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Australia Bushfires - man made disaster?

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Created by Macroscien Wednesday, 4 Dec 2019
Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Wednesday , 4 Dec 2019 6:30PM
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I come wthi following thesis: Extensive bushfires in New South Wales are significantly worsen by Murray-Darling Basin water buy back project. For 12 billion taxpayers dollars we made bushfires crisis even worse then was before.
1,500 gigalitre of water that supposed to be used for irrigation now is directed into river and speed up to the sea ASAP.
This water supposed to stay on the dry land, marriage and sustain greenery, Party evaporated will increase general humidity. One day new research will be done to show how catastrophic was political buy back water decision.
Scientific advisors that provide this backup to political finanse scam should be fires for dishonesty while producing false report, drawing wrong conclusion as to the river and biosphere health at NSW.

Instead of irrigating those plains politicians drain not only surface reservoirs of groundwater, low humidity to catastrophic level but drain government coffers, taxpayers money for a gain of few that made millions of profit on so called water rights.

www.agriculture.gov.au/water/markets/commonwealth-water-mdb


www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/unprecedented-bushfires-in-nsw-prompt-call-for-more-firefighters-20191204-p53guj.html


Australia is already the driest continent on Earth. How on hell politician/ government comes with idea to make this land even dryer ? !


sun fisher
NSW, 14 posts
Wednesday , 4 Dec 2019 10:26PM
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I'm not sure if the murray darling irrigation scheme has anything to do with it.
For a start the fires are mostly on the east coast. And scientists have been forecasting potential hot dry conditions for months due to a change in the upper atmosphere over Antartica.
I think the main direct human influence is the government cutting 35% of the fire fighters budget...

Rails
QLD, 1169 posts
Thursday , 5 Dec 2019 6:07AM
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Irrigation water goes to crops, rice, avocado, citrus etc...
Fires are usual in Australia but need to be lit more often to keep the fuel load down, mosaic burns when it is cool and the right season.

Problem is people have moved into the bush and don't know how to burn it, or aren't allowed.

Those that do know don't have the resources because those at the top are afraid of the liability that comes with controlled burns and don't see the value.

Outside of hazard reduction burns in asset protection zones, usually to reduce liability where private property borders State land, very little gets done. The parkies will spark something up every now and then but get so much criticism and so little funding that they can't keep up with the fuel load.

Typical policy failure due to lack of holistic ecosystem understanding and a cost benefit analysis with diffuse economic benefits.

We could fix it but it is cheaper to reactively deal with the harms than to act proactively to reduce the risk of harm.

Thank god for the volunteers, maybe time to let them light a few fires as well.

TonyAbbott
296 posts
Thursday , 5 Dec 2019 4:53AM
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No one is allowed to ask why or consider alternative theories.

100's of years ago we would have blamed God

Now, because we have moved past enlightenment, we replace God with 'global warming'

Any other thought is considered heresy, this is science.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Thursday , 5 Dec 2019 9:01AM
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We keep blaming "global warming" now holes over arctic air - things beyond our direct control.But there are things that we could do instantly:
-irrigate and water the fields in NSW
This is how the land looks when you take care and water regularly :



as oppose to land neglected




If government is asking now farmers to left the land unattended and pay them for doing nothing to their land - ( water buy back project) result is devastating.The truth is that properly maintained , irrigated corn fields do not burn as easy as abandoned bush.












There is additional value in this. Australia is forced to give their natural resources for free of royalty/ taxes, revenue.We export our natural gas worth 50 bln dollars annually and have 80 mln paid only. So at least nobody would expect our farmers to sell now food to overseas buyers for free.
So our consideration / advice could be: Replace disaster water buy back projects with properly planed irrigation and returning this precious water where it belongs - to the land , not to the sea.If we could replace those neglected bushes with prosperous corn fields , we may not need as much fire fighting equipment and human resources.
Corn field also pay by them self and hungry China is waiting for our food too. Lets better to produce food here and send Chinese to their own county before hunger do force them to come here and grab the land. This is win- win. Australians could produce food and should be allowed to do so, not only americans farmers may feed the world now.
Beside our food resources are fully renewable- but minerals you could did and send only once.

