You must have a funny kite

if you have your kite in the power zone, with the bar pulled in, it will have a lot more power than if in the same place with the bar extended - therefore back lines loose. - therefore with the kite in the same place and same kite movements, the bar movement from and towards you does adjust the power...

also, if at the edge of the window, and you have the bar pulled in, although this will not help you go upwind, youll get more pull from the kite to keep you planing etc, so again, the chicken look is acting as a power, depower option.

pushing out the bar does always depower the kite, relative to the kite being in the same situation with the bar pulled in.

Its not going to totally depower the kite, but will reduce the power in comparison to having it pulled in...

cool ok I can see where you are coming from. So if you are out in light wind and you pull in on the bar you get more power in all circumstances?

And are you sure about the middle of the window? When you push the bar away aren't you making your kite fly faster. Surely a faster kite will generate as much pull through its forward motion as its lift.

I think what you have just said is what most people think and I am not saying it is wrong just that it has a few holes!

For instance if you are out in light wind it is more beneficial to allow the kite to fly fast and depowered so the sail developes more lift through its increased airspeed. I often tell people who are trying to work power out of their kite to sheet out when the kite is rising and falling during the power stroke and they often ask me why would you sheet out when that is depower.

Can you see the holes in the principal.

So is it always depower out, power in? What about if your kite is flaring or stalling?

I call it sheeting in and out I have the kite fully powered up when it is fully out and I pull it in to over sheet it.
I over sheet ("FLARE" removes the power very fast) if i want to short turn fast. this help in the turn as air hits the flared edge and helps turn the kite
If I want to jump high and glide for a long distance I give the kite some depower from the cleet this is what I beleve is ("powering up" or "depowering" the kite) thus making me have to sheet in the bar in order to have max power again when I jump at the apex I fully sheet out by letting the bar come to rest on the stop knot this relaxs th back line so it is not still trying to rise that lets the kite keep shape for the plane so it glides for a long time well thats what im thinking im doing some time I scratch my nuts it seems to help me
I THINK AVERY ONE KNOWS THIS AS SHEETING BUT AMONST PEOPLE IN THE KNOW IT IS JUST EASY TO SAY POWERING UP OR DEPOWERING THE KITE BY JUST REFERING TO THE BAR AND POWER STRAP AS ONE THING
P.S you could even say take the luff out of your sail lol if you like

Hi Dave,
I see what your getting at and in some cases maybe what you say is true but I wouldn't change any terms. Way I have my setup is full power about an inch or two below the knot and holding it there most of the time with a slight bend in the arms. I like kiting almost always at full power and control speed by the small margin of depower and grinding in my board. So letting out the bar most of the time does depower the kite for sure. However when when I build up too much speed and just can't slow down normally I often pull down on the bar quite a bit and flare the kite to increase drag which slows it down. Sure it flys farther back in the window but I've lost my kite speed. Of course if its just too much then its generally bum brake or crash.
Same for when I do a trick and need to stop the kite (thro lack of control as usual) I pull down on the bar and put the kite brakes on.
Mind you with some old grunty temperamental kites they're gunna do their own thing and the bars just there to cling to.

re: I think not many kiteboarders use their trim strap effectively to tune each kite for the correct arm reach. I see too many people with long chicken loop lines who expect this to help them "depower" their kites! this leads to bad posture and ineffective transmission of power to the legs. It also leads to a sore back! If you are hunched over don't expect to be able to edge hard and depower
not being a monkey armed male, i have had to modify every kite i have owned so i can reach darn bar when riding with fully sheated out. problem will come when i want to ride unhooked.
dont see the use of main loops in four line kites much anymore (i know, a seeming contradiction) but riding fixed especially on light wind days sure ups board skill. anyway, just a thought.

tt

I've just bought a new Guerilla 2 and I'm struggling to work out how to tune it, so this thread is very topical for me. I've definitely found that sheeting out can accelerate me like a rocket. Oversheeting stalls the kite but I do get concerned that it might drag me downwind with great force.

So, thinking out loud ...

I used to do a lot of sailing. If I'm tacking upwind towards a mark, and have the sail oversheeted, then I'm not going to go as fast forward as I would if I sheeted out to the point where the sail starts to luff. Oversheeted I will be pulled sideways moreso than pulled forward. I will heal the boat terribly but won't go anywhere.

Perhaps the analogy should be the same for kites. Sheet out and your kite will accelerate around to the point where it will luff, and by that means you get accelerated too until the kite luffs at the edge of the window. Sheet in and you'll stall the kite which effectively means it doesn't fly fast and so you should surf slower. You may however get pulled a little more downwind but that probably isn't going to be very significant.

I'll try the theory this weekend and let you know if I don't hurt myself.

Graeme

Hi GLS, your theory regarding the kite is basically correct except you left out two critical things
1. Apparent wind which you would be familiar with from sailing.
2. Resistance – the board on water and your legs on the land – the amount of resistance dictates where the kite will be in the window. You know the old help! I’m going to fast – edge the board – force the kite to the edge stuff and visa versa.

Kiting is about the sum of the components not just the kite and not just the board, both need to be controlled to control power and speed.

Thanks Ian sounds right to me. My students have a real problem if you say power and depower so I have removed the terminology from my teaching methods. I have found that my students are flaring and stalling less.

I say push out for more flying speed. Pull in to turn. Otherwise let the bar find its own position with minimal pressure from your hands.

I see too many beginners flaring their kite and crashing backwards.

Next time you are out in upper end conditions with your kite try flaring it and stomping your back foot when you are getting overpowered. Lots of kiters who go away to the races and have the out of control speed slams do so because they are sheeting out without edging which only increases their speed. This keeps happening until you put the back foot down or you lose it completely.

It's just what I do and it seems to work for me : )

I know the principles are sound but I just want to avoid confusing the poor beginners who end up asking the same questions. Sooner or later they figure it out but I thought I would try and shortcut the problem. Avoiding the word depower seems to work and also teaching people how changing the angle of attack using the depower strap can change their arm position and how it can help stop the kite flaring when you wish to ride unhooked.

Thanks all for the replies! I love a healthy discussion!

Dave out.