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> 10 years ago

Shooting the breeze.

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

11 Sep 2006 12:40pm

Hi guys,
I had a little mast to nose incident on the weekend which has caused a small soft spot and crack about 4cms long. I've had this happen before on a mistral score and fixed it with some epoxy and glass. i have looked at the "The Board Lady" website and she uses divinycell to fix a (30 times worse) "nose crunch". So... when is a "crack" big enough to justify using divinycell and if the answer is "always" where can i purchase a very small bit in Sydney?!

Also does anyone use anything to stop this happening - i have seen people duct tape stuff on the nose, what foam is used (that doesn't take on water) or is it better using a mast protector beneath the boom?

Thanks for reading!!

FilthyAmatuer

877 posts

FilthyAmatuer

WA, 877 posts

11 Sep 2006 10:54am

hehe, i just use knead it... u just gonna smash it again anyway.

racycoot

315 posts

racycoot

WA, 315 posts

11 Sep 2006 11:06am

if you like your mast in the back of the track Jez's knob might sort you out:

~~http://2ndwind.com.au/products-new/jezknob.asp~~

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

11 Sep 2006 1:25pm

racycoot, i used to have one of those but i found it often got in the way when waterstarting as you had to lift the sail up real high to turn the board around...

I have also read that it voids warranties because of the massive upwards force on the mast track can pull it up...think of the leverage and how close the pivot point is!

filthy - good point! it's just that my board still looks like new, and i'm a bit of a tart..

racycoot

315 posts

racycoot

WA, 315 posts

11 Sep 2006 1:04pm

quote:
Originally posted by Crash Landing

I have also read that it voids warranties because of the massive upwards force on the mast track can pull it up.

is this true, Jez?

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

11 Sep 2006 4:01pm

hmmm, don't want to put Jez out of business... it's a well made product.

This is the article (scroll to bottom) that I read. I'd also like to say I have had no problems in 2 years of using one. I just don't have one any longer.. Therefore I am not supporting this article, just letting people know of it's existance.

~~http://www.gunsails.co.uk/en/trimtips.htm~~

Please don't sue me.

racycoot

315 posts

racycoot

WA, 315 posts

11 Sep 2006 2:37pm

Just thought I'd ask Jez himself because (not sure if you know but) he runs a shop in Perth and claims to be very steadfast when it comes to warranties. I'd be surprised if he'd sell something that would void warranties.

I know how much you lurve the forums Jez

but if by some chance you do read this, your perspective?.....

decrepit

12885 posts

decrepit

WA, 12885 posts

11 Sep 2006 7:27pm

quote:
Originally posted by FilthyAmatuer

hehe, i just use knead it... u just gonna smash it again anyway.

trouble is filth, every time it happens the board gets a bit weaker.

new dcell is only really neccessary when the old is stuffed.
If it's just a bit cracked, you can fill that with knead it. (dcell is only under compressive loads, so doesn't nead any cloth) smooth that off and put a couple of layers of cloth over the top.

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

12 Sep 2006 8:56am

Decrepit, i guess that'll be the best way to fix it. As for the actual resin, i have a surfboard fixing kit - it comes with glass, foam, resin, hardner, micro granuals etc. This is ok to use on a windsurfer isn't it?!

Also if I glass over some graphic can i touch it up with bog standard acrylic paint that artists use?

Thanks for the help!

Kremlin

418 posts

Kremlin

418 posts

12 Sep 2006 11:09am

Comrade Crash

See if you can track down an old style strap on/velcro mast protector
Turn upside down and attach to mast just below boom (if you have enough room... your boom will need to be set high)

You can also go to surf shop and buy tail pad deck grip
You want the raised bit that normally goes at back of surf board.
You cut off the grip in front of the raised pad and throw away.
Stick thick tail pad (back to front) on nose of board so the thickets part is at the tip of the nose and the tapered bit points down towards the mast track direction.

It will stop you from smashing nose further

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

12 Sep 2006 1:18pm

Awesome idea Kremlin!

I will be trying that out.

Cheers!