boofta
NSW, 142 posts
Friday , 6 Dec 2019 9:13AM
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The actual cause of the bushfires
Greenies banning burning off
Teenage hooligans and morons lighting fires for fun
The answer is burn the greenies and whip the morons and teenagers lighting fires

Foghorn
WA, 388 posts
Friday , 6 Dec 2019 6:33AM
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Cars don't have ashtrays anymore
So the morons butts go out the window.When you see this practice at night its amazing how much they flare up as they hit the ground.

jn1
SA, 1799 posts
Friday , 6 Dec 2019 9:30PM
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Foghorn said..
Cars don't have ashtrays anymore
So the morons butts go out the window.When you see this practice at night its amazing how much they flare up as they hit the ground.


Here Here. I've had to stop in my car and put out 2 fires in the past use to f/wit smokers who don't think.

Chris249
290 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 4:21AM
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Macro, you have one of the biggest egos of anyone I have come in contact with, and sadly you also have vicious contempt for others.

Maybe you you should stop worshipping yourself and saying how you know more than anyone else about everything, which is in fact what you are doing, and try to respect others and their knowledge. Oh, and learn some basics about irrigation

Chris249
290 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 4:23AM
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boofta said..
The actual cause of the bushfires
Greenies banning burning off
Teenage hooligans and morons lighting fires for fun
The answer is burn the greenies and whip the morons and teenagers lighting fires



Really? So you know more about the fires around my place, for example, than the local farmers and RFS?

Much of the stuff burning in NSW will not normally burn so hazard reduction is extremely difficult or impossible. Much of it will never recover from a fire. And much of it has burned revently, about six years ago, and regenerated.

Do the maths on hazard reduction burning. Work out how much manpower it takes to do and when it is practical and then learn something

monaro
QLD, 82 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 7:36AM
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Chris249 said..
Macro, you have one of the biggest egos of anyone I have come in contact with, and sadly you also have vicious contempt for others.

Maybe you you should stop worshipping yourself and saying how you know more than anyone else about everything, which is in fact what you are doing, and try to respect others and their knowledge. Oh, and learn some basics about irrigation


Wtf,
Have you ever met the man in person,face to face, instead of in front of your key board and screen.
You may have a different point of view.

FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 9:31AM
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monaro said..

Chris249 said..
Macro, you have one of the biggest egos of anyone I have come in contact with, and sadly you also have vicious contempt for others.

Maybe you you should stop worshipping yourself and saying how you know more than anyone else about everything, which is in fact what you are doing, and try to respect others and their knowledge. Oh, and learn some basics about irrigation



Wtf,
Have you ever met the man in person,face to face, instead of in front of your key board and screen.
You may have a different point of view.


I agree. Its hard to size someone up when all you have is their ponderings on a forum. Most people I have met outside of seabreeze have been pretty good, but normally all we have are what they say on seabreeze to make assumptions about them.

I am sure if I met Macroscien in real life we would get involved in conversations about all sorts of technical and mechanical stuff, but I can see how Chris has the viewpoint he has. Macro comes across that way in that he is off thinking about something and ignoring a lot, which you can take a few ways. It might be arrogance, it might be naivety, it might just be the way he thinks things out.

I think Macro might have pushed Chris' buttons because Chris has some obvious interest and knowledge in science and Macro is just ignoring a lot of points and being optimistic about his own solutions.

Mehhh, its interesting conversation at least, as at least Macro comes back with responses and not just youtube videos.

FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 9:35AM
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Chris249 said..
Do the maths on hazard reduction burning. Work out how much manpower it takes to do and when it is practical and then learn something


Actually I was thinking this through the other day. Why don't 'they' just vacuum up forest leaf litter and remove a lot of the fuel that is obviously a problem... well I imagine its a big job. A huge job. Imagine someone having to scour all these areas to try this, versus back burning which is already labour intensive. Its all good thinking its like your backyard, but its not. The area is huge and no doubt with difficult terrain,

How about we turn the whole country into market gardens, that will solve the problem... Except for the lack of water though, that might be a little bit of an issue..

monaro
QLD, 82 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 9:01AM
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FormulaNova said..

monaro said..


