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Forums > Windsurfing > General > Woohoo tried out my "shortboard"
Author Woohoo tried out my "shortboard"
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NSW
441 Posts
Posted 10/1/2011, 4:50 pm        Report
On the way north on New Year's Eve I stopped at the Broadwater, I think that's what it's called, and tried out the still unused to me Fanatic XCross 140 (135lt x 260cm + 42 fin). I was going to put the Kona One in but decided to give the XCross a go as the sandbank on the other side looked inviting and rescue me from stuff ups and the wind was up enough for it. Others there, nice people and good to sail with new faces, had 6.0-6.7 but they looked lighter than me. So I put up the 7.5 Ezzy Freeride and had a few short runs, rig and board flies in this combo! Gusts around 20+knots with a steady 15+knots and I was holding the 7.5 down and just on the verge of being overpowered in the bigger gusts. Flatwater made things more manageable. Straps were easy to get into. Stuffed up every gybe but towards the end of the session I was getting a feel of the board's turning ability...but I was buggered from flipping the sail into possie to waterstart so it was a good excuse to crash and burn. Pity we had to get back on the road north for Peregian, there was another hour of sunlight left. Nice to stand on sand than mud for a change too. This is the first "modern" shortboard I've used after my waveboard from the late '80s, so after a near 20 year break from it it felt good to be on something shorter than the Kona One. Ironic that the Fanatic is the same length as my old glassboard but at a guess 30+ litres more! Pity the run was very short compared to where I currently sail, I might get a chance to have another go in a day or two in our local lake and give it a decent run now that I'm home. I now know that it can point quite well at speed so dodging oyster leases should be OK...I think. Also fitted brand new longer adjustable harness lines, a progress from my home made jobbies. Still trying to find the happy medium length as I was literally dragging my arse when reaching but OK-ish bearing away. I lowered the boom near down to the bottom of the boom cutout on the sail as I want to use the tail of the board to help me with water starts, just have to fiddle with the harness line length now. Here's a pic my son took of me bearing away on my first run, I got on to full plane and pointed it downwind to dodge the houseboat and the board took off like a rocket...wooohoooo! At this speed it was easy to steer/point. Combined with experimenting with new harness lines and boom height = verge of catapulting in a big way. Pics are good to use to analyse sail, rig and body possie, there's a lot to be desired! This is only my 3rd photo of me taken in windsurfing, last one was around '82-83! And no I'm not wearing a Gath helmet...fark all my hair has gone white...geezus I've become an old fart!
WA
3719 Posts
Posted 10/1/2011, 5:54 pm        Report
Reckon with your dedication by your report, won’t be long before you get the system sorted, well done. Just a tip, get a Gath or something equivalent, saves ya noggin , and the grey hair from colouring claret when you bash your cruet. I know your just starting out on a new kit, but see if you can link up with some of the guys from the GPSTC in your area. Best bunch about to get some great advise and tips from. http://gpsteamchallenge.com.au/
QLD
2478 Posts
Posted 10/1/2011, 6:46 pm        Report
mineral1 said... Just a tip, get a Gath or something equivalent, saves ya noggin , and the grey hair from colouring claret when you bash your cruet.
Love your use of the Australian vernacular in this post!
NSW
441 Posts
Posted 10/1/2011, 6:58 pm        Report
mineral1 said...
Reckon with your dedication by your report, won’t be long before you get the system sorted, well done. Just a tip, get a Gath or something equivalent, saves ya noggin , and the grey hair from colouring claret when you bash your cruet. I know your just starting out on a new kit, but see if you can link up with some of the guys from the GPSTC in your area. Best bunch about to get some great advise and tips from. http://gpsteamchallenge.com.au/
Gath....hmmm on the second run I stuffed a gybe when I got hit by a gust just as I leaned over and it flattened me, I went into the boom chin first, if I keep this up I reckon a Gridiron helmet may be a better idea! Since my return to the sport at the beginning of last year...wow that sounds a long time ago...I've hurt myself more than when I was hardcore in the '80s, and I've only been in flatwater! GPSTC, I joined the local club 9 months ago. Now that I've broken the cherry so to speak with the shortboard I might invest in a GT31 so I can justify being in the club! Baby steps at the moment but I'm feeling good with my progress.