Combs

152 posts

Combs

WA, 152 posts

12 Sep 2006 1:08pm

I would suspect Jez is still up at Cocos and may not answer in the short term. I do remember this same issue from a year or so ago and from memory there was no problem with the knob.

I always use a mast protector attached under the boom. I have had the 'occassional' bingle and my Mistral noses are still in one piece. I would recommend this as the first line of defence after the sages wise words of "don't let go of the rig". All well and good if you are superman.

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

12 Sep 2006 3:57pm

I let go off the rig in ankle deep water on Saturday in 35 knots. About 5 minutes before that I'd bent my hand right back which i've been informed by a physio has "over extended every ligament/tendon/muscle in the forearm". A few weeks off the water and a broken board - so timing isn't too bad!

I'll be getting myself a mast protector as it'll protect the mast as well. Hopefully they're still made!

Cheers.

decrepit

12885 posts

decrepit

WA, 12885 posts

12 Sep 2006 5:40pm

quote:
Originally posted by Crash Landing

Decrepit, i guess that'll be the best way to fix it. As for the actual resin, i have a surfboard fixing kit - it comes with glass, foam, resin, hardner, micro granuals etc. This is ok to use on a windsurfer isn't it?!

Also if I glass over some graphic can i touch it up with bog standard acrylic paint that artists use?

Thanks for the help!

Your surfboard fixing kit, is polyester resin. BE WARNED!!!!!! This melts the styrene foam inner core that most modern windsurfers are made from.
It also can have a bad reaction with epoxy resin if it isn't completley cured. Forget which way round it is, bu the fumes given off by one when it's curing stop the other from setting properly.

I'm fairly sure polyester is ok with most high density foams in the sandwich though, so if you're sure there's no leakage into the inner core you should be ok, but I don't think I'd risk it.
If it's only a small area 24hr areldite will do the job, that's an epoxy resin. You can mix some of the micro granuals with it to bog up the holes, if you don't have knead it.

When you have that all finished nice and smooth I'd try a bit of paint see how it sticks, it sure wont hurt epoxy.

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

12 Sep 2006 7:48pm

Geez, decrepit - you saved me with literaly minutes left! This is exactly why Seabreeze is an awesome resource for people like me!

Thanks for the advice. After having another look at the board the crack isn't that bad so I'll give araldite a go. Basically my key concern is to keep the water out!

Thanks again!!!!

decrepit

12885 posts

decrepit

WA, 12885 posts

12 Sep 2006 7:23pm

Glad to be of help.
Nothing worse than the insides of your board a gooey mess!

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

14 Sep 2006 11:17am

Decrepit et al,

Just to confirm, do I use bog-standard araldite, the sort of stuff you get from a hardware store? A couple of questions regarding araldite:

1. Is it waterproof?
2. Can I use it with glass cloth?
3. Is it sandable?
4. What colour does it dry to?

Thanks!!

racycoot

315 posts

racycoot

WA, 315 posts

14 Sep 2006 9:52am

quote:
Originally posted by Crash Landing
I'll be getting myself a mast protector as it'll protect the mast as well. Hopefully they're still made!

Cheers.

They are still made, I picked one up from a wind shop a couple of months ago. It is Aerotech brand.

If you can't find one locally pm me.

decrepit

12885 posts

decrepit

WA, 12885 posts

14 Sep 2006 6:16pm

quote:
Originally posted by Crash Landing

Just to confirm, do I use bog-standard araldite, the sort of stuff you get from a hardware store? A couple of questions regarding araldite:

1. Is it waterproof?
2. Can I use it with glass cloth?
3. Is it sandable?
4. What colour does it dry to?

Araldite is epoxy resin, albeit an expensive way to buy it, but as you say you can get it in small sizes from any hardware store.

1. Yep standard 24hr high strength, the 5 min stuff is a bit soft and weak, but gets you going quick in an emergency, is also usefull for "tacking" stuff in place, so you can work on it with the proper stuff.

2. Yep, but as I said it's just a bit thick for easy wetting out, but with a bit of squeegee work it's ok.

3. Yep. But if it's a cold 24hs it may still be a bit soft, and may clog, try and get some heat to it so it hardens up

4. with UV on it a yucky brown, I'm sorry, you may need to paint it.

