I am still a very green beginner that has been sailing full on for about 3 months. I am using a JP funster 145 and am happily sailing back and forth in the harness but my largest 6.5 mt sail, my 90ish Kg in weight, and the normal prevailing winds are not getting me planing.

Soooo, I am looking at getting and using larger sails than my current 6.5 mt but my longest mast is a RDM Matrix x35 430.

Based on research I have done I am thinking I need sails 7.5-8.5 mt. It also seems I will require a bigger fin than the standard learning 36 on the funster. The JP support guy I emailed recommended a 48cm Fin.

As per usual upgrading items brings along the need for getting other pieces - like I will also need a bigger boom to fit the sails. I am considering a 490 mast is the best option. It seems the market price for 490's is cheaper with SDM than with RDM masts?

My questions are -

- if I get a new SDM 490 (cheaper) will I need a new mast extension to fit it or can I use my RDM extension?
- 490 or 460 mast? Can I stretch my sail range onto a RDM 460 so I can use my RDM extensions (bearing in mind I will be using 2nd hand sails)
- Brand - models I know this is somewhat personal preference rather than exact science - If I end up using a cheaper brand constant curve 490 - what brand / model of secondhand sails would be best? Toughness / Durability are important - I am repairing tears in my overused 6.5 mt sail every other week. OR does it not really matter at this stage?
- Fins - smaller / bigger - style OMG so many choices - I don't sail where there are weeds so that rules them out - I want this board to plane damn it - are there winged fins will that help? - I'll buy anything that works :)

Hey Greg,

I know very little compared to most folks on here, but I think getting a used 460 mast (SDM or RDM- whichever comes up cheap enought) and track down a 7.2 up to say 8 meter freeride sail- no cams, build pretty tough. Basically it seems like you want more grunt at this stage- and some clean, steady wind wouldn't hurt either. Something like this should have you up and running sweetly in about 14 knots up.

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Sails/~afkjb/2012-Neil-Pryde-RssRsrHellcat-77-metre.aspx?search=PPE4JOFi29QV$zvO5peLYQ==

Neil Prydes are a little mast sensitive, but I know where there's a good Neil Pryde 460 STD and 36 cm extension to suit.

PhilSWR said..

Hey Greg,

I know very little compared to most folks on here, but I think getting a used 460 mast (SDM or RDM- whichever comes up cheap enought) and track down a 7.2 up to say 8 meter freeride sail- no cams, build pretty tough. Basically it seems like you want more grunt at this stage- and some clean, steady wind wouldn't hurt either. Something like this should have you up and running sweetly in about 14 knots up.

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Sails/~afkjb/2012-Neil-Pryde-RssRsrHellcat-77-metre.aspx?search=PPE4JOFi29QV$zvO5peLYQ==

Neil Prydes are a little mast sensitive, but I know where there's a good Neil Pryde 460 STD and 36 cm extension to suit.

Wouldn't be located anywhere near An old convict jail by any chance?

So the general advice has been to get a 460 even though this will limit the max size to about an 8mt sail. I am assuming this would be to make purchasing a RDM mast more affordable and thus to not need a new extension?

I would just worried that I may need something slightly bigger sometimes and would then need to buy a 490 as well. Mind you I have started a diet and exercise regime intended to help me lose weight so this will help reduce the sail size I will need so maybe not so critical.

You are right Phil, it would be good to try out some bigger sails just to see how much more sail area I really need. I wish I could take wednesday off. I am owed some flex / overtime so I'll see but don't hold your breath.

Back to researching masts / sails then I guess

Just to show what is possible, this guy is 87 kg and (I think) is using a 5.3m sail on a board about 100 litres

Hi Greg,
That video is not a guide to the equipment just showing how much effect technique can have.

My philosophy is first, is the person going to be sailing enough to progress enough to benefit from better gear?

If not, then buying bigger gear and keeping the cost down is the way to go.

If you will progress enough, then it would be better to buy a good rig that you will keep using as you progress. The 460 mast falls into that category. I don't think there is much advantage with an RDM versus SDM mast in 460 and above so either should do but you would need to be getting a good SDM cheap so you can buy an extension too.

If you get good sail, mast, boom, extension, then you don't need to change them as you progress, just need to change boards, but you could find that if you bought a really big rig that you might move away from using it because you don't get much advantage from it as your technique improves and it may be too big for the board you need to progress to.

Hi gregob. I had the Funster 145 when I was learning and had the same issue. I raced out and bought a 8.2 sail, but needed a 44 fin to not spin out. As I got a little better over the next couple of months, I upgraded to a free ride board 130 litre and found the 8.2 was too big!

A couple of years on now, with the advantage of hindsight, I should have bought a 7.5 Ezzy and an Ezzy 460 RDM mast. I reckon if you have RDM, stick to it, otherwise you need SDM extensions as well. A 7.5 will get you planing in 15 knots with around a 40cm fin. Practice is the key!

we all go through that phase, windy or not, raining, snowing (maybe not), we go on the water and give it a try...

Keep up it's the only way to improve.

I still have to agree that 8m+ is a bit too big for the moment for you.

you can find 7.0/7.3 m? sails that rig on 4.30, should be plenty enough to get you going.

Wait 'til you're confident and easily planing hooked in and feet in straps to upgrade your kit.

Just keep practising and ask for advice at the beach !!

