Forums > Kitesurfing General

Kite Inflation Idea - not Pump

Created by richswing > 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012
richswing
WA, 697 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 14:51
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I thought of an idea this morning running around the house looking for a pump that worked - a CHEMICAL REACTION PUMP.

Now I realize that this is a possible bomb in the making but with the right design (pressure relief valves, etc) and a chemical that can generate enough gas to inflate an average 12m kite.

Ideally the chemicals would be freely available, say something like bicarbinate soda and vinegar, drop a couple of bicarb tabs into a container and Bobs your uncle your kite is inflated.

Obviously it is not the most cost effective way but if you are traveling and the size could be kept down to a minimum it could be ideal. And if you have a bit of a binge drinking session you could down a bicarb tab.

Any Chem Engineers that could say Yay or Nay out there?

Rich

RPM
WA, 1549 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 15:16
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richswing said...

I thought of an idea this morning running around the house looking for a pump that worked - a CHEMICAL REACTION PUMP.

Now I realize that this is a possible bomb in the making but with the right design (pressure relief valves, etc) and a chemical that can generate enough gas to inflate an average 12m kite.

Ideally the chemicals would be freely available, say something like bicarbinate soda and vinegar, drop a couple of bicarb tabs into a container and Bobs your uncle your kite is inflated.

Obviously it is not the most cost effective way but if you are traveling and the size could be kept down to a minimum it could be ideal. And if you have a bit of a binge drinking session you could down a bicarb tab.

Any Chem Engineers that could say Yay or Nay out there?

Rich


Richswing... I think that you should blow up your kites using you mouth.. You will be out of breath but will be a safer option than an unregulated chemical reaction inside the latex bladder.. Chemicals+bladder = kaboom and more $$$$ for you to replace it..

Is it really that hard to use a pump.. Or are MLC types that lazy??

Danmurphys
WA, 227 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 15:28
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Im a process eng, not chem, but your idea is not really practical to produce the required volume and pressure. Vinegar in your bladders wouldnt be fun either and would eventually dissolve them over time. Have you tried using those tiny CO2 cartridges used to quickly inflate bike tyres? The valves are really simple and could easily be adapted.

From memory one small canister inflates two road cycling tyres to 110 psi. So id estimate that youd need 4-5 small canisters to get a 12m up to around 8-9psi. CO2 is about 1.5 the mass of air so it would be interesting to see what it does to kite performance. Nitrogen is about the same weight as air so nitrogen cartridges would be the go if they are available and cheap.

lotofwind
NSW, 4641 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 17:41
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I run a hose from the exaust of my car,
3 hard revs and a 10m is pumped to perfection.
The kite feels so much lighter on the bar, as the exaust air is warm so is lighter than the normal air temp.

richswing
WA, 697 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 15:49
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Firstly I don't blow, unless it is an inflatable toy - Hmm, my kite my toy but I was actually thinking of kids inflatable toys.

Secondly, Whats an MLC type -

I did a bit of a calc, may not be right, but I would need about a litre of bcarb and a 1/4 litre of vinegar to inflate a kite that holds about 15litres of air - f knows at what pressure, would most probably have to finish off with what RPM said.

I was desperate this morning, just finsihed off fixing the trailing edge of my new second hand 10m RPM, I must say I frighten myself some times, and not one of my pumps worked, the wife had left with my silicon lube and my only working pump in the car. The only pump that I had was one that I used to suck water out of the drain in the shower that was full of crap and you needed a tonne to push it down.

It was just an idea, maybe chlorine (pool chemicals) and brake fluid will work

Rich

suniboy21
VIC, 1090 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 17:51
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300 cans of shaving cream!

richswing
WA, 697 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 16:03
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MLC - Mid Life Crisis

Haven't got there yet even though I own a SUP, the wife is still useful and I can't afford a Porche) but it was a crisis without a pump.

Cheers
Rich

suniboy21
VIC, 1090 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 18:06
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But on a serious note....
What about asmall compressed air bottle like you see fitted to paintball guns? 2-3litres
Fill it up at home with your air compressor?
Would it hold enough air?

pirrad
SA, 799 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 17:45
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Just an idea.

&feature=fvsr

richswing
WA, 697 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 16:48
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Classic!

terminal
1421 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 16:57
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suniboy21 said...

But on a serious note....
What about asmall compressed air bottle like you see fitted to paintball guns? 2-3litres
Fill it up at home with your air compressor?
Would it hold enough air?


Britney was in such a hurry getting there ahead of you she forgot to button her shorts up.

AirSic
WA, 40 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 17:02
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Air is approx. 78% N2 and 21% O2 the other 1% consists of various other components such as Ar (Argon), water vapour etc, etc therefore the volume of gas
required to inflate a kite would have no effect on performance whether you used pure N2 or Air.

LiveToFly said...

Im a process eng, not chem, but your idea is not really practical to produce the required volume and pressure. Vinegar in your bladders wouldnt be fun either and would eventually dissolve them over time. Have you tried using those tiny CO2 cartridges used to quickly inflate bike tyres? The valves are really simple and could easily be adapted.

