FormulaNova said..
On the other hand if you are in a nursing home with lots of other people it would make a lot of sense to get the flu shot..

I've said it before but everyone needs the flu vaccine. If you're under 40 your risk of mortality is higher with the flu.

For those in the US, there are these categories: 1a, 1b, scraps, and cheats
1a: Healthcare personnel and residents of long-term care facilities should be offered the first doses of COVID-19 vaccines
1b: Frontline essential workers such as fire fighters, police officers, corrections officers, food and agricultural workers, United States Postal Service workers, manufacturing workers, grocery store workers, public transit workers, and those who work in the educational sector (teachers, support staff, and daycare workers.)People aged 75 years and older because they are at high risk of hospitalization, illness, and death from COVID-19.
Scraps: when people don't turn up for their vaccination appointment, and there are doses thawed out that will spoil it not used, the vaccinators advertise, "first come first served" via any mechanism (facebook, texts, blogposts). That's how many of our friends (and now some of our family) have got shots.
Cheats: those that assert to be 1a or 1b, and book 1a or 1b appointments.

All four mechanisms move us on the path to herd immunity, hopefully will be there in a few months.

Man says smoking isnt bad for you and dosent cause cancer, dies a month later.......

he got hit by a bus

inglis2021 said..
All the reports to the Vaers database of people becoming sick and dying after taking the shot - all just coincidental.

No mention in the mainstream of the tens of thousands of adverse reaction reports to the database after taking the covid shot.

I'm calling bullsh!t
unless you are calling a headache an adverse reaction?
How many people have died directly from a covid vaccine? (please give data from a recognised data source, not qanon)

Yeh that's not the damning evidence you think it is.

All reports of suspected adverse reactions with fatal outcome following vaccination are carefully assessed.Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency says - The reports suggest that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, such as fever and nausea, may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,The large studies on Comirnaty (BioNTec/Pfizer) did not include patients with unstable or acute illness - and included few participants over 85 years of age. In Norway we are now vaccinating the elderly and people in nursing homes with serious underlying diseases, therefore it is expected that deaths close to the time vaccination may occur. In Norway, an average of 400 people die each week in nursing homes and long-term care facilities.

CH3MTR4IL5 said..
Yeh that's not the damning evidence you think it is.

All reports of suspected adverse reactions with fatal outcome following vaccination are carefully assessed.Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency says - The reports suggest that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, such as fever and nausea, may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,The large studies on Comirnaty (BioNTec/Pfizer) did not include patients with unstable or acute illness - and included few participants over 85 years of age. In Norway we are now vaccinating the elderly and people in nursing homes with serious underlying diseases, therefore it is expected that deaths close to the time vaccination may occur. In Norway, an average of 400 people die each week in nursing homes and long-term care facilities.

If "receiving a vaccine and dying from the side effects" is outside your standard for dying of a vaccination (the question I responded to), then I'd be interested to know what your criteria for dying of a vaccination would actually be then...?

400 a week on average, eh? Wow.

and to answer your question Poida, out of 130 million vaccinations no deaths have been directly attributed to the vaccination.

m.dw.com/en/fact-check-no-links-found-between-vaccination-and-deaths/a-56458746

There will always be some attrition in any vaccination either from an individuals particular biology and / or other contributing factors the person already has.
but to pull out a few so called deaths, even if true, and try to make a statistical case for the vaccines danger is just Tim foil hat stupidity. Be better.

eppo said..
There will always be some attrition in any vaccination either from an individuals particular biology and / or other contributing factors the person already has.
but to pull out a few so called deaths, even if true, and try to make a statistical case for the vaccines danger is just Tim foil hat stupidity. Be better.

Who's doing that? Someone asked if there were any deaths associated with the vaccines... It seems like there has been, within as you say the statistical bounds of individuals having negative reactions -- as happens with all ultimately life-saving medication.

Claims of zero fatalities and word games about the deaths undermines confidence in leadership and the message. That lesson should already have been learned by this stage in the pandemic. Pretending there isn't a risk *at all* just plays into the hands of the antivaxxers.