NSW
517 Posts
Posted 10/1/2011, 7:46 pm        Report
Good on ya Raf, you look like you were screaming along. Well played mate. Regards, Adam
SA
189 Posts
Posted 10/1/2011, 8:29 pm        Report
well done Raf!!! I remember the feeling well. Be the ball!!
NSW
4374 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 6:15 am        Report
Good to see your back into it! Have fun!Ps - Looking at the photo when did the windshadow of the houseboat hit you? Always got to be ready for that!
35 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 8:51 am        Report
Are you wearing a seat harness?
NSW
441 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 11:09 am        Report
R0CKSTAR said...
Are you wearing a seat harness?
Yes, it's a new seat-waist style that has a mid height hook. Have to get used to this new one but it does make weighing the sail much better than the waist one (that I've overgrown) and takes my weight off the board, excellent for blasting. Harder to get in and out of though hopefully fixed when I sort out the best harness line length. Here's a pic from the same session, I needed to dog leg around the houseboat but it showed how close my arse was to the water when I just started to point the board into a close reach. I tried straightening my legs but found I put too much weight outboard and lost speed when the sail tilted to the wind too much. Also straightening up when I started to bear away and it wanted to catapult me. Have to find a compromise of getting my fat arse higher with shortened harness lines + boom height + stance. It'll come good just need some more TOW. At least this pic shows the 7.5 trim is correct I think, it's full and peeling off nicely at the head so I must be getting the downhaul right....finally. It's quite a solid sail in this wind for a no-cam sail, I'm impressed with it. It feels a bit more "locked-in" than when set up on the Kona One in the same wind, probably has to do with transferring power into speed more quickly than on a bigger and heavier board me thinks (shrugs).
35 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 12:37 pm        Report
Yeah I was going to say your stance is a bit out. Definitely shorter harness lines & higher boom will help. How long are your harness lines?
WA
117 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 1:20 pm        Report
Looks like you need to straighten your legs and point your toes. You want your feet pushing across the board not down into it. You got a bit of the poo stance going on
NSW
517 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 1:22 pm        Report
R0CKSTAR said...
Yeah I was going to say your stance is a bit out. Definitely shorter harness lines & higher boom will help. How long are your harness lines?
Hey Raf, I agree with RockStar, shorter lines and a higher boom will bring your stance more upright and keep your a$$ out of the chop. the higher boom will also inturn allow you more leverage and therefore more control over the sail. The sail looks like it is twisting off nicely. The picture doesn't show clearly enough to make proper judgement on how loose the leech is though. My Ezzys were the same model, and when it is real windy/overpowered conditions you should down haul more (within Ezzy guideline markers, and then also adjust the outhaul) and the top twists off so much it almost looks useless, but they also feel real controlable and fast. The skinny masts (RDMs) make a big difference with this too, I found with the Ezzy's the RDMs flex more (and flex faster) and make the sail more easy to control as well. I remember you were having trouble downhauling more with your current mast and sail. What i do when i need more downhaul, and if it is difficult, i wrap the rope around the harness hook whilst wearing the harness, then i sit down and and put my foot against the mast base and PUSH with my foot whilst leaning back! Dont know how fragile that old mast of yours is, so be careful. Cheers, Adam
NSW
4374 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 1:37 pm        Report
AJEaster said...
R0CKSTAR said...
Yeah I was going to say your stance is a bit out. Definitely shorter harness lines & higher boom will help. How long are your harness lines?