From memory one small canister inflates two road cycling tyres to 110 psi. So id estimate that youd need 4-5 small canisters to get a 12m up to around 8-9psi. CO2 is about 1.5 the mass of air so it would be interesting to see what it does to kite performance. Nitrogen is about the same weight as air so nitrogen cartridges would be the go if they are available and cheap.


Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1164 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 17:18
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Far out, so nice of Britney to demo in her undies with her shorts half down.
I still havnt figured out what she is doing, the double messages have my brain reeling.

Phewwwwwww

GutterMouth
NSW, 26 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 19:50
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PPL that hate pumps are just like PPL that use straps,IMHO

richswing
WA, 697 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 17:54
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Maybe Britney is a blow-up doll and her inflate valve was not buttonup properly.

I would give her a pri#$, sorry mean hand.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 5996 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 20:02
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Brain did not compute that vid, all I could see was a chick with wine bottle & ciggie & shorts undone. Wouldn't let her near my... kite!

pirrad
SA, 799 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 19:54
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anyone had any expirience using fire extinguishers as air storage tanks ?? got a couple floating around

Rattlehead
QLD, 532 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 20:48
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pirrad said...

anyone had any expirience using fire extinguishers as air storage tanks ?? got a couple floating around


Yeh no good emptied a couple of 9 kg water extinguishers ,filled them up as full as I could with my compressor at home ,you need 2 full extinguishers to blow up a 12 m kite , not really practical ,what you could do is pump 3/4 of it up with 1 ext and use a hand pump for the rest, getting it up to pressure is the hard bit,

The go is to use a scuba tank , but unless you know someone with a dive compressor( luckily I do) it would cost a fortune , disadvantage is that scuba tanks weight a ton.

lotofwind
NSW, 4641 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 21:04
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Is pumping up a kite really that hard?
I know it takes all of 60 seconds, it is such exausting hard work??

Chris6791
WA, 2880 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 19:41
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God bless youtube.

Mark _australia
WA, 16399 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 19:43
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If you really don't want to pump, just charge up an old scuba cylinder or fire extinguisher and get 30 inflations out of it

Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1164 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 21:30
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Ive got it, I just want to pump with Britney ..

Agent 554
WA, 12 posts
> 9 months ago, 25 Apr 2012 22:31
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would dry ice work? i remember reading somewhere that it expands 800 times its volume as it returns to a gas...
just take some eskys to the beach, keeps your beers cold too!!!

Wisha
SA, 252 posts
> 9 months ago, 26 Apr 2012 21:36
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What about a big scoop in a funnel shape that you point into the wind. Attached is a kite hose. Use the scoop to get a fair bit of air in, use the pump to finish it off. The wind pressure is there anyway, no moving parts??

Wisha
SA, 252 posts
> 9 months ago, 26 Apr 2012 21:55
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Or a wind powered compressor with fan blades (in a cage), attach to kite, point into the wind.....

Construct a windmill at your local kite beach, with a standard pump hose attachment, everyone can use it.

Till then air matress pump, powered by cordless drill battery.

Hunter S
WA, 483 posts
> 9 months ago, 26 Apr 2012 21:00
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You're an ideas man Wisha

Burls
201 posts
> 9 months ago, 28 Apr 2012 07:43
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Wisha said...

Or a wind powered compressor with fan blades (in a cage), attach to kite, point into the wind.....

Construct a windmill at your local kite beach, with a standard pump hose attachment, everyone can use it.

Till then air matress pump, powered by cordless drill battery.




We're gonna need a bigger car...........

Yoshee
WA, 23 posts
> 9 months ago, 28 Apr 2012 08:26
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Composite inflation systems have been around for donkeys. Find a aviation wrecking yard and you will probably find a ton in the life raft and escape systems.

From wiki.
A gas generator usually refers to a device, often similar to a solid rocket or a liquid rocket that burns to produce large volumes of relatively cool gas, instead of maximizing the temperature and specific impulse. The low temperature allows the gas to be put to use more easily in many applications....Gas generators are used to ......to deploy airbags, and in other cases where large volumes of gas are needed, and storing it as a pressurized gas is undesirable or impractical.

You could always try a boat flare jammed into a suitable pipe or hose.

I'll bring the beers!

Danmurphys
WA, 227 posts
> 9 months ago, 6 May 2012 17:18
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AirSic said...

Air is approx. 78% N2 and 21% O2 the other 1% consists of various other components such as Ar (Argon), water vapour etc, etc therefore the volume of gas
required to inflate a kite would have no effect on performance whether you used pure N2 or Air.
LiveToFly said...

...Nitrogen is about the same weight as air so nitrogen cartridges would be the go if they are available and cheap.



yep AirSic thats what i said.. N2 and air are approx the same weight.

The tiny light weight bike tyre cartridges are CO2 which is slightly heavier and when i get time im gonna give this idea a go.

Saffer
VIC, 4110 posts
> 9 months ago, 6 May 2012 21:10
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What about this?

richswing
WA, 697 posts
> 9 months ago, 6 May 2012 20:04
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Hey Saffer,

That is such a brilliant simple, especially if you are travelling, i think I am going to make one with a one way valve.

When you have inflated one kite and need to change down or up is to use a piece of tubing, even the inflation tube and connect the bladders together and inflate the one kite from the other.



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"Kite Inflation Idea - not Pump" started by richswing