Chris249 said..
Macro, you have one of the biggest egos of anyone I have come in contact with, and sadly you also have vicious contempt for others.

Maybe you you should stop worshipping yourself and saying how you know more than anyone else about everything, which is in fact what you are doing, and try to respect others and their knowledge. Oh, and learn some basics about irrigation




Wtf,
Have you ever met the man in person,face to face, instead of in front of your key board and screen.
You may have a different point of view.



I agree. Its hard to size someone up when all you have is their ponderings on a forum. Most people I have met outside of seabreeze have been pretty good, but normally all we have are what they say on seabreeze to make assumptions about them.

I am sure if I met Macroscien in real life we would get involved in conversations about all sorts of technical and mechanical stuff, but I can see how Chris has the viewpoint he has. Macro comes across that way in that he is off thinking about something and ignoring a lot, which you can take a few ways. It might be arrogance, it might be naivety, it might just be the way he thinks things out.

I think Macro might have pushed Chris' buttons because Chris has some obvious interest and knowledge in science and Macro is just ignoring a lot of points and being optimistic about his own solutions.

Mehhh, its interesting conversation at least, as at least Macro comes back with responses and not just youtube videos.


I agree,
lots lost in translation and interpretation on the net.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 10:09AM
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Chris249 said..


Do the maths on hazard reduction burning. Work out how much manpower it takes to do and when it is practical and then learn something



At least we could agree on something. Looking at my farm example I could not imagine how you could do effective burning off in hilly , bushy environment , clean everything withing one family generation on 600 acres plot.At humidity hitting 5% and temperatures above 40 Celcius everything could burn if have a chance.We could not physically remove all flammable material - mean - mostly trees and bushes.But I am surprised how nature could care about itself if left alone.I could see hundreds of trees stiken by lighting bolts , but somehow none of those actually turned in to fire. Single smoldered black trunk and vegetation around completely unaffected.So possible solutions for Australia:
1. Splitting large parcels into 1-10 ha plots where every family ( most likely Chinese ) could turn the land into rice plot
or.
2. Rise humidity in country by planned irrigation, humidification and water retention inland instead of draining land dry
3.Converting nation into seasonal firefighters and massive investment in firefighting equipment.
Well, Chris. You are complaining that I do come with solution proposals or ideas. Should we rather sit and pray to gods? complain on merciless nature? Do more conferences? Take a selfie at bushfires and send on FB so others could pity on your life and lost possessions?
As we could see the problems that effect countries could be resolved when general scale is proportional.
Green energy becomes effective when instead of single roof panels half of the country is switching to renewable resources.
BTW. It doesn't work this way that I do now propose something and whole country join, jump in.
We had discussion here about NBN fibre optic drawn to every single dwelling in Australia for near hundred of billion dollars at taxpayers expense. If we spend this money wisely farmers could enjoy now more firefighting helicopters and watch the same porn video feeded wirelessly by 5G.
It isn't the case the Chinese suddenly read my post on SB few years back and come with 100 GBs wireless technology.Things like I talk about will do happen in Australia regardless; big irrigation projects, firefighting drones, increased population density at outback country in expense of densely populated cities. Not because I said so but because it makes perfect logical sense.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 10:30AM
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Initial topic was about Murray Darling water.It seems somebody is reading our SB or our telepathy works and inflict changes in governing bodies? Or just again pure logic wins ?
www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-04/murray-darling-basin-plan-littleproud-says-no-water-promised/11764372

Welll, here are dry facts.
Now we could try to dispute those facts. In the hope to change something we could ask to change those graphs , photoshop or something and situation should improve.
or we could make plans and adjust accordingly, prepare and fight back.


Yep , when the big water comes we will be talking about next natural catastrophe and how to send this water back to ocean ASAP.

Same year, two different disasters ?








FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 11:57AM
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Macroscien said..
It isn't the case the Chinese suddenly read my post on SB few years back and come with 100 GBs wireless technology.Things like I talk about will do happen in Australia regardless; big irrigation projects, firefighting drones, increased population density at outback country in expense of densely populated cities. Not because I said so but because it makes perfect logical sense.


I think this is where you take leaps too far.

A lot of these ideas are not feasible, and do not make perfect logical sense. It is the change of some of these ideas, and the filtering out that ends up with some ideas, but not always the ones you think of.

You keep on bringing up 5G as the answer to the NBN. I am currently staying in a place, in a busyish suburb, where my Telstra mobile does not work reliably. Calls drop out, or even come through, and in order to have broadband I have a 4G modem hooked up to an external antenna. If I had NBN connected to the house, it would be a no brainer. Why has this place got poor coverage? I don't know, but I suspect its the geography and is blocked somehow.

NBN did not need to be and does not need to be an excuse to build other worthwhile projects. If you believe people that are saying it means you can't get better infrastructure in other areas you are being mislead. It is ultimately meant to be self funding, so don't keep using it as an excuse for the government not doing things.

It will take a lot, a really big change, in order to get to governments to commit to projects that are not profitable, and in this case, not directly affecting the majority of the voting population.

Witness desalination plants. There was lots of opposition to these, and in Sydney at least the politics around it were incredible, and it was just bad luck that when they built it after a prolonged drought, that the rains came. Now, that same infrastructure is worth its weight in gold as we enter another dry spell. There will still be thousands of people out there crying about the 'waste' spent on these plants, so how do you expect the government to build clever ideas that don't turn a profit?

FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 12:00PM
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Macroscien said..

Yep , when the big water comes we will be talking about next natural catastrophe and how to send this water back to ocean ASAP.

Same year, two different disasters ?










Like your comparison of a nice green suburban block with a desolate dry sandy block in the middle of nowhere, this argument is disingenuous.

Saying 'there is lots of water there when it floods' and then 'we could use that water at this other place' is not helping anyone at all unless you can come up with a successful way of doing it. It gets brought up every now and then about the tropical north being flooded in most wet seasons, and that we should use the water down south where its dry. Then someone looks at the cost to pump that water, and suddenly the idea becomes worthless.

Why do you never look at the negatives to these ideas and assume all the positives?

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 11:05AM
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I lkie specifically this part. You call this anomaly?

So we did hire experts, did research and state the FACTS. Now those FACTS do not fit our expectation so we call those facts FAKE ( or more politely PC anomaly) .
Suppose that you are physic scientist and comes with ingenious idea, formula. The problem is the formula doesn't actually explain or predict anything that do happen in real world. So you demand and claim your Nobel anyway and blame the world that doesn't fit your predictions?

Now politicians have good excuse. Global Warming Changing Climate Cooling is at fault. Anomaly did cause that not me while governing this nation or region. We stick to my plan in hope nature now will respect and adjust to our bylaw?

Yep, we spend few billions here on after flooding restoration then another several on rebuild after fire.Chinese spent / waste money on stupid damm ! that regulate /retain water and make electricity for free?





What a waste, They should give us the money and we could give them bottles water from Murray river and send electricity in eco friendly hydrogen derived from our coal.

Unfortunately there is nothing we could do about what Chinese do at their own country.But at least we could now object to what Chinese are doing in Afrika. Here is site where you could DONATE YOUR MONEY to fight against Chinese investing in infrastructure in poor Afrika.

www.internationalrivers.org/campaigns/chinese-dams-in-africa

One day we could also send our australian submarines and F35 fighter planes ( that cost us few hundred billions) to Africa and restore natural beauty by demolishing those awful dams.


What a waste good money one may ask! For those 450 millions of dollars we could buy a half of our stealth australian submarine to ensure world live in peace. If not we could sink them all to hell.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 11:43AM
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FormulaNova said..



5G as the answer to the NBN.



1.5G is totally funded by telecommunication companies on their own without taxpayers money, At least could be because Australia refused to build Chinese made 5G station and there is nothing alternative so far.
2.Elon and this SpaceX could give you the same or even more at no cost to taxpayers too with Starlink fleet of 12,000 satellites.
For mere 425 mln you could hang on your own 60 satellites over your private home.




FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 1:30PM
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Macroscien said..



FormulaNova said..



5G as the answer to the NBN.



1.5G is totally funded by telecommunication companies on their own without taxpayers money, At least could be because Australia refused to build Chinese made 5G station and there is nothing alternative so far.
2.Elon and this SpaceX could give you the same or even more at no cost to taxpayers too with Starlink fleet of 12,000 satellites.
For mere 425 mln you could hang on your own 60 satellites over your private home.



Answering the second part first, it sounds like all you need is a Paypal billionaire to fund these things and risk their money. Okay, go for it. If they work we all win, if they don't he loses. I like that.

Now the second part. I have mentioned this before, but years ago I worked at Optus and during that time Telstra was complaining about the huge costs to maintain Australia's public payphone system. The government pays carriers to supply and support this network. They tender for this from the government. Telstra were trying to get the government to pay more for this service so they started making comments in the media. Optus then submitted a competitive tender, and Telstra went quiet, but kept the business. Why? Telstra use the same infrastructure, the same cable runs, the same pits, to use in their other areas of business.

Now, in the telco world, cable runs are the expensive part of infrastructure. Putting fiber in the ground is not cheap, and often requires a lot of work with local councils and other utility companies.

Implement NBN in the Australian market, and what do you know, you now have fiber access to a lot of places that you didn't before, and fiber access that has been built by NBN Co where they didn't need to do a cost benefit analysis before. I have seen instances of this situation in Optus before where a fiber build to a large company office will not be done because it is too costly and there is only one business that wants to pay for it. Sometimes they do, but the cost can be in the order of tens or hundreds of thousands.

Now, you turn around and deploy 5G which has small cell sizes and requires lots of fiber access to lots of places. Where do you think they can get a lot of that fiber access from?

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 12:47PM
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FormulaNova said..





Now the second part.






At my site at Gold Coast there are 11 houses on this acrorage street in the middle of city,
Crew of several people dig fiber cables for a few weeks everyday. ( Damaged my water line BTW and flood the street with my water by puling my water pipe behind my meter) .Anyway I don't know a single person that joined this fiber crazy deal as everybody is happy with ADSL.On another hand power company replaced all power poles on similar power wooden poles in whole neighborhood.One may ask the question why they could not bury power lines in the middle of modern city underground but keep hanging as underdeveloped countries do?


Maybe to demonstrate to foreign visitors that we are developed country and have power supplied to homes already ?

My next idea touch this topic of long distance DC power lines. Could we build power line as long as Australia is wide? To supply power from one corner to another when sun is shinning in one place and not yet in another ?Or wind is blowing at Perth , Adelaide but people are power hungry in Sydney? No way , politician would say. Australia is too big to build a single power line across or rail road . Full stop.

reneweconomy.com.au/ac-dc-unheralded-debate-australias-future-grid-93894/

But we could wait again for somebody build for us.

So cable could be lay down on the ocean floor but not at my street or Melbourne to Perth?

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 2:21PM
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Chris249 said..
Macro, you have one of the biggest eggs of anyone




First rule of kindergarten fight club says:
1. If you could not fight logical arguments hit the opponent hard where it hurts the most.
The recent most successful in this tactic was cave diver then did try ( suggested at least) to insert submarine into Mr Musk as**.He get lost at the end.



try some graphiti for a change Chris




FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 3:23PM
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Macroscien said..
So cable could be lay down on the ocean floor but not at my street or Melbourne to Perth?


Tell me, which do you think is easier to lay? 100kms of undersea cable or 100kms of high voltage DC cable across land?

You keep on ignoring the realities of things and glossing over the negatives of your own ideas. If you could resolve those, you might be able to come up with some world changing ideas.

Do you think its cheaper to lay power lines underground than string it from poles? At least with new estates they tend to run them underground, but probably because new buyers prefer that, and when they build from scratch, no doubt its cheaper than if you come along afterwards with all the other things in the way.

