Sore Elbows

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Captain Goodvibes
Captain Goodvibes
WA
92 posts
WA, 92 posts
19 Dec 2003 3:55pm
Hi Folks
anyone out there suffer from Sore elbows (Tennis elbow) from kiting ?? I get insanely painfull elbows if I kite for more than three days in a row . Would like to hear from others who suffer from this and what they are doing about it.
wrex
wrex
86 posts
86 posts
19 Dec 2003 4:43pm
I suffer the "tennis Elbow" every now and then i use a product called "Arnica".
It is a natural plant extract available at most Chemists. Get the Sunspirit brand.
Apply the creme to the elbow Wrap with glad/cling film cover with bandage and go to sleep. Remove excess creme in the morning.
If pain persists see your Family doctor.
I personally use Arnica for sprains and strains it works by drawing the bruising and inflamation out of the affected area.
I'm not into all that Natural stuff but nothing works better in my opinion
Ptussy
Ptussy
WA
86 posts
WA, 86 posts
20 Dec 2003 2:55pm
Applying daisy extract to your elbow at night may help, as will a number of other anti-inflammatory creams (...esp when used during a lunar eclipse ).
Depending on the cause of your problem, strapping (...no, not as in whipping...) may help.
IMOH you may be best trying to determine the cause of the problem (the inflammation) (-apart from the obvious...) For example, does it always happen, is it both arms or just one, does it occur in all conditions, what makes it worse, if you have multiple kites/bars, does it happen with all etc. If not a simple problem with one elbow you might need to consider your riding style/biomechanics for a longer term solution.
jkeys
jkeys
WA
188 posts
WA, 188 posts
21 Dec 2003 10:15am
I HAVE A SOLUTION.
I have had the same sore elbows on and off for the 2 years I have been kiting. Nothing helped apart from less water time until Thursday. I went to Rotto on a christmas work trip and by chance met Canadian Phil, a sports massage guru, he saw me rubbing my sore elbow (I had just kited the previous 3 days)He came over and had a chat. He described the condition as the tendons joining to the bone at the elbow just get enflamed from short , under load, movement,(similar to tennis, Golfers elbow and typers RSI) and all that is needed to fix problem is to strech out short muscles in arm(they are not long enough for this short extreme movement) You do this by standing up against table, placing you hand palm flat on table top , and with straight arm lean towards fingers, a hard and long as you can endure. 5 to 10 minutes at a time) You will strech muscles in wrist lower arm region. (Its painful) He reckoned I should be right in less than 7 days. I did this strech alot for 2 days and my REALLY SORE elbow is now great. Not sore at all. I kited one of these days and the pain never came back. I have had a sore elbow for up to 2 months at a time. He said to exercise the arm regulary or the muscles will again shorten. Try it and tell me how you go. I'll tell Nyall the Irish Doctor Kiter at Cottesloe, and see what he thinks.
Jonathan
Damo
Damo
WA
641 posts
WA, 641 posts
21 Dec 2003 10:57am
i used to have heaps of trubble with my elbows until a mate of mine put me onto voltaran and ice it stoped the pain in about 1/2 an houre and i havnt had it since. take the voltaran and then sit with your elbows in a bucket of ice for as long as you can handdle it and then put them back in again. repeat again the next few times you go out kiteing and before you know it no more pain.
jan
jan
WA
1119 posts
jan jan
WA, 1119 posts
22 Dec 2003 12:19am
firstly, miracles cures are not the solution.

your getting sore elbows from overuse but more importantly overuse in a position/stretch that is not what the muscles your using are intended for.

to solve 95% of your problems try the following

1. adjust your bar, lines, harness etc so that you kite in a comfortable posture without stressing your arms repeatedly.

2. stretch your arms well for at least 10 minutes before and after kiting.... do professional atheletes in other sports stetch and warmup before exercising? don't you think they do this for a reason?

3. kite in your harness loop so turning the bar doesnt mean pulling hard with your arms, use your legs and board to move the kite to the edge of the window rather than sheeting out on the bar

ive had a tonne of elbow probs and most of it has disappeared simply by adjusting my rig so that i kite comfortably.

secondly, theres a lot of useful good stuff around for treating the tennis elbow style of pain... usually its anti inflammatory based. nurofen (sp?) works well for sorting out immediate discomfort... but its probabably not good to take this often and repeatedly.

personally i take some glucotamine tablets (ask your health shop) which are a supplement for the natural lubricants in your joints which have had a massive effect, and use dencorub on my elbows when i need to (any antiinflammatory gel would be fine).

none of this helped anywhere near as much as shortening my chicken loop by about three inches so that pulling the bar in when the bar pressure was at its most occured with my arms in a comfortable position rather than an overextended position (do you find yourself pulling HARD on the bar when your arms are as far away from you as possible? your arms arent designed to do this well, they are much better at pulling when you start with slightly bent elbows, flexing biceps rather than the small muscles).
jan
jan
WA
1119 posts
jan jan
WA, 1119 posts
22 Dec 2003 12:20am
oh and those arm exercises sound like a very good idea, strengthen up the small muscles so they can cope with the stresses your putting them through
Captain Goodvibes
Captain Goodvibes
WA
92 posts
WA, 92 posts
22 Dec 2003 10:11am
Thanks folks for the advice,

I bought on Friday a forearm brace that provides compression and heat and I think its doing the job, I kited for 2 hours with no pain It is supposed to work by stretching the tendons in the forearm and providing warmth to help circulation. This with stretching, massage and a ton of glaucosamine and chondroiton seems to be doing the trick.
niall barrett
niall barrett
WA
248 posts
WA, 248 posts
23 Dec 2003 12:43am
Sore Elbow sufferers

Kiters elbow problems fall into 2 categories, both related to overuse depending on the biomechanical stress.