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

21 Sep 2006 8:45am

Decrepit, thanks for the help, I finally got round to sanding the araldite back and it's come up a treat. I just need to paint it next. Thinking of using regular acrylic with a sponge...

One question though (open to anyone) - when I sanded/keyed the original damaged spot the gel coat (i guess that's what it is) thinned out (obviously) and what was left was a black material. When I did the same to my Mistral Score (very similar nose shape) a couple of years ago, the nose only had foam core, what i assumed to be divinycell and gel coat.

Do newer/more expensive boards (it's a naish wave from last year) have carbon in the nose and if yes - why? I thought Carbon was for rigidity/torsonial strength. Carbon wouldn't be good in high impact areas would it? Maybe it's kevlar - what colour is that?

decrepit

12885 posts

decrepit

WA, 12885 posts

21 Sep 2006 6:46pm

Yep you're right it's carbon, and it doesn't have good impact strength!!!
But it does make a good light stiff board, just a bit "egg-shelly"
Kevlar is a yellowy colour, so it's definitely not that.

Elmo's board is a similar construction and he was always bring it to me with a busted nose, so we finally reinforced it with some carbon/kevlar composite cloth just around the rails of the nose. He hasn't brought it back since.

jsn_batman

86 posts

jsn_batman

WA, 86 posts

21 Sep 2006 7:48pm

if its a crack ner the nose its kneed it but if its somewhere strength is crucial then go for something a little stronger, or fill it with an expoxy resin using cross strand fibreglass, then a good sand, get the board sprayed by someone BRAND NEW, hey do pros get decent customs spray jobs on there boards anymore??

mkseven

QLD

2315 posts

mkseven

QLD, 2315 posts

21 Sep 2006 11:26pm

quote:
Originally posted by Crash Landing

Decrepit, thanks for the help, I finally got round to sanding the araldite back and it's come up a treat. I just need to paint it next. Thinking of using regular acrylic with a sponge...

One question though (open to anyone) - when I sanded/keyed the original damaged spot the gel coat (i guess that's what it is) thinned out (obviously) and what was left was a black material. When I did the same to my Mistral Score (very similar nose shape) a couple of years ago, the nose only had foam core, what i assumed to be divinycell and gel coat.

Do newer/more expensive boards (it's a naish wave from last year) have carbon in the nose and if yes - why? I thought Carbon was for rigidity/torsonial strength. Carbon wouldn't be good in high impact areas would it? Maybe it's kevlar - what colour is that?

Yes higher end boards are generally carbon whereas something like you're score uses plastic over a closed cell foam with maybe some carbon in areas such as the mast track and footstraps. It is the combination of plastic and hard foam which creates the ridgity but also is more accepting of impacts.

Production boards are mysterious things and companies use all sorts of things to save on money- carbon stringers, carbon strands, foam and plastic/glass etc. The foam isnt actually divinycell i think which tends to be a darker brown colour and is harder. The plastic boards often use a more intermediate foam which is less likeley to crack and sometimes use a second high density foam (f2 wave- which have a green coloured foam).

Crash Landing

NSW

1173 posts

Crash Landing

NSW, 1173 posts

22 Sep 2006 11:00am

I'm pretty certain my score was a better quality than plastic.. it defo had a gelcoat, divinycell and foam!

From a review "made in Carbon Wood sandwich construction." It was very light...

mkseven

QLD

2315 posts

mkseven

QLD, 2315 posts

22 Sep 2006 12:19pm

Fair enough, that must be one hell of a gel coat.

Maybe there is carbon/wood under the foam, probably just in the standing area though.

decrepit

12885 posts

decrepit

WA, 12885 posts

22 Sep 2006 6:19pm

The "gel coat" was propably epoxy and fiberglass with a layer of paint.

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Crash Landing

FilthyAmatuer

racycoot

Crash Landing

racycoot

Crash Landing

racycoot

decrepit

Crash Landing

Kremlin

Crash Landing

Combs

Crash Landing

decrepit

Crash Landing

decrepit

Crash Landing

racycoot

decrepit

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decrepit

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