Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Is China becoming next Nigeria ? Fraud in China.

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Created by Macroscien 1 month ago, 5 Apr 2019
Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 12:52PM
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After trading for 20 years with China I am a bit disappointing with recent turnaround in mentality in China.For many years China seems to be reliable supplier, maybe not the highest quality but at least value for money goods. Proud of their hard work and polite staff altitude seems now changed to arrogant and dismissive. The worse that could happen - two of my suppliers took the money and send nothing in exchange.Two container loads of goods lost! They blame hackers that compromised their email accounts but loss is all mine!
Apparently there is not much I/ we could do. One may think that China reached similar to western standards in law and enforcement but it seems not to be the case.
I wonder if there is any chance to recover something, seek any help at Chamber of Commerce, police here or in China?
Are we, small businesses in Australia have any chance to seek some justice against Chinese fraud? If there is any channel that we could complain to their , Chinese authorities, police ?
I may service losses but it seems obvious that recent developments in China , change from polite partner to predator may force us to keep allerted.
So now my initial doubt about Huawei ban , may meet my approval.

quikdrawMcgraw
1061 posts
5 Apr 2019 10:55AM
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Yes

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 1:11PM
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My post may serve as a warning to others too.
I wonder if fraud flourishing in China is a sign of :-lack of law enforcement in China? -tolerance to fraud and crime-general population mentality?

To test tolerance you/we could just open eBay to look at Chinese product,
Anything, like a battery.Physically impossible to construct anywhere in the world , beside China.
Panasonic in Japan can do the best battery in the world at capacity 3000-3500mAh but Chinese somehow able to offer 3x higher capacity at 10% of price.





straddiepaul
QLD, 148 posts
5 Apr 2019 2:34PM
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Macroscien said..
My post may serve as a warning to others too.
I wonder if fraud flourishing in China is a sign of :-lack of law enforcement in China? -tolerance to fraud and crime-general population mentality?

To test tolerance you/we could just open eBay to look at Chinese product,
Anything, like a battery.Physically impossible to construct anywhere in the world , beside China.
Panasonic in Japan can do the best battery in the world at capacity 3000-3500mAh but Chinese somehow able to offer 3x higher capacity at 10% of price.






The 9900mah must be the 4 in parallel, ie 2475mah each.. 3600mah is about max @
Still cheap tho 'fake' cells abound in china

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 3:14PM
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straddiepaul said..



Macroscien said..
My post may serve as a warning to others too.
I wonder if fraud flourishing in China is a sign of :-lack of law enforcement in China? -tolerance to fraud and crime-general population mentality?

To test tolerance you/we could just open eBay to look at Chinese product,
Anything, like a battery.Physically impossible to construct anywhere in the world , beside China.
Panasonic in Japan can do the best battery in the world at capacity 3000-3500mAh but Chinese somehow able to offer 3x higher capacity at 10% of price.









The 9900mah must be the 4 in parallel, ie 2475mah each.. 3600mah is about max @
Still cheap tho 'fake' cells abound in china




Printing 9900 mAh is on each battery not for set of 4.
Beside independent test show real capacity 850 to 1100 max.
This is like selling 1 kg of sugar or flour that have only 100g in it.

or vodka that have 4% of alcohol instead of 40% and beer that have been diluted 1 bottle in 1 gallon of water .
Or imagine Chinese petrol station that charge you for 45 L of gas to fill your car and give you 4.5L instead.

What if Huawei 5G means 0.5G in real world ?

You could buy this battery tester on eBay ( obviously Made In China) that will properly test their battery capacity. What worry me is tolerance for such false, misleading advertising that is now going on constantly without any objections or controll.

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 3:20PM
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To prove the point the CHEATING becomes now the main stream in China you could just open their
favorite ALIBABA equivalent of our eBay or Kiwi TradeMe.
www.alibaba.com
You will find instantly that cheating and false is do prominent that truth is difficult to find.


My favorite topic TRACTOR point to items that do not exist at such price at all.

or ATV quad



Obviously this big 1.5 bln people nation do cheat most likely each other but now the rest of the world needs to bow to their level of truthness.

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 3:53PM
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Is now right time for best marketing slogan? advertising label?


straddiepaul
QLD, 148 posts
5 Apr 2019 4:00PM
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straddiepaul said..

Macroscien said..
My post may serve as a warning to others too.
I wonder if fraud flourishing in China is a sign of :-lack of law enforcement in China? -tolerance to fraud and crime-general population mentality?

To test tolerance you/we could just open eBay to look at Chinese product,
Anything, like a battery.Physically impossible to construct anywhere in the world , beside China.
Panasonic in Japan can do the best battery in the world at capacity 3000-3500mAh but Chinese somehow able to offer 3x higher capacity at 10% of price.







The 9900mah must be the 4 in parallel, ie 2475mah each.. 3600mah is about max @
Still cheap tho 'fake' cells abound in china


A review of the above battery on ebike chat room, tested way below 1000mah....