You're right -- let's be better. Let's start telling the truth, presenting the facts as we know them and addressing risks in a scientific manner.

www.smh.com.au/national/doctors-healthcare-workers-to-be-punished-for-anti-vax-covid-claims-20210310-p579dk.html

inglis2021 said..
A blatant breach of free speech - shocking.

How so? " released a joint directive warning healthcare practitioners that they risk regulatory action if they spout false or deceptive misinformation to patients or on social media "

Kamikuza said..

Known side effects of the vaccine 'contributing to sick old people dying isn't the same as "dying from the vaccine side effects"'
You might want to rethink that...

Opens a bit of a can worms there

So what would a death *directly* related to a vaccine look like?

Ok, can of worms opened...

eg 1, you get the Pfizer vaccine, turns out you are severely allergic to polyethylene glycol and go into anaphylactic shock, despite best efforts of the medical team you suffocate and die = death directly related to the vaccine (none so far).

eg 2, you are healthy with no pre-existing conditions, you get the vaccine, then die with no other reasonable explanation = death directly related to the vaccine (maybe 1, see www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html ).

eg 3, you have a pre-existing heart condition and pneumonia, you get the vaccine, get a fever, pneumonia worsens and you die of a heart attack = death indirectly related to the vaccine (maybe some cases but not that clear. If lots of people are getting vaccinated and the vaccination caused deaths, then you would see an uptick in all cause mortality. If more people aren't dying then usual then the vaccine isn't causing more deaths, which was the WHO conclusion for the Norwegian/UK cases: www.who.int/news/item/22-01-2021-gacvs-review-deaths-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-bnt162b2, and the CDC's conclusion from the reports they received www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7008e3.htm?s_cid=mm7008e3_w )

eg 3 is a tradeoff of the risk of getting covid (which will almost certainly kill you if the minor side effects of the vaccine do) against the risks of the vaccine. if you're old and frail then that minor stress might kill you. but that shouldn't be conflated with "vaccination deaths".

Genuinely, not trying to be one-sided about this, I can't find any evidence of deaths directly related to covid vaccines. Our world in data has 319.6 million vaccines administered to date. If it killed people in even fractional percentage amounts, it would be noticeable. I agree with your point that spouting 'zero deaths' sounds unlikely, but the evidence really points that way, including for old people (quote below from link above).

VAERS received 113 reports of death after COVID-19 vaccinations; two thirds of these deaths occurred among LTCF residents. All-cause mortality is high in LTCF populations because underlying medical conditions are common. Based on expected rates of background mortality, among the approximately 1 million LTCF residents vaccinated in the first month of the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program, approximately 7,000 coincidental, temporally associated deaths from all causes would be expected during the analytic period (7). In contrast, VAERS received 78 reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination in LTCF residents, and approximately one half were in residents who were in hospice or who had a do-not-resuscitate status. Reported causes of death in LTCF residents after COVID-19 vaccination are consistent with expected all-cause mortality in this population. Among deaths in persons with available death certificate and autopsy information who were not LTCF residents, causes of death were consistent with background all-cause mortality and did not indicate any unexpected pattern that might suggest a causal relationship with vaccination.

Its a experimental vaccine authorized for emergency use only.


Covid-19 Vaccine Side Effects World Map - HPV-VACCINE-SIDE-EFFECTS (hpv-vaccine-side-effects.com)

inglis2021 said..
Its a experimental vaccine authorized for emergency use only.

no, it's not.

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

inglis2021 said..
Its a experimental vaccine authorized for emergency use only.

no, it's not.

Oh come on, in a conspiracy theorists mind it is

Experimental... well I don't know what that means, but its new and I never much liked science, so it must be experimental.

Emergency use only... well it was created for this emergency, so the word 'emergency' is in there, so it must be for emergency use only.

All you need to do is skew your perspective. If you start from the basis that the government want to poison us and then work backwards, it all fits into place If you start to analyze people's names and the devil then you have gone too far though.