Hey Raf, I agree with RockStar, shorter lines and a higher boom will bring your stance more upright and keep your a$$ out of the chop. the higher boom will also inturn allow you more leverage and therefore more control over the sail. The sail looks like it is twisting off nicely. The picture doesn't show clearly enough to make proper judgement on how loose the leech is though. My Ezzys were the same model, and when it is real windy/overpowered conditions you should down haul more (within Ezzy guideline markers, and then also adjust the outhaul) and the top twists off so much it almost looks useless, but they also feel real controlable and fast. The skinny masts (RDMs) make a big difference with this too, I found with the Ezzy's the RDMs flex more (and flex faster) and make the sail more easy to control as well. I remember you were having trouble downhauling more with your current mast and sail. What i do when i need more downhaul, and if it is difficult, i wrap the rope around the harness hook whilst wearing the harness, then i sit down and and put my foot against the mast base and PUSH with my foot whilst leaning back! Dont know how fragile that old mast of yours is, so be careful. Cheers, Adam
Ok I'm no expert but this is my experience since getting back into it. Re boom height.This pic is one of me when i first got back into it after 6years off..Boom too low prob a hang over from wavesailing Another 6 months ago..lousy stance but shows the boom height difference.. Another the same day Since then I've changed my stance to lower to the water..Still finding my way but I've decided not to be embarassed if I sail a bit differently to others as long as it seems to work I'll stick with it..Maybe it would work against me if I wanted to compete at high levels but I'll never be fit enough to do that. I remember being embarassed the first time I saw the way I used to hang off the side of my motorbike cornering as it looked a bit different to others..but it worked & I used to get along quite well! I've been trying to get my harness lines longer lately.Ive changed my stance after watching a Gem Hall video.I used to get down lower to the water in the 90's but had changed last year to try & stand more upright like everyone else.After seeing the video I liked his lowdown stance ( still stretched out not sitting) and decided it suits me better.With my weight it doesn't take much to overpower me and it seems I can hang onto larger sails if I hang lower/outboard closer to the water.Apparently it also helps you handle chop especially gybing keeping crouched ( still got to master that I stand too upright).I think it might make it harder for jumps though.. Anyway yesterday with the longer lines I just couldn't seem to pull the sail on comfortably.I came in & raised the boom a couple of inches & wow! Effortless + it was earlier planing..pity I waited until the last few runs to adjust things..
SA
459 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 1:58 pm        Report
AJEaster said...
a higher boom will bring your stance more upright and keep your a$$ out of the chop. the higher boom will also inturn allow you more leverage and therefore more control over the sail.
it is clear to see the boom is waaaaay too low (or you need radically short harness lines but i don't recommend that!). larger sails are difficult to waterstart. using the tail of the board to float the sail makes it easier but comes at a cost - the more you learn to sail with such a low boom, the harder it will be to break the habit. i unfortunately speak from experience. there are other techniques to clear the sail, that just need a bit of practice. on my larger cammed sail i'll often go to the head, fly that first and now with wind in the sail, i inch my way down to the boom holding the mast in the air with my upwind hand. my the time you get to the boom, it's entirely out of the water and ready to go. with some practice you can even rig-flip the sail while you're still in the water without it going under, and that can make waterstarting all the less painfull. once you can get away from relying on the board to float the rig, you'll be able to ride the boom higher, and enjoy much more control through a powerful stance (which should look like a '7'). it will be some tough love initially, but you'll improve far quicker for it! good luck and keep us informed.
NSW
441 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 2:55 pm        Report
Yeah you are all correct and what I was thinking. Adam, good to hear from you, and Rockstar I agree whole heartedly with the boom height , I use normal chest high when on the Kona One, but I was trying to find a compromise in boom height and harness line length (range 26"-32" and set at approx 30"-31") and utilise the boards tail. I didn't have a long enough session to experiment much more but definately pulled them in a bit from full length after the first run. 2nd pic is returning from the first run out, adjusted 'em a bit when I reached the beach but still dragged my arse...which I reckon is my stance. But I remeber doing similar things to my old waist harness when I used it with a clip-on seat and took the "poo stance" as wespyyl put it. Nearly got it right but kept on sailing coz I was hooting along and having fun and running out of time quickly. Good heads up Trousers, I will or have developed bad habits from this, it's a carry over attitude from my old waveboard where the mast track was waaay forward compared to todays standards and plonking the boom on the tail was easier work. I also noticed that because the track is around 30cm further back on the Fanatic the nose of the board wants to turn into the wind much more than I remember with the '80s glassboard when you actually hoik up the sail in a waterstart. The Kona is like the old glassboard so I haven't noticed the difference. Normally I can still jerk the sail from around boom height if it was laying mast to wind in the water on the lee side of the board, this usually pops it up enough for the wind to do the work and I swing the mast tip into the wind and I'm up again. But if I stuff up after a few goes I'm pooped. That's were fitness comes in or a PFD! I still know how to water start in near zero wind using the monkey climb up the foot of the sail and mast but fark if I can do it now. TOW TOW TOW. Thanks for the feedback people's it's much appreciated.
