rough terrain......

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greenE
greenE
47 posts
47 posts
12 May 2013 3:32am
hiya, where i am we have a sand quarry and the terrain is bit rough in places,i am trying to build my yacht so it can handle it better,theres loads of smooth parts and tracks etc too,and its always windy here as a bonus ;-)
wheels and tyres i have in mind are 100cc kids quad and sized 19x7-8 (aeon cobra 100cc), they are pretty light weight too,also could someone clarify why the front steering forks are (to me being a motorcyclist) at such a daft angle? is it to make the kart run straight without really steering? (ackerman effect steering but on a severe scale lol)
and my next daft question is........ we have our own quad/bike 3.4 mile track (very wide open space) with a few jumps,(hehe) think you know whats comming? lol, does anyone here do jumps with ur blokart or other terrain roughr than flat beach sand? (and grass). my m8s bet me i cant clear the double jump in the quarry! i bet him i could :-O
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
12 May 2013 11:02am
OK .... the steering angle of land yachts looks strange, but it is similar to bicycles and motorbikes when they are traveling at speed, next time your out on a motorbike have a look at the front wheel angle when you are turning at speed...

Land yachts 'off road' on bumpy tracks an be fun, balloon tyres would be worthwhile but jumping could be difficult as yachts generate a lot of down force and remember with wind in the sail it will try and twist the yacht, if you want to do jumps 'kite buggies' would be the way to go.
docheckle
docheckle
15 posts
15 posts
16 May 2013 4:26am
Do the jumps, I dare you, but make sure you video it for us all to see !!!
docheckle
docheckle
15 posts
15 posts
16 May 2013 4:27am
Gizmo that steering angle is nothing like bicycles or motorcycles, the rake is 2-3 times that of a standard motorcycle or bicycle
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
16 May 2013 7:01pm
I have had my lefroy mini airborne,

landing was a very memorable experience.......
no damage to the landyacht at all, but I have am pretty sure my kidneys swapped sides

stephen
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
16 May 2013 9:29pm
docheckle said..

Gizmo that steering angle is nothing like bicycles or motorcycles, the rake is 2-3 times that of a standard motorcycle or bicycle


Have a look at this video and take a keen eye on the front wheel angle (NOT the fork angle) during the turning. The video shows the angle on the front wheel is caused by 2 things, first the turning handle bars turning and the second part is the motor bike chassis angle.
On a land yacht the chassis doesn't roll so the steering needs to take this into account.



Now have a look at this video at the 2.30 point and watch the front wheel angle of the land yacht....



Very similar in the angles the wheel actually leans......
docheckle
docheckle
15 posts
15 posts
16 May 2013 11:06pm
Gizz so how do you explain the king pin angle on a car ? A line through the headstock on a motorcycle intersects the ground infront of the contact patch of the tyre to provide castoring action to make it stable, the same with a car. However the land yacht's axis extension is behind the contact patch relying on the weight of the yacht to centre it.
Even on chopper motorcycles with extreme rake on the forks the turning axis is infront of the contact patch on the tyre.

The front geometry of a land yacht cannot be compared to any other road vehicle

Cheers tim
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
16 May 2013 11:41pm
docheckle said..However the land yacht's axis extension is behind the contact patch relying on the weight of the yacht to centre it.Cheers tim


A Lake Lefroy Mini is intended to have "centrepoint steering", where the axis line intersects with the centre of the tyres contact patch.

I couldnt say for sure if other designs follow the same principal.

stephen.



docheckle
docheckle
15 posts
15 posts
17 May 2013 1:35am
which is nothing like cars and bikes, thats that one sorted then
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
17 May 2013 6:45pm
sn said..

docheckle said..However the land yacht's axis extension is behind the contact patch relying on the weight of the yacht to centre it.Cheers tim


A Lake Lefroy Mini is intended to have "centrepoint steering", where the axis line intersects with the centre of the tyres contact patch.

I couldnt say for sure if other designs follow the same principal.

stephen.





The axis line is lined up with the centre of the tyre patch because of the sail side thrust If it had trail like a car or motorcycle it would always want to run off down wind when the pressure of the sail came on The layover component is to help with keeping the tyre on the rim Its all for a purpose so its not a daft setup at all Some landyachts dont have the layover the layover is a more recent improvement
docheckle
docheckle
15 posts
15 posts
18 May 2013 1:46am
thankyou for a sensible and informative explanation Hiko, it wasn't me that said they were daft, I just said they were nothing like cars and bikes. now it all makes sense.
greenE
greenE
47 posts
47 posts
20 May 2013 7:26am
erm,wow,i admit it was me that said they looked a daft angle lol,they just look to me that one good bump and the headstock or forks will snap or bend to me. (with some rough terrain) and yes i will deffo be making a video if i can get a jump out of her,im sure its got to be do'able?
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
9 Jun 2013 4:06pm
Of course it's doable, been done a zillion times since they were first pictured in the Pyramid hyroglyphs (seriously).
Just be ready for the landing. Friend of mine in the UK landed heavily on Mablethorpe and fractured vertibrae, and was not working some years later.It does depend on how you are sitting, yacht design, ferociousness of the landing etc etc. You have been warned!
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
9 Jun 2013 9:27pm
kiwi is right,even with good suspension, a good knock can transfer through the yacht to you . Ive only seen 2 bad accidents in over 30 year ,all ankles, the third was a lucky miss where the steering pedals collapsed on impact due partially to design and partially rust
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
9 Jun 2013 10:18pm
I am pretty sure I mentioned that I had my lefroy mini airborne somewhere in this thread,

seriously- all joking aside- its not something I want to do again.

It hurt.......lots, and for a long time too [several months]

I was very lucky to get away under my own steam.

It was much like being dropped onto concrete- flat on my back.
The landyacht bounced much better than I could ever hope to.

stephen.

greenE
greenE
47 posts
47 posts
9 Jun 2013 10:33pm
ill try and land diferently to you then ;-)
i mean i could fracture my skull just by falling over,i see what your saying but i dont wrap myself in cotton wool and stay at home 'incase'. tips taken lads thanks,but if it feels right ill do it,i used to be a wall of death rider for ken fox's hell riders,i take risks,its what lifes about,nothing ventured,nothing gained,be it an injury or whatever lol. cheers lads ;-)
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