2081: Universal Absurdity

> 10 years ago
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FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
24 Oct 2012 9:59am
sameh
sameh
WA
310 posts
WA, 310 posts
24 Oct 2012 9:19pm
The ayn rand view of the world, or how the right demonise the notions of fairness and equality. "Atlas shrugged" for the new millennium.
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
25 Oct 2012 12:18pm
The book this movie is based on was written as a parable to the idiocracy of communism. When I went to uni years ago I had a fair few Marxist lecturers. The more I read into Marxism and communism the more I find it both fanciful and horrific. The places where its been tried as way to run a society usually lead to the worst excesses of cruelty and depravity.

One of the worst examples was Kampuchea where they Khmere Rouge were crazy enough to follow Marx's belief that all people are completely equal and anyone can do any job. Any form of specialisation, education or ability possessed by an individual was wiped out.

evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
25 Oct 2012 12:52pm
If you let Capitalism run wild, zero regulation, would you not end up with a monopoly? A single company running the country, effectively it would become the state. Everybody works for it and it owns everything.

...wait a minute. That's communism.
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
25 Oct 2012 1:25pm
evlPanda said...
If you let Capitalism run wild, zero regulation, would you not end up with a monopoly? A single company running the country, effectively it would become the state. Everybody works for it and it owns everything.

...wait a minute. That's communism.


Perhaps but an anarchic capitalism would probably lead not to monopolies. Most monopolies develop because of rules and regulations stopping competitors from entering the market. There could be some exceptions, possibly the example of Eastern States Standard Oil, the Rockafellers or the Bell company that had to be broken up.

Even there I think competition and innovation would break up any monopoly.

A pure capitalist system cannot function unless individual property rights are respected and upheld by the law. Right now we have situations where property rights are not respected, for example miners demanding entry to private property to extract minerals and gas. This is due to apparently the Commonwealth owning all the mineral rights under the soil. It doesn't seem that right to me. If you own the land, you own the land and you should be allowed to decide who or who cannot enter it.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
25 Oct 2012 1:31pm
Most philosophies have Socrates, Plato(communism) and Aristotle (individual freedom) as their base.

I'm of the opine that like gravity, ideas can start to form a metaphorical mass. When small they pose little danger, but as they grow they start to suck in more and more, until either 2 large masses destroy each other or one large mass destroys everything else not letting even "light" escape... in cosmology we have dark matter holding everything steady, does society have the equivalent?
Cambodge
Cambodge
VIC
851 posts
VIC, 851 posts
25 Oct 2012 2:21pm
Quote:

"... in cosmology we have dark matter holding everything steady, does society have the equivalent?"

Yes. It's called fear.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
25 Oct 2012 3:02pm
Mobydisc said...
Even there I think competition and innovation would break up any monopoly.


Like Woolworths/Coles.

sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
25 Oct 2012 12:26pm
Mobydisc said...
This is due to apparently the Commonwealth owning all the mineral rights under the soil.


Not quite- mineral rights are retained by the states- not the commonwealth.

apart from that, I agree with you, if you own the land (ie: a farmer) a mining company should not be able to tell you to move over so they can dig up your farm for minerals, or extract gas/ oil.

stephen
gibberjoe
gibberjoe
SA
956 posts
SA, 956 posts
25 Oct 2012 4:57pm

isn't it that the land users have the lease of the top 400mm for crops and graizing, anything below that is or can be mined for extraction and sale by the highest bidder thru a mining tenament. So what do the original owners own?
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
25 Oct 2012 5:13pm
Land can be disposed of pretty much as the government likes. The state owns it (formerly the Crown) and issues title to it in "fee simple" which is as close as you can come to outright ownership. This was started by King William c 1070. He had his Doomsday book compiled listing all the property in England and said this is all mine but I'll grant you a title to it. It's a clever device that allows people to "own" property and feel free to dispose of it and trade in it much like other commodities but at the same time gives the government the legal authority to override any such ownership. Today the government exercises this authority when they resume property and when they issue mining rights. The conditions that apply to mining rights can be varied as Parliament sees fit within the law to the extent of whatever the voters will bear.
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