NSW
517 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 3:02 pm        Report
^^^^^^good point trousers makes on the waterstarting using the boom. Must have skipped that point you made in your first post. Break that habbit.....boom up, get the stance more upright, more control, safer and faster sailing, but harder waterstarts.............but consider you are sailing for longer in a session then you are trying to waterstart (timewise....well hopefully) so waterstarting without the back of the board is somthing worth learning Hope to see you on the water again soon when i replace my car and gear EDIT: sorry Raf, you posted just as I was posting, didnt see your reply
NSW
441 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 3:28 pm        Report
wespyyl said...
Looks like you need to straighten your legs and point your toes. You want your feet pushing across the board not down into it. You got a bit of the poo stance going on
"Poo stance"? ROFL, I thought that was a surfing term but yeah when I look at the pic LOL. The pic shows me just turning the board upwind so the rail is down, I had no problem when I went flat chat and keeping the board flat especially on the bearaways (see first pic)....that's one skill I regained quickly even with the Kona! Thank goodness I could still do that well!
NSW
441 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 3:31 pm        Report
AJEaster said...
Hope to see you on the water again soon when i replace my car and gear
Replace? Car and gear didn't get nicked did it?
NSW
517 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 3:45 pm        Report
nosinkanow said...
AJEaster said...
Hope to see you on the water again soon when i replace my car and gear
Replace? Car and gear didn't get nicked did it?
you bet....car, gear, the lot....a$$holes....if you see my gear around the traps or on ebay please let me know mate...cheers (see the link for a list) http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/New-South-Wales/Stolen-Car-and-Gear-Lake-Cathie-port-Macquarie/
NSW
441 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 4:27 pm        Report
AJEaster said...
nosinkanow said...
AJEaster said...
Hope to see you on the water again soon when i replace my car and gear
Replace? Car and gear didn't get nicked did it?
you bet....car, gear, the lot....a$$holes....if you see my gear around the traps or on ebay please let me know mate...cheers (see the link for a list) http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/New-South-Wales/Stolen-Car-and-Gear-Lake-Cathie-port-Macquarie/
Damn! Pack of arse wipes! That's around a week after I saw you. My son's good friend had his car broken into 2 days before you at Middlerock as well whilst he was surfing. They emptied it out but left the car. Can't be locals as the car used to belong to Brad from BMD Surfboards with his logos and a million other surf stickers all over it. It is a recognised and respected local's car. Most of the thieving around here are from non locals who know these spots and many I guess are veterans. Holiday season is really bad around here. Best defence is to drive onto the beach if the high tide mark is way down and park it there. Geez, hope you get some of it back. I've been robbed 3 times by low-life thieves and have absolutely no sympathy for them.
35 Posts
Posted 11/1/2011, 4:38 pm        Report
nosinkanow said...
, I use normal chest high when on the Kona One, but I was trying to find a compromise in boom height and harness line length (range 26"-32" and set at approx 30"-31") Thanks for the feedback people's it's much appreciated.
I use 18" harness lines and tend to have boom at shoulder/chin height. Having a higher boom & shorter lines are things that feel more comfortable as you get a bit more experience.
NSW
104 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 8:35 am        Report
Trousers said... ...there are other techniques to clear the sail, that just need a bit of practice. on my larger cammed sail i'll often go to the head, fly that first and now with wind in the sail, i inch my way down to the boom holding the mast in the air with my upwind hand. By the time you get to the boom, it's entirely out of the water and ready to go. with some practice you can even rig-flip the sail while you're still in the water without it going under, and that can make waterstarting all the less painful.
