Carbon kevlar

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pole boy
pole boy
WA
292 posts
WA, 292 posts
14 Oct 2004 7:27am
has anyone tried the carbon mat cloth with the kevlar woven through it. it looks kind of impressive though it is fairly rigid dry and was thinking it might be hard to work with. Has anyone got any experience with this stuff? it's also about $90 a metre so it isn't really fool around with stuff.
poley
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Life is but a dream, from which we all must wake.
KAOS69
KAOS69
WA
1012 posts
WA, 1012 posts
14 Oct 2004 12:15pm
yeh it shore looks impressive , the carbon is o.k but the kevlar is most definaterly a problem first you wont be able to cut it with out electric cutters and than you wont be able to sand it. it frays up like wool and the only way to stop it is to cover with more glass or carbon it is very heavy and unless it is prestreched it has no real benerfit execpt on the bottom of boats or surf ski it is more trouble than it is worth and it is not cheap you can get a carbon fiberglass blend that works well but if you are making a sail board just go for the old glass and carbon you can not go wrong
bluejuice
bluejuice
WA
334 posts
WA, 334 posts
14 Oct 2004 3:48pm
Ditto what Kaos said Kevlar/Dyneema/Aramid great for bullet proof vests, it has good izod impact resistance. Meaning that it gives but resists breaking. It's worse than plain glass in compression and when you flat land a jump the bottom of the board gets a lot of compression!

According to Don Stackhouse of Aerotech, the following is the case:

"The situation for Kevlar in compression is a bit different. The Kevlar molecule actually buckles under compressive load, so although its compressive stiffness is high, its compressive strength is low (only about 40% of the strength of ordinary "E" type fiberglass). Initially the Kevlar fibers carry the load, but when the molecules buckle, that load is shifted to the epoxy, which then crumbles. The Kevlar molecules retain almost all of their tensile strength after failing in compression, so once again the structure turns into a rope, at a load somewhat higher than pure epoxy".



a.k.a. KA202
hoop
hoop
1979 posts
1979 posts
14 Oct 2004 5:41pm
Yeah kevlar is a pain in the arse don't bother with it.

jim
punchy
punchy
WA
98 posts
WA, 98 posts
15 Oct 2004 10:26am
yeah, we used the cloth on some of the racing boats i have been on. we found that it was good for the hull due to its high impact resistance(provided it was a moulded hull and didn't have to be sanded) but on the rudder and centreboard we found it used to crack under high load at the stress points due to carbon and kevlar have different strength charachteristics. the carbon kevlar cloth has its place, just check your job is where its needed. looks unreal though so if its just for show......
elmo
elmo
WA
8894 posts
WA, 8894 posts
15 Oct 2004 12:37pm
Last season Decrepit did 3 nose repairs to my F2 within 4 weeks.

Needless to say I was a litle dark over the affair as all were due to soft impacts. So we decided to go the Carbon kevlar way and rienforce the whole nose section.

At the time Mike was muttering a little as the Kevlay has a tendency to feather when sanding.

All in all the repairs and rienforcing has proved successfully and The "Elmo" impacts are only hurting Elmo now.

Alby


Our reality is only our piont of view.
X-man
X-man
WA
325 posts
WA, 325 posts
15 Oct 2004 1:25pm
Hey you are all talking about sailboards here, does someone know where to use kevlar for a kiteboard? and yeak would it be good for stringers?

X
pole boy
pole boy
WA
292 posts
WA, 292 posts
15 Oct 2004 2:56pm
hey X i actually have a wave board with kevlar stringers, it is a custom board from tarifa which i got second hand. though i know adam quinn had a board for a while which had kevlar stringers going diagonally across the board. i think he liked it but he goes through so many boards who would know. (it's like he thinks he's robby or someone)

Life is but a dream, from which we all must wake.
crashtestdummy
crashtestdummy
VIC
63 posts
VIC, 63 posts
17 Oct 2004 1:46pm
I've just finished making a 120 kiteboard using a balsa core covered top & bottom in one layer 195 Carbon wrapped around the edges, a diamond shaped patch of 195 carbon on the centre of the deck to give extra rigidity, then one layer of 195 Kevlar (top & bottom) wrapped over that (and also around the edges). Kevlar is a pain to work with but my theory is that the rigidity comes from the carbon 'skeleton' and the outer impact strength from the shell of Kevlar. The rails should be tough being 4 layers (2 carbon 2 kevlar) but to make things difficult, the board is only 12mm thick, has kickers, & plenty of concave to match the rocker. So far I've only had it on the water once when there was insufficient wind and it seemed very fast. The only downside I'm anticipating is that the combination of thinness & amount of concave, may cause to may buckle like an 'over extended tape measure' on rails.
It's only my first attempt at a board so if a make another I'll experiment with the next one.
crashtestdummy
crashtestdummy
VIC
63 posts
VIC, 63 posts
17 Oct 2004 1:50pm
Where's the wind ?? I'm keen to test it out !!
X-man
X-man
WA
325 posts
WA, 325 posts
18 Oct 2004 12:56pm
Hey Crashtestdummy, where do you get Balsa from?

X
crashtestdummy
crashtestdummy
VIC
63 posts
VIC, 63 posts
21 Oct 2004 2:16am
Just from your local hobby shop. You could probably get one piece if you went to the right place but I actually glued 4 lengths together (120 long) side by side for the bottom then sandwiched 10 lengths going the other direction for the deck so ended up 2 ply. I did this because I'm guessing that the deck will generally be in compression where as the bottom will generally be in expansion. I understand that End grain has better impact compressive strength but I used normal stuff (length wise grain) because I think it would be stronger during flex. May sound dodgy but my guess is that most of the strength comes from the encapsulating Kevlar/carbon jacket, the balsa is more of a 'filler' to create the shape and dissipate shock over a more even area.

Rode it for the first time down at Altona on Monday. Seems like a very quick board but I've only sailed one about same length (115) last summer on flat water. Not being used to riding a board so short in choppy water was challenging and I went A over T several times. Not giving up yet because it will probably come into its own on flat water - I'm thinking it's maybe not ideal for someone 6ft 2 tall on choppy water.

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