Im not sure I understand the scenario but from what I think you have said.........I think that if you are upwind of a person and you are both heading in the same direction, the person most upwind should be looking out for the person downwind because you can see them. If its looking a bit close its easy for the person upwind to turn and go the other way. However, as I said Im not sure I have totally understood the situation!!!

I only saw half of the incident so I cant really comment on who was wrong or right. From my understanding of the unwritten laws of kiting, I think that the person upwind (kiter 1) of the other kiter (kiter 2) should either stop and put his/her kite at 12 oclock, keep his kite high, or attempt a turn. Kiter 2 should have his kite low. But it was particularly gusty yesterday so if kites were dropping into the power zone, its no ones fault. Also, if you were overpowered in that situation theres not a lot you can do

I was kiting @ woodies last Friday in quite a strong breeze (20-25knts). I was trying to keep a good distance (30+metres) from most people but what happened a couple of times was that guys upwind and slightly ahead of me would boost extremely high without first looking downwind or behind them and then land within my safety zone. Even worse, one time they didn't stick the landing and their kite came screaming down narrowly missing me. There was maybe a total of 10-12 kiters and it seemed crowded. Can't imagine what it would be like with 20 or more! An accident waiting to happen maybe...

BB,

Upwind kiter gives way to downwind. Same applies if you're heading towards each other - upwind kiter moves his kite up, downwind should lower his.

One observation I have: people never pay enough attention downwind, especially before they jump!

steve

in sailing it is the upwind boat that must keep clear. however we are kitesurfing and not sailing. the upwind BOAT must keep clear because it is the upwind boat that can most easily avoid a collision.
in kitesurfing it is the down wind kite that can most easily avoid a collision because it is easy to bear off down wind but you cant simply tack or stall head to wind especialy if you are over powred!

one thing that realy #@#$%& me off is people rideing just down wind of me. not only is it realy bad because if i stuff up as i have been known to do every now and again (alot) i'm going to go straight down wind and run into them that and if there is someone just down wind of you they are bloking you from jumping and why are they there in the first place??? why not 50m behind you or 50m infront of you???

bb
the secret to avaoiding a collision is the same as using a quick release. its not how fast you can pull your QR its being able to think ahead and seeing the situation before it happens and avoiding the situation and then there will be no collision.

There is only one way to avoid crashes & tangles & that is to go way way way up wind from everyone. I was out yesterday with my 15.5 & I was very much in control but there were blokes kiteing next to each other you only have to slip a edge & you are in trouble & the other poor person has to cop it. Its a bit like going to the supermarket everyone parks on top of you, don't forget we have thousands of miles of coast line here don't be sheep, It won't be long before there is a nasty acident somewhere so give each other a bit of space happy kiteing.

I agree with Damo , kiting is NOT sailing .
A sailing boat can't get blown downwind 20-50m in a split second , therefore it is safe and practicle to have the upwind vessel giveway to the downwind vessel .Main reason being the upwind vessel has more options and controle .
In kiting the DOWNWIND kite has more options and controle .
Personally I don't like strangers jamming in under me iether ,it reduces my safety area and I have to change direction by iether sending the kite over the top (chance of lofting) or down turning it (chance of getting hammered if a gust hits when the kite is in the bottom of the window).
All this adds up to increase of risk .
Safety rules should be about reducing risk , therefore if downwind kiter gives way , risk is reduced .
If the downwind kiter is close to rocks or other obstacle that they are trying to squeeze past , they shouldn't have put themselves in that situation in the first place as it is not safe .
Treat every stranger upwind of you as an absolute beginer and stay right out of thier safety zone , this is practicle and safe .
Live and let live , we need to have the right attitude out there , there are enough onlookers out there with a poor attitude waiting for an excuse to put limitations on us .
PS Beer Bong , if you had stopped in the water with your kite parked above and the other kiter then hit you , I think he is in the wrong . He has more controle because he is moving and needs to give way .

It all sounds too easy but when it comes down to it everyone should be looking all around them. I think places like woodies make it easy to get in peoples way because space really is limited. At woodies most people do tricks comming in towards the beach on that nice shallow section of water. People when kiting woodies should be aware that this is the spot where kiters are going to boost and that they should be ready to give way to upwind kiters. However at other spots where there is heaps of room and heaps of places to boost I think that there should be plenty of room in-between kiters and that upwind kiter shouldn't boost if someone is downwind. If there is room to spread out.....do it! Personally I hate it when people have the urge to overtake me really close.......If Im going slow its because Im trying to stay in control and the last thing I need is someone parking thier kite above mine.(Unless I know them and what they are going to do!) Cant you just go the other way???????

Someone in the association must have a copy of the rules of kiting. That should confirm wether the upwind right-of-way thing is true or not??

I personally would like to believe it......

Needs to be resolved for future reference.

quote:

---

one thing that realy #@#$%& me off is people rideing just down wind of me. not only is it realy bad because if i stuff up as i have been known to do every now and again (alot) i'm going to go straight down wind and run into them that and if there is someone just down wind of you they are bloking you from jumping and why are they there in the first place??? why not 50m behind you or 50m infront of you???