I am really needing help with this one. I can waterstart well now using the technique Nonsinka describes with the boom on the tail of the board. But now with a shorter board, this option is taken away. Lifting the mast presents a real challenge for me, as i am finding more often than not the mast will "turtle" and be held underwater by the force of the wind on the uppermost side, with the mast from any angle to the wind from 0-90 deg. When trying to lift/shake the mast tip, to try and get some wind underneath, I end up sinking (unless I am standing in shallower water). Also, I get frustrated, that when I get the wind under the sail, work my way down, the clew sinks into the water. I guess the whole process would be easier in stronger winds/no gusts/smaller sail combo. How can I make things easier for myself? When I was in Maui everything was so much simpler!
NSW
4374 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 8:40 am        Report
nosinkanow said...
Yeah you are all correct and what I was thinking. Adam, good to hear from you, and Rockstar I agree whole heartedly with the boom height , I use normal chest high when on the Kona One, but I was trying to find a compromise in boom height and harness line length (range 26"-32" and set at approx 30"-31") and utilise the boards tail. I didn't have a long enough session to experiment much more but definately pulled them in a bit from full length after the first run. 2nd pic is returning from the first run out, adjusted 'em a bit when I reached the beach but still dragged my arse...which I reckon is my stance. But I remeber doing similar things to my old waist harness when I used it with a clip-on seat and took the "poo stance" as wespyyl put it. Nearly got it right but kept on sailing coz I was hooting along and having fun and running out of time quickly. Good heads up Trousers, I will or have developed bad habits from this, it's a carry over attitude from my old waveboard where the mast track was waaay forward compared to todays standards and plonking the boom on the tail was easier work. I also noticed that because the track is around 30cm further back on the Fanatic the nose of the board wants to turn into the wind much more than I remember with the '80s glassboard when you actually hoik up the sail in a waterstart. The Kona is like the old glassboard so I haven't noticed the difference. Normally I can still jerk the sail from around boom height if it was laying mast to wind in the water on the lee side of the board, this usually pops it up enough for the wind to do the work and I swing the mast tip into the wind and I'm up again. But if I stuff up after a few goes I'm pooped. That's were fitness comes in or a PFD! I still know how to water start in near zero wind using the monkey climb up the foot of the sail and mast but fark if I can do it now. TOW TOW TOW. Thanks for the feedback people's it's much appreciated.
Yep us old critters need a PFD ( I got it right this time! I only realised I'd stuffed up with the term PDF about a month after I did the PDF post..)..
NSW
4374 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 8:42 am        Report
nosinkanow said...
AJEaster said...
nosinkanow said...
AJEaster said...
Hope to see you on the water again soon when i replace my car and gear
Replace? Car and gear didn't get nicked did it?
you bet....car, gear, the lot....a$$holes....if you see my gear around the traps or on ebay please let me know mate...cheers (see the link for a list) http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/New-South-Wales/Stolen-Car-and-Gear-Lake-Cathie-port-Macquarie/
Damn! Pack of arse wipes! That's around a week after I saw you. My son's good friend had his car broken into 2 days before you at Middlerock as well whilst he was surfing. They emptied it out but left the car. Can't be locals as the car used to belong to Brad from BMD Surfboards with his logos and a million other surf stickers all over it. It is a recognised and respected local's car. Most of the thieving around here are from non locals who know these spots and many I guess are veterans. Holiday season is really bad around here. Best defence is to drive onto the beach if the high tide mark is way down and park it there. Geez, hope you get some of it back. I've been robbed 3 times by low-life thieves and have absolutely no sympathy for them.
Bugger..@##$!lowlifes..
NSW
4374 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 8:43 am        Report
Gidget said...
Trousers said... ...there are other techniques to clear the sail, that just need a bit of practice. on my larger cammed sail i'll often go to the head, fly that first and now with wind in the sail, i inch my way down to the boom holding the mast in the air with my upwind hand. By the time you get to the boom, it's entirely out of the water and ready to go. with some practice you can even rig-flip the sail while you're still in the water without it going under, and that can make waterstarting all the less painful.