G'day Greg,
Reading your posts is like re-living my entry to windsurfing! 2 years ago got a 145 Funster with a 5.8, then wanted more sail so got a 7.0 and 460 mast. I am a bit lighter than you though at around 70kg. My 7.0 is a Superfreak which i love, but at your weight you may want something gruntier down low.
My suggestion is to take the advice of the JP guy and get yourself a 48cm fin ASAP and ditch the standard one. Even with the 5.8 sail it transformed the board from a slogger to a planer. Plenty around second hand at the shops. I got a JP freeride 48 from Reg at Windsurfing Perth for under a hundred bucks delivered in a few days.
I don't know much about sails myself yet but do know that the HSM Liquid 7.5 rigs on a 430 (with long extension). From memory, HSM is reasonably compatible with NP masts, but you may need to confirm that with someone more knowledgable than me.
Good luck,
Richard

rande said..

G'day Greg,
Reading your posts is like re-living my entry to windsurfing! 2 years ago got a 145 Funster with a 5.8, then wanted more sail so got a 7.0 and 460 mast. I am a bit lighter than you though at around 70kg. My 7.0 is a Superfreak which i love, but at your weight you may want something gruntier down low.
My suggestion is to take the advice of the JP guy and get yourself a 48cm fin ASAP and ditch the standard one. Even with the 5.8 sail it transformed the board from a slogger to a planer. Plenty around second hand at the shops. I got a JP freeride 48 from Reg at Windsurfing Perth for under a hundred bucks delivered in a few days.
I don't know much about sails myself yet but do know that the HSM Liquid 7.5 rigs on a 430 (with long extension). From memory, HSM is reasonably compatible with NP masts, but you may need to confirm that with someone more knowledgable than me.
Good luck,
Richard

I agree too. I replaced the 30 something fin on my learner board with a 50cm one, and suddenly it went upwind well, got planing earlier, and was faster to boot.

Like most hoons they think power fixes all, Not the case and why most hoons end up crashing up a tree.

FormulaNova said..

rande said..

G'day Greg,
Reading your posts is like re-living my entry to windsurfing! 2 years ago got a 145 Funster with a 5.8, then wanted more sail so got a 7.0 and 460 mast. I am a bit lighter than you though at around 70kg. My 7.0 is a Superfreak which i love, but at your weight you may want something gruntier down low.
My suggestion is to take the advice of the JP guy and get yourself a 48cm fin ASAP and ditch the standard one. Even with the 5.8 sail it transformed the board from a slogger to a planer. Plenty around second hand at the shops. I got a JP freeride 48 from Reg at Windsurfing Perth for under a hundred bucks delivered in a few days.
I don't know much about sails myself yet but do know that the HSM Liquid 7.5 rigs on a 430 (with long extension). From memory, HSM is reasonably compatible with NP masts, but you may need to confirm that with someone more knowledgable than me.
Good luck,
Richard

I agree too. I replaced the 30 something fin on my learner board with a 50cm one, and suddenly it went upwind well, got planing earlier, and was faster to boot.

What kind of board is the 160 you are using

FormulaNova said..

gregob said..

So what I'm hearing is "Don't buy a 490 mast because you will not need it in the long Run. When you get better you use a smaller board in higher winds and use smaller sails".

That makes sense. Maybe I should just look for biggest sail I can rig on my 430 then and be satisfied with that for time being.

Problem is you guys are all wind snobs. I am a wind beggar. For example - there was very little wind predicted on Sunday

- I didn't care I went to local river anyway. There was just a fleeting flee's fart every now and then - I didn't care - I rigged up. The tide was coming in and the 1kn gusts were going in same direction - I didn't care I went out. Yes it picked up a little a bit; I practiced tacks and gybe foot work bit but soon died all together. I had to drag my kit about 500 mts through mangrove mud and over oyster ridden rocks to get back to the car before dark. I am sure I was an amusing site standing on my board going no where to the guys fishing in their tinnies and hitech canoes.

So yeah, I am a bit OCD with my WS learning :)

I disagree with people saying that the technique makes a difference. Sure it will, but without time on the water you won't improve your technique. If people want to plane on a small board with bugger all wind, and only go in one direction, good on 'em. Let them. It's much more fun to be able to rig what you need to get planing and then have fun hooning around.

The dumbest advice I got from my instructor initially was to not get a bigger sail until I was completely comfortable blasting in the straps. I was 95kgs and had a 5.4m sail. What a stupid idea.

Instead I bought a second hand 7.5m and spent the rest of the winter blasting around and learning technique. It's great fun. Who wants to slog when they don't need to.

Now, I have a 8.5m I use on an Ezzy 490 RDM and its good fun. When there's almost no wind I can still plane with the guys lighter than me.

I still remember my first year where there were about 6 or so guys sitting on the fence at the local, whilst I just rigged my 7.5m and 160L board and went sailing. No one told me I wasn't supposed to be able to plane. If you want to be one of those fence sitters, stick with the small gear and learn how to talk instead of sail. If you want to sail and get better, buy a bigger sail (or two!)

What kind of board is that Formula ?

I have also been considering trading the funster for something with a bit more volume for the lighter conditions. I have a SB carve 122 for when the wind gets higher so a larger volume board may also help with light wind planing for me?

jh2703 said..

Here's a vid I found of some gumby, He was 100kg at the time on a 115L board and 5.4 in 15 knots(Max) of wind...With a little technique and the right gear you can get going.

Would that gumby think it was easier or harder to get planing with a smaller board? :)

Gregob - you can get planing on bigger kit than a 6.2m but it's a different sort of planing. It's all apparent wind and you have a huge rig - it's like driving a bus versus a motorbike.

If you want to get better, it's better to face that fact that planing with a sail bigger than 6.2 isn't worth doing.

This isn't to say windsurfing in light winds isn't worth doing, just that planing at all costs isn't worth it.

You have an ideal set up to work on all aspects of rig handling - you can learn all the tricks in light winds and then plane when it is windy.

I'm 85kg and my biggest sail is a 5.5m which I put on a 108litre board. It gets going pretty easily and when it is going, it feels like I want to do things.