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airhead
WA
Australia
602 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 1:22 pm
   
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System: Spinning leash with metal pin type quick release on chicken loop (Gastra).
Location: Phone Box 22/02/04
Circumstances: Luffed the kite on a large boost, the kite powered up just before hitting the water and I over corrected and sent it into a death spiral which dragged me several hundred metres downwind. For the next 20-30 seconds I made continual attempts to pull the quick release but due to the extreme load the pin would NOT pull free. Fortunately I managed to force the kite to crash nose down in the water at which point the pin finally released.
Conclusion: This type of system is a death trap  and does not operate under extreme loads. I will now be purchasing a Witchard but am still concerned about it's ability to operate effectively as I have heard of at least one failure when the load was light, eg., the kite was luffing but that's something I think can live with. |
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Beer Bong
WA
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 2:35 pm
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As a failsafe on this system, I used a hacksaw to chop off the nylon loop that is meant to go through your spreader bar hook. That leaves you with the end of the swivel exposed (looks like a little "D" shackle). I've attached a stainless steel snap shackle to my spreader bar (above the hook) and then I insert the open snap shackle into the swivel, and I'm secure! So if your situation arises again and there's a large object approaching, release your snap shackle. It's a last resort as you'll lose the kite completely, but at least you'll be safe.
Clive |
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airhead
WA
Australia
602 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 4:31 pm
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Clive
My understanding is that only a true Witchard is suitable under loaded conditions as these are desinged to release spinikers and the like on yachts. An ordinary snap shackle is totally ineffective when under load, eg., >100kgs |
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Beer Bong
WA
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 4:46 pm
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Hey Neil,
This is a snap shackle that you'll buy at Whitworths or Yacht Grot for 50 odd bucks. My mates in Sydney use them (one runs a large kite shop), and have had no probs. And mine's released under heavy loads.
Anyway, another drastic alternative if you haven't got one already is a quick release spreader bar as your last resort. My old pro-limit harness came with it and it's great.
See what John G recommends too.....good luck
Clive |
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airhead
WA
Australia
602 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 5:26 pm
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| In the final moments before bringing the kite down I started reaching for the quick release on my Prolimits harness but with the sand and salt exposure it's not exactly working at an optimum level. |
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Beer Bong
WA
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 5:30 pm
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| Sounds like it was all stacked against you that day!!! |
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PaulG
WA
Australia
92 Posts |
Posted 23/02/2004, 5:58 pm
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The 'Ronstan' snap shackle you can buy at Whitworths for about $45 is a precision made shackle. Alot of guys use these.
Stay away from the cheaper one they sell though. |
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n/a693
18 Posts |
Posted 26/02/2004, 6:36 pm
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Hi Paul
The Ronstan Brand are well made but the shackles are not designed for kitesurfing and many accidents and bad kitemares have been caused by them.
All cheap copies of that type of side pull shackle are dangerosu too, even more so because the release ring pulls out because it is not welded. The Ronstan release ring is welded but will break, or fail to release
Look at the design closely, it is not designed to release high loads, the more load placed in the shackle the harder it becomes to release.
The rounded tip of the cheap ones causes the chicken loop to catch there, even if the shackle does open.
There are several other "issues" with this type of shackle.
The only shackle to use, if you must use a shackle is the Wichard 2673 and 2674, and care must be taken to rig them properly too.
Can anyone tell me if I can post photos on this forum?
Steve McCormack |
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tiki
43 Posts |
Posted 26/02/2004, 7:13 pm
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| ( I have one of those wichards for sale by the way...I changed chicken loop setup so no longer need it, but does work as described, ie releases under load if required). Contact me if anyone wants to buy it. |
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howley
WA
Australia
316 Posts |
Posted 26/02/2004, 8:11 pm
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quote:
For the next 20-30 seconds I made continual attempts to pull the quick release but due to the extreme load the pin would NOT pull free
Were you trying to pull the red tab or the shackle release?
Luke |
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bonster
WA
Australia
139 Posts |
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andyc
WA
Australia
195 Posts |
Posted 26/02/2004, 9:59 pm
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I have a feeling you are talking about the metal shackle that comes on the safety leash of the gaastras. These aren't wichard shackles, so they won't work under high tension, but the kites power should already be released by pulling the red tab attached to the chicken loop.
If you're talking about the red tab then I can't understand how tension could stop you pulling the pin. I've used mine many times. Take it immediately to the place of purchase so they can make changes. Many companies use the metal pin holding ropes looped thru each other, but that doesn't mean it's okay for it not to work.
Best advice on the matter comes from how to rip and fireman mike. It's to USE your safety system before you need to. Test it! Even to the extent of getting used to using it. |
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airhead
WA
Australia
602 Posts |
Posted 27/02/2004, 10:27 am
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Luke & Andy
I was definately pulling the red webbing attached to the pin and not the shakle on the safety leash. I did have time to check!!!
As I said the pin finally released when the kite was in the water. Yes there was still some load on it but nothing like when it was in a tight loop directly in the power zone. The wind was up around the 20-22 knot mark and I was flying an 11.5m kite which felt very powered up.
Has anyone ever had to use this type of quick release under an extreme load. I can only guess that it may have been something like 150kgs or more. |
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sarmyles
WA
Australia
20 Posts |
Posted 27/02/2004, 2:31 pm
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I have been using a genuine Witchard with all my flysufers for over a year and has always released without any drama
Paying an extra $30 for peace of mind well worthwile
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Hepburn
WA
Australia
5 Posts |
Posted 03/03/2004, 1:35 pm
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I have a 2004 Slingshot Bar which has a “pull the pin” QR on the chicken loop. Your death spiral experience gave me some concern so I rigged myself up to the roof rafters and simulated a dead weight on this QR.
You are dead right that the QR will not pull free, unless you pull it in a certain manner.
Normally the QR loop is quite low down on your body and hence when you grab it and pull, you tend not to pull exactly vertically down, but rather down and slightly out (away from the loop towards your body). After many tests, I was unable to release the QR no matter how hard I pulled and how long I took to do so, assuming my whole body weight was being help by the chicken loop.
The only way in which I could activate the QR was to consciously pull only vertically down on the loop, but then the Velcro on the loop tends to re-engage, which makes it harder.
Also pulling only vertically down is not that easy due to the space available above your harness hook.
Altogether it is not a system, which will operate easily and I think that the manufacturers of these QR mechanisms need to improve them.
Iain |
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airhead
WA
Australia
602 Posts |
Posted 03/03/2004, 5:01 pm
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Iain,
Glad you were able to replicate my problem in a controlled environment. This type of QR system is of no value what so ever and lulls the user into a false sense of security. |
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howley
WA
Australia
316 Posts |
Posted 11/03/2004, 7:26 pm
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I think everyone should know how to use their safety system before they go out and be familiar with doing it. As Hepburn said, you have to pull it in a certain way, and you should know that before you have to use the system in an emergency. Pull it every session if you have to, just to familiarise yourself with it. Also note that if the pin is rusty, it won't release, so keep it maintained!
Don't blame the system, because it does work.
Airhead, if you felt very powered up, you should have come in. Common sense is the best safety system of them all! |
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