I am really needing help with this one. I can waterstart well now using the technique Nonsinka describes with the boom on the tail of the board. But now with a shorter board, this option is taken away. Lifting the mast presents a real challenge for me, as i am finding more often than not the mast will "turtle" and be held underwater by the force of the wind on the uppermost side, with the mast from any angle to the wind from 0-90 deg. When trying to lift/shake the mast tip, to try and get some wind underneath, I end up sinking (unless I am standing in shallower water). Also, I get frustrated, that when I get the wind under the sail, work my way down, the clew sinks into the water. I guess the whole process would be easier in stronger winds/no gusts/smaller sail combo. How can I make things easier for myself? When I was in Maui everything was so much simpler!
A daggy PFD.. and only using the low volume boards in consistent planing winds..( I'm a whoose..)
35 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 9:39 am        Report
Gidget said...
Trousers said... ...there are other techniques to clear the sail, that just need a bit of practice. on my larger cammed sail i'll often go to the head, fly that first and now with wind in the sail, i inch my way down to the boom holding the mast in the air with my upwind hand. By the time you get to the boom, it's entirely out of the water and ready to go. with some practice you can even rig-flip the sail while you're still in the water without it going under, and that can make waterstarting all the less painful.
I am really needing help with this one. I can waterstart well now using the technique Nonsinka describes with the boom on the tail of the board. But now with a shorter board, this option is taken away. Lifting the mast presents a real challenge for me, as i am finding more often than not the mast will "turtle" and be held underwater by the force of the wind on the uppermost side, with the mast from any angle to the wind from 0-90 deg. When trying to lift/shake the mast tip, to try and get some wind underneath, I end up sinking (unless I am standing in shallower water). Also, I get frustrated, that when I get the wind under the sail, work my way down, the clew sinks into the water. I guess the whole process would be easier in stronger winds/no gusts/smaller sail combo. How can I make things easier for myself? When I was in Maui everything was so much simpler!
So basically you are having issues trying to 'fly' the rig? i.e get it out of the water? You need to ensure that the mast is perpendicular to the wind. If it's slightly off you'll have problems. Even in a light breeze you should be able to fly it with very little effort. If I ever have issues getting it out the water, I just swim it round, until it's in the right position.
NSW
104 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 10:06 am        Report
R0CKSTAR said... So basically you are having issues trying to 'fly' the rig? i.e get it out of the water? You need to ensure that the mast is perpendicular to the wind. If it's slightly off you'll have problems. Even in a light breeze you should be able to fly it with very little effort. If I ever have issues getting it out the water, I just swim it round, until it's in the right position.
Yes, flying the rig is the problem. Seems that my mast tip always wants to sink, you would think that it was weighted down with lead. Retrieving it from the depths is the challenge, even when perpendicular to the wind, as the wind seems to want to dig to sail deeper, with the force on the upper side of the sail combined with the weight of the water, and I use all my energy trying to get it to water level, attempting get it to the point of allowing the wind underneath to enable me to lift and fly the sail. Once I get the mast out of the water, as long as the clew doesn't sink, I don't have a problem. It is getting to that point. Perhaps this could be the problem of the "floatier" longboard that I am practising with (angles, wind force to the horizontal plane, etc), and I haven't had a chance to try it out on the shorter board yet. I guess I need lots more practice !
SA
459 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 10:22 am        Report
Gidget said... How can I make things easier for myself?
sboardcrazy is bang on. get yourself a bouyancy vest and that will help give you leverage in the water over the big sails. you still might sink yourself in certain conditions, but anticipate it and kick agressively to provide 'lift' as you go for it. i always try and wear one on my big sails for this reason (i try to wear one at all times as they are excellent rib-protectors as well!) the thing about waterstarting is, unless you fall in a perfect starting position, it is almost always exhausting. when you start to get your gybes, you do less waterstarting, and have more energy for those times you do fall in. doing waterstarts at the end of every leg will take its toll on almost every windsurfer.
NSW
104 Posts
Posted 12/1/2011, 10:36 am        Report
Trousers said...
Gidget said... How can I make things easier for myself?
sboardcrazy is bang on...the thing about waterstarting is, unless you fall in a perfect starting position, it is almost always exhausting.
Thanks for that sboardcrazy and trousers. Some folks pay big money to go to the gym and get a similar workout! The positive is it's gonna make me fit
 
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