My brother was telling me that an area he was working on where they moved the power lines underground because of the electrification of the rail line nearby ended up in local residents arguing that they 'needed it too', so someone paid lots more money to do this. Its not free.

I would welcome a long distance HV DC line across the nullarbor, but no doubt its expensive. That is a long distance with very little in the way of infrastructure and with HV DC you are not powering things along the way, you are only feeding in power or taking out power at each end. someone would have to stand up and say 'this is infrastructure that will help Australia', but people like you and your feelings on the NBN will stand up every week and say 'why do we need this waste, as I have solar cells on my roof and I'm okay'.

FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 3:25PM
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Macroscien said..
Chris249 said..
Macro, you have one of the biggest eggs of anyone



First rule of kindergarten fight club says:
1. If you could not fight logical arguments hit the opponent hard where it hurts the most.
The recent most successful in this tactic was cave diver then did try ( suggested at least) to insert submarine into Mr Musk as**.He get lost at the end.






Second rule of kindergarten fight club seems to say:
Promote my own ideas and ignore the negatives, and don't evaluate any criticism of them.


(You are now criticising Chris for making personal comments about you, by making personal comments? You need to get your ego out of the way and look at these things logically instead of ignoring criticisms.)

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 2:28PM
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FormulaNova said..




Macroscien said..
So cable could be lay down on the ocean floor but not at my street or Melbourne to Perth?






Tell me, which do you think is easier to lay? 1





Remember what did Kennedy said?" We are going to the Moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard"
Lets do it because it make sense, even if it is hard, I would say to our Aussie mates. Do that cable maybe not to Mars but Perth at least!


FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 3:32PM
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Macroscien said..
FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..
So cable could be lay down on the ocean floor but not at my street or Melbourne to Perth?



Tell me, which do you think is easier to lay? 1


Remember what did Kennedy said?" We are going to the Moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard"
Lets do it because it make sense, even if it is hard, I would say our Aussie mates. Do that cable maybe to Mars but Perth at least!


..but you have just turned around and said the NBN is rubbish. A good piece of infrastructure and you are rubbishing it because there are now alternatives to it. Well, unlikley alternatives to it, but you never seem to read that, or even accept that there are negatives to it.

Some guy called 'Macrogrein' will come along and say that the DC power cable is unneeded and killing koalas and he could do better because he just bought some solar panels from Jaycar and doesn't understand why people in Perth can't do that as well.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 2:34PM
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FormulaNova said..




and the third law of fight club states:
3. Don't waste your energy if you could not win ( at the end) smearing this s** t on SB walls looks like violation of this third law ( chris)( as I could enjoy some rational arguments with others and don't afraid be hit hard and loose sometimes)

FormulaNova
NSW, 9658 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 3:38PM
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Macroscien said..


FormulaNova said..




and the third law of fight club states:
3. Don't waste your energy if you could not win ( at the end) smearing this s** t on SB walls looks like violation of this third law ( chris)( as I could enjoy some rational arguments with others and don't afraid be hit hard and loose sometimes)


Sure sounds like you don't like to argue your ideas and you are taking your bat and ball and going home. Sometimes people know more than us on different topics. You can listen to them and learn, or go home with a tear in your eye and ignore them.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 2:41PM
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FormulaNova said..



DC power cable is needed but killing koalas




that is way we need to dig this cable deep into the ground, not to hang on the trees as usual.Beside I believe we have the best diggers in the world (?)
If you are hindu by any chance and believe in reincarnation, that could be it. Fourth incarnation could dig into Australian soil for a change.

Macroscien
QLD, 4823 posts
Saturday , 7 Dec 2019 2:53PM
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FormulaNova said..



Sure sounds like you don't like to argue your ideas



Every scientist would love to agree to make mistake or wrong prediction.Imagine that you are astronomer and predicting that this time the biggest asteroid will hit Earth next year and kill everybody and everything.Would he will be happy two years later to say: "You see I was right! Give my my Nobel now! "or quantum physicist that draw formula for CERN to create Black Hole that will suck in everything and everybody?



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Australia Bushfires - man made disaster?" started by Macroscien