---

What has happend to me @ woodies is I've been coming back in towards the flat water area and some dude slightly upwind of me has seen me coming towards them, transitioned 30m in front of me and then shortly later boosted so high that by the time they are coming in to land I'm sitting almost underneath them!! If they hit me am I in the wrong because I didn't anticipate their intentions and kept 50m away! I don't think so... People should be looking out for each other especially in a confined place like woodies. If you want to boost big time then maybe you should go downwind of the guys who are simply looking to ride fast on flat water.

I definately agree with simon, Kites are a sailing vessel, and should definately abide by the rules of sailing. If it were to go down to a court case they are the rules they would use. If you are kiting around other sailing vessels ie. yachts, sailboards etc, you HAVE TO abide by the sailing rules, because they they are the ones the sailors abide by. I think in a kiting sense however, since you can lose ground downwind so quickly and unexpectedly, you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you could get hurt. You should stay downwind of a yacht or a windsurfer, or a safe distance upwind.

Since we are not racing each other, there is no reason for two kites to be going in the same direction and close enough together to have an accident. If they are, one is in the process of overtaking the other and then the sailing rules should apply, since the overtaking kiter is the one putting himself into danger, whether he overtakes to windward or not. If you do find yourself in a situation like Beer Bong's, and the guy downwind doesn't know, yell to him or something. If you are not out of control, you should move before something goes wrong. The downwind kiter should also have enough awareness to know there is a kiter above him, and should get out of the way before something goes wrong.

Please don't take the rules to too seriously. If a kiter is hurtling toward you from upwind, don't just stay there and shout to him "I HAVE RIGHT OF WAY!!"

I doubt australia's kitesurfing rules would be different from MAUI and the rest of the world.
So still worrying some people kite without knowing them
Before a bad accident and a crap court case happen, better apply theses:

Safe Kiting Guidelines -

KITEBOARDING ROAD RULES

Avoid collisions at all costs.
The upwind kiteboarder gives way to the downwind kiteboarder.
The kiteboarder on port tack gives way to the kiteboarder on starboard tack.

Kiteboarding in waves
The incoming Kiteboarder gives way to the outgoing kiteboarder.
The first kiteboarder to catch a wave, has the wave.
(Where two kiteboarders catch the wave at the same time), the kiteboarder closest to the peak has the wave.
(and when there is no distinct peak), the upwind kiteboarder has the wave.

and also a quite important one:
Give Way to all other users.


Check out
http://www.maui.net/~hotwind/mkarules.html

Sambo, it was my kite you damaged. 3 inch cut through the centre strut and bladder. Don't lose any sleep over it, it's just a kite and you were only trying to help! I don't blame you for paniking, when i saw the kite power up i thought you were a goner!

I think the upwind kiter has a responsibility to keep an eye out for the kiter downwind and keep a safe distance. Remember most downwind kiters dont have eyes in the back of their heads. Just my 2 cents.

As already pointed out, someone downwind has more ability to move out of the way BUT does NOT have eyes in the back of their heads AND it IS International Maritime (not just some sailing) law for upwind to give way. Let's not get to the point where we have to test this in a court. The DPI Marine Operations police maritime law here in WA and already turn a blind eye to the current law for us to wear PFD and abide by the 8 knot speed limit that apply in most Perth metro beaches - if we start having more accidents they WILL start to enforce these EXISTING laws!

We have already had one fatality in WA and unfortunately we will all probably have to become a bit more aware about the law as a result of the impending coronial inquest. One thing is for sure, if we don't all follow the agreed rules, more accidents WILL happen. The whole idea of the rules is so that you have SOME idea of what the other person is likely to do rather than have NO f$#$^&*%#$^ing idea at all! It is everyone's responsibility to avoid accidents - demanding right of way will not prevent accidents either - but rules take a lot of the guess work out of it.

It's great to see this discussion but if you disagree with established rules then the way to change them is not to rant and rave in these forums or to ignore them and do your own thing - join WAKSA, make your views known, get WAKSA to make submissions to AKSA which represent Australia in International forums like IKO, etc and can represent your views to change State and Federal laws if needed. Local rules are NOT the way to go.

IMO, any person who jumps when there is someone downwind of them that could in any way possibly end in a collision is negligent - there is simply NO EXCUSE because YOU made the decision to jump when and where you did! Having said that, any person who rides downwind of people who clearly are trying to boost is not showing much courtesy and is showing a lot of faith that the person upwind is actually responsible and knows what they are doing.

Probably the biggest issue of concern to me is people riding over-powered to the point of OUT-OF-CONTROL. With the wind range of kites on the market today there really isn't any excuse for doing this AND it is bloody dangerous! How many more accidents do we have to have before people realise this?

Lastly, my pet hobby horse :-) Waves are MUCH more than just ramps to boost off! Most people who play in waves both love to ride them as well as boost off them. Although there is still no agreed universal rule across Oz let alone the globe, I think that you will find most serious wave riders will agree with the Maui rules - if you don't, please talk to your local WAKSA committee member (I'm one so hit me :-) Please think twice before you cut in front of someone who is trying to enjoy riding their wave - in most WA breaks you are also on a port tack so you've broke two rules!!! If you don't ride waves - what the hell are you doing there in the first place?


Cheers,
Ian Young
www.flysurf.com.au
0414 716 812