kite drops out of the sky and is washed towards you, there is no pressure on the lines so you can't pull the QR. Some people use the velcro pull concept on one side (Takoon) but the disadvantage of this is that it works with no pull from the kite, but is only available to pull with either your right side or left side of your body.
makes sense, thanks.
VIC
1688 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 2:33 pm        Report    
There are NO pulleys, the top goes through a ring and the bottom through a guide in the Chicken loop, in the bars so far in Australia. The Next Gen Bar as you are looking at it was first released to public with the 2011 Notus 3 kites last January. I had one before that. The 2012 Zeeko Krush was released last September. the bar in the video is coming soon. Yes it can be set up for other kites, but may need some fine tuning of which knots etc. to use to best work with other kites, as all are different(slightly) In the real world the actual changing of depower length at most happens once a session. which means there is no reason for any wear beyond normal. PM me for pricing etc. I won't post such stuff as it upsets Laurie.
WA
279 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 2:45 pm        Report    
Great use of a couple of basic climbing knots and certainly a flexible system. One question though, how is it to set some depower before launch or removed depower once landed, these knots from memory are typically painful to work with when there's no tension on the rope?
WA
501 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 4:06 pm        Report    
RAL INN said...
There are NO pulleys, the top goes through a ring and the bottom through a guide in the Chicken loop,
See the video at 2:16 and 2.26 !!
VIC
3657 Posts
Posted 27/01/2012, 5:58 pm        Report    
RAL INN said...
There are NO pulleys, the top goes through a ring and the bottom through a guide in the Chicken loop, in the bars so far in Australia. The Next Gen Bar as you are looking at it was first released to public with the 2011 Notus 3 kites last January. I had one before that. The 2012 Zeeko Krush was released last September. the bar in the video is coming soon. Yes it can be set up for other kites, but may need some fine tuning of which knots etc. to use to best work with other kites, as all are different(slightly) In the real world the actual changing of depower length at most happens once a session. which means there is no reason for any wear beyond normal. PM me for pricing etc. I won't post such stuff as it upsets Laurie.
Unless I don't know what a pulley is, I'm pretty sure this is a pulley
VIC
1688 Posts
Posted 28/01/2012, 9:12 am        Report    
Yea, when I read my post I sounded confusing. I was referring to the Next Gen bar not the UDS bar. was trying to say that so far we have only brought in the Next Gen bar. This New UDS bar is coming soon, very soon. for some reason (Australia day beer) I was thinking we were talking about the Next Gen bar to start with.
WA
1021 Posts
Posted 28/01/2012, 10:17 am        Report    
Top effort for thinking outside the square on this bar Now being a huge Ronstan strength and safety 'Pulley' fan - a few mods to get this bar to up where it needs to be.. 1. Pulley needs to be fail proof obviously - use a 6 mm pulley, the rope thru will not break if the pulley shaft does 2. Use this type of Low friction ring to aid easy line movement and reduced line wear and a little less messy also if the ring should break... you are still rope conected A few extra pics that show why pulleys fail - remember the bar video clip conection too... An incorrectly setup pulley will prematurely wear, buckle and break eventually - if setup like this without a continuous line loop to balance the load bearing surface evenly !!! This shows bad attachment (red) results in single side pressure, not recomended by Ronstan as it leads to failure - sometimes a standard practise in kite industry This pic shows the result of the off centred attachement and also it can buckle and break shaft end and lastly the intended ronstan connection loop for balanced loading I guess those who kite with pulleys may need to start rechecking/moding stuff unless of course your awesome at mutiple mega looping up the beach car park
VIC
1158 Posts
Posted 28/01/2012, 4:16 pm        Report    
The 2011/2012 Naish Bar has a stainless "saddle" with no moving parts and a spinning attachment which works well. Pulleys are best when you have constant travel of lines through them eg. in a bridle or on bar ends. Because you tend to "set and forget" depower it doesn't matter so much.
WA
107 Posts
Posted 08/02/2012, 3:20 pm        Report    
Just had a few sesh with my new Zeeko bar. Works perfect, very clever system, so easy to use. Kites are terrific too.
VIC
1688 Posts
Posted 08/02/2012, 5:13 pm        Report    
great to hear. Tell us about using the depower?????
WA
72 Posts
Posted 09/02/2012, 3:35 pm        Report    
au_rick said...
Saffer said...
au_rick said...
looks good but I cannot understand why so many manufacturers have a "push away" safety release. If you are being dragged by the kite, then having to "push" a release in the direction you are being dragged seems illogical. Seems that a "pull" release would be safer, as you'd only have to latch onto it and the kite pulling away from you would release itself ? Look at the release mechanism on the 2007 - 2008 airush bar to see what I mean.
I broke my finger on Christmas eve activating the lease with saftely line wrapping around my finger as it dived. Ripped tendons, broken finger, still getting OT. And yesterday got taken out by a stingray as well. Not bad for a 8 week newbie?? One simple reason. The pull release doesn't work on the kite if there is no pressure from the kite itself. I.e. lets say for argument that you have a kite falling out the sky and you know its going to rip you. With a push release, you're pushing against the chicken loop hooked into your spreader bar, with a pull release, there is no pull from the kite so it won't work. Same could apply to release your kite in a wave. i.e. if your kite drops out of the sky and is washed towards you, there is no pressure on the lines so you can't pull the QR. Some people use the velcro pull concept on one side (Takoon) but the disadvantage of this is that it works with no pull from the kite, but is only available to pull with either your right side or left side of your body.
makes sense, thanks.
WA
107 Posts
Posted 09/02/2012, 5:13 pm        Report    
RAL INN said...
great to hear. Tell us about using the depower?????
It works a treat. I've had a few sesh in light and strong wind so I tried different settings. It is so easy to use. Probably the most clever system I've ever used. I was a bit scared about the fact that when you pull the strap the stopper is also moving down so in my mind this would prevent from being able to sheet out the kite. But not at all.... Just using the bar to push the stopper away. My other worry was about the stopper to go away when you let go off the bar. But it doesn't... All good, I love it. Let's see how it's wear out with the time and use now.
VIC
1688 Posts
Posted 14/02/2012, 2:34 pm        Report    
Thanks for that, keep us posted. did you previously have the next Gen bar?
 
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