Climate Change

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TonyC
TonyC
WA
410 posts
WA, 410 posts
22 Dec 2007 2:29pm
There's a great DVD out for those interested in climate change "The Great Global Warming Swindle". It discusses how climate change is a natural occurring feature of the planet and how we may be getting swindled by the incorrect science (now a industry in itself) of human CO2 emissions creating it.

Remember the computer Y2000 bug and the massive industry that spawned, all to be shot down in flames, as the risk effects were actually found to be negligible/almost non-existant, the costs then to businesses were enormous and there were very few documentated system problems found that had an effect from the date rollover.

Anyway back to the topic - the DVD goes on to show that very many of the world's leading climatologists do not believe CO2 causes the temperatures to rise. It is actually a lagger with ice records showing that CO2 increases with a 400 year lag to the actual temperature rising, as a result of the planets oceans emitting CO2 as it heats up (takes a long time). Plus all scientists agree that CO2 is only a very weak greenhouse gas, compared to greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and makes up very much less than 1 % of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

Anyway - for all those people on the human CO2 bandwagon - do some research before becoming a "me too / uni student / greenie with nothing better to do than be mad against the world protester" and find out some facts on the research that has been done. At the very least check out this DVD and realise that there is no weight to anything about human CO2 emission being a cause of climate change.

I am a member of Greenpeace and support many of their campaigns (anti-whaling, shale oil etc) but always weary jumping on a bandwagon with no science / logic supporting it (particularly when then is corrupted data tailored to fit a notion - how non-scientific is that = public fraud of the grandest scale). When this turns out to be the massive fraud as is starting to be acknowledged all those pushing it will have been much worse in their treatment/swindling of the public than even George Bush. Wonder if Al Gore is starting to fell like he has a hook in his mouth and the line is being played out - Though he is making an absolute gazillion driving/being on the bandwagon.
rohjar
rohjar
WA
142 posts
WA, 142 posts
22 Dec 2007 10:49pm
Argh- apologies to all those who have been through this cycle of claim-counterclaim before...

I enjoyed watching "The Great Global Warming Swindle" video online. It is quite delicious in a "nyah nyah, you're a pack of scumbags" kind of way.

However... the scientists who appear in the video, if they were serious, would have submitted their counter-claims to scientific journals, and their submissions would be peer-reviewed for validity. Peer-review is an important gate-keeper role for keeping out the boollchit.

The scientists in the video have not been able to get their papers published in credible scientific journals. Therefore TonyC, the "great DVD" you advocate is not great. It is fun-but-trashy entertainment.

I'll bump my earlier post on how to spot pseudoscience because I'd rather people read it than read threads proselytising bad science. [}:)]
shmage
shmage
WA
318 posts
WA, 318 posts
22 Dec 2007 11:55pm
In actual fact that doco is full of misleading information. I watch some show which criticized the Warming Swindle and a lot of what the guy said who made it (sorry dont know his name) was a very bent version of the truth. A lot of scientists cited in the doco were only active in their disciplines decades ago and no longer hold their stated positions. The way these scientists were portrayed sounded as if no one know what they are talking about when it comes to global warming and that it has very little to do with CO2. There are many other ways he bent the truth but i cant remember them all, i say the show a while ago.

To say that CO2 contributes only ~1% of greenhouse gasses, therefore it wouldn't have much effect on global warming is a bit of a crock. To put it into perspective look at snake venom. You only need a few milligrams of the active toxin from the snake to cause some form of physiological responce. Its like saying, dont worry its only a small amount of smallpox, nothing bad will come of it........... Nature is very resilient yet push it only a little outside its normal operating conditions and things go pear shaped pretty quickly.

On that note (yes TonyC im a uni student) i think there is a lot of BS surrounding global warming, CO2 is not the only greenhouse gas responsible. Methane is around 25 times more effective at trapping heat when compared to CO2. SO2, even water is capable of heating the earth.

In any case, global warming or not, we will run out of oil and/or coal eventually to produce power and new sources of energy will be needed. Why not start now to find new sources, only then will we really know who caused global warming. As the saying goes, s*%t or get off the pot.
TonyC
TonyC
WA
410 posts
WA, 410 posts
23 Dec 2007 12:55am
Hi Shmage.

You seem to have twisted a few of the points. CO2 represents less than 1% of greenhouse gases - and it is at the lower end of the effect that all greenhouse gases have on retaining heat. It has a much lower effect increasing CO2 than there is with other greenhouse gases including most importantly water vapour. The other major point is that the ice records, which are used for all the research on climate history show that an increase in CO2 always occurred on a lagged basis hundreds of years following climate warming due to the fact the ocean releases CO2 when it heats up - Increasing CO2 is a by-product effect of the warming, so logically that would mean if our climate is already heating up, which most scientists agree, then CO2 will be rising accordingly. So the question is really how much effect is emission of CO2 caused by humans having on what appears to already be global warming from normal earth changing environment. Aren't we a little conceited to think that the world's climate is a non-changing environment, unless of course it is caused by humans. Climate change is a norm for the earth and we have been blessed with a relatively stable climate during the last few thousand years. Can you please provide details of where the DVD data is misleading. If the DVD is that misleading I am certain the international climate change bodies would be seeking to sue them to stop them from misleading the public, but alas nothing of that sort has been happening.

I totally agree that we need to find alternative fuel sources with peak oil approaching, and certainly not enough funding is being pumped in that direction though the pressure is on to do so. One thing I do believe in is that the end does not justify the means - and creating false beliefs to obtain funding is just fraud, still that also becomes a matter of public perception and funnily enough even Science seems to be driven by politics and public perception today. BTW I also am a continuing Uni student, though not in the undergraduate sense.
biggrin
biggrin
WA
107 posts
WA, 107 posts
23 Dec 2007 10:18am
With the new Bali agreement freshly signed , here's a very interesting video of GWB trying to explain global warming to the American people from his ranch in Crawford, Texas. I'm sure you'll have a full grasp of the issue by the time you've watched this. The youtube.com video is linked below




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