1.Brachioradialis Tendonitis
The Brachioradialis is a short muscle you can see most visibly in the crux of your elbow if you flex your elbow at 90 degrees, with palm turned down and tenes yor arm. The insertion of this muscle into the humerus[upper arm bone] becomes painfully inflamed from the repeated strain of loaded elbow bending. Your kite design is particularly important, and newer kites tend to need less back line pressure and cause fewer problems [e.g. the new Airrush Lift Pro].Kiting well powered and using a shorter depower loop also helps because you fly more on the depower loop than the bar.
Stretching after every kite helps [best done by attemping to flatten your palm against a wall behind you, fingers pointing in and thumb up, while slowly rolling your body away]. Once started the problem can be hard to settle, so try and prevent it by taking 2 Nurofen at least 20 mins before you go out for a while and stretch after. Do not go out straight away, because they take a little time to kick in and won't work once the pain has started. Once properly settled you can kite without the Nurofen again.For those into herbal; Arnica always gets talked up for muscular injury and may be worth a try [real Arnica herb not homeopathic dilutions]. Glucosamine is generally thought to benefit joints rather than muscles. Deep massage by a qualified sports masseuse may have a benefit similar to stretching.

2. Tennis Elbow [lateral epicondylitis]
This is another common condition and is characterised by pain with gripping rather than elbow bending. The bony prominence on the outside of the elbow is generally tender and painful rather than the having pain in the corner of the elbow as in the previous condition.
The problem is from excessive gripping rather than elbow strain and is cause by injury and pain at the site of origin of the finger/wrist extennsor muscles. Firstly use a narrow diameter ergonomic bar. Kite hooked in without the need to grip so hard. Stretch the area after kiting by bending your wrist fully with the hand in a fist. Rest it. treatment is difficult and hence many varying recommendations are often made. Massage and other physical treatments have shown little benefit in trials, nor does taking anti-inflammatories [Nurofen].This is what I reckon is your best bet. If it persists get your Doctor to write a script for Transiderm Nitro 5mg patch [for angina treatment]. Cut them into quarters and wear 12 hours per day to increase local blood supply [nitrates relax blood vessel to increase flow]. This generally results in healing, if your GP is dubious tell him all the sports physicians now use it, with good results. As a last resort get a cortisone injection, it generally is very effective at curing the pain for 3 months or so, but there is evidence that the problem ultimately takes longer to settle, possibly because it actually slows healing, and I would be loathevto do it for a kiter.

I hope this helps. Dr Niall Barrett

p.s do not e-mail me as I can only offer free advice not solicit business over the net
LouD
LouD
WA
642 posts
WA, 642 posts
23 Dec 2003 1:12pm
Well said Niall

Hope someone saves your entry for further perusal as this "sore elbow" thread seems to come up quite frequently.
Must however disagree with narrow diameter bar and feel that this in fact sometimes aggravates lateral epicondylitis, especially in kiters with larger hands.

one other pertinent point: I find that these shoulder and elbow problems seem often to get worse in underpowered conditions due to excessive pulling on bar to keep speed up. In other words make sure you are reasonably well powered up.

LouD
laurie
laurie
QLD
3902 posts
QLD, 3902 posts
23 Dec 2003 7:40pm
quote:
Originally posted by LouD
Hope someone saves your entry for further perusal as this "sore elbow" thread seems to come up quite frequently.


That someone must be me! (& yes they will be available as a faq)

My 2 cents: Gotta agree with the biomechanics bit. When I started sailing, I didn't relax my arms, and (unknowingly) was sailing with bent arms - taking the whole weight at the elbows - much pain followed! Have someone watch your technique for really obvious errors which you may not know you are doing..bent back, arms etc..

..Laurie
LouD
LouD
WA
642 posts
WA, 642 posts
23 Dec 2003 9:09pm
So right Laurie.

If you are you using a chicken loop , make sure that at full power , your bar is not to close to you, and that at max depower the bar is not to far away from you. You should not feel that your shoulders and elbows are getting stretched, or that the bar is ever very close to you. The only production bar at this stage , as far as I am aware , that you are able to adjust without adding extra hardware to the stock bar are the new Slingshot bars, which have adjustable stoppers on both sides of the depower centre line. Apparently you can adjust these even while sailing.
Really neat idea.

LouD

jungle bunny
jungle bunny
WA
7 posts
WA, 7 posts
26 Dec 2003 4:01pm
When I had this problem I simply shortened my chicken loop so as to ride with my elbows always well bent.... no more more problems, good luck!
ianyoung
ianyoung
WA
649 posts
WA, 649 posts
1 Jan 2004 9:55pm
Funny how none of the people with FlySurfer Warriors and Maniacs with the patented pressureless bar system ever seem to have problems with elbow RSI injuries :-)


Cheers,
Ian Young
www.flysurf.com.au
0414 716 812
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