Conclusion
They capacity is way lower then any normal cell and it cannot deliver much current. I wonder if the missing vent holes are because the internal cell protection (PTC & CID) is missing?

This is what I call a bad cell.

Fake products!

FormulaNova
NSW, 8634 posts
5 Apr 2019 5:38PM
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Macroscien, have you been asleep for 20 years? China has prospered because it was a source of cheap labour and was happy to ignore any intellectual property rights. Did you think it was because they were innovators?

I think generally what has happened was that companies would build their own plants their in order to get the quality they need and take advantage of the cheap labour. It was only a matter of time before the Chinese then either took over those plants or replicated them to create the same product, sometimes of the same quality, sometimes not as good.

Did you think all your tractor parts were an original design from some company in china? More than likely they were knock offs of some existing design.

This has worked out well for China as they are now able to catch up with the rest of the world because they have a lot of their production technology anyway. The interesting thing is that we are starting to see original designs come from there, which goes to show how far they have moved.

China, taking over the world one Honda rip-off mower at a time.

Did you think there is some equivalent of the ACCC in China? Did you think they were just cheaper because they were Chinese?

Kamikuza
QLD, 3864 posts
5 Apr 2019 5:07PM
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... Recent turnaround?

japie
QLD, 4905 posts
5 Apr 2019 5:22PM
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Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 5:37PM
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FormulaNova said..
Macroscien, have you been asleep for 20 years?


In such case the next victim will be much more prominent then me.
Elon Musk is about to complete this Tesla production line in China this year.Most likely very soon Chinese knock off will flood the world with Tesla Roadstar at 100x bigger range, at the cost electric bicycle or toster.
www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-model-3-production-equipment-may/





Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 5:43PM
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Kamikuza said..
... Recent turnaround?



Yep , you think that you deal with serious corporate in civilised country.
Looks like nothing of those is true.
Lets turn a table.
Imagine that is our prestigious Australian company, iron ore miner and disgruntled employee divert all incoming funds from China to his own pocket. When Chinese aks where are their promised ore, our CEO will tell them to pay again or go f*** themselves.

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 6:05PM
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You hardly can beat the price on carbon masts made in China.Even if you grown your own from Bamboo, could still cost you more then $1 a piece.


source: www.alibaba.com
I think that in this contest China beat Nigeria 1:0 at scamming.
That because Nigerians do their dirty business on their own , and Chinese in government sponsored/approved.

AUS1111
WA, 3325 posts
5 Apr 2019 4:26PM
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I used to have a theory that in China there must be entire cities you haven't heard of, the size of Sydney, consisting of factories that only manufacture stuff that doesn't actually work, like the tool sets you get in a Christmas cracker or a showbag.

It's probably true, but now they've branched out to batteries, tractors and.....Teslas??

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
5 Apr 2019 6:49PM
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japie said..



Funny because Monty mentioned 900 mln people and there is 1500mln as today or even twice as much if you include all living overseas.
The risk is that Chinese may become more and more frustrated by their own cheating as consumers.
One day may wish to copycat other stuff invented overseas like honor, reliability, even TRUTH ?

GreenTea
21 posts
5 Apr 2019 6:31PM
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I'm extremely worried where we will stand with the Chinese in 2039.

japie
QLD, 4905 posts
5 Apr 2019 9:10PM
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Well you won't be standing next to a Rhino with them because the stupid F^ckers will have eaten the lot.

You would think that they would take a step toward conserving them if they are such an integral item for procreation.

When they've eaten the lot there's going to be an awfully large number of Chings suffering from droopy willy.

Perhaps the demise of Rhinos is what it is going to take to halt the growth of the Chinese population.

quikdrawMcgraw
1061 posts
5 Apr 2019 7:34PM
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GreenTea said..
I'm extremely worried where we will stand with the Chinese in 2039.


2039? Any specific reason for 2039?

gs12
WA, 259 posts
5 Apr 2019 7:48PM
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FormulaNova said..
Did you think it was because they were innovators?



chinese innovators in action




here is the result

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/features/chinese-copycat-cars-can-you-spot-the-western-inspiration-behind-these-designs-a7015966.html

Chris6791
WA, 3141 posts
5 Apr 2019 9:03PM
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AUS1111 said..
I used to have a theory that in China there must be entire cities you haven't heard of, the size of Sydney, consisting of factories that only manufacture stuff that doesn't actually work, like the tool sets you get in a Christmas cracker or a showbag.


I poked around on Google, it seems that city is Yiwu. 1000+ containers a day come out of it, including Macro's missing ones.

theDoctor
NSW, 4736 posts
6 Apr 2019 11:38AM
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Macroscien said..
Is now right time for best marketing slogan? advertising label?



That slogan totally reads like it was made in China

Brent in Qld
QLD, 141 posts
6 Apr 2019 11:24AM
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I haven't witnessed a change for the worse in attitude of manufacturers across the industries I deal with in the region. There are some bad apples out there but we reap what we sew. if anything reputable manufacturers+suppliers are becoming more savvy to western business requirements. More & more they are looking for consistent business and starting to push back when being driven too low on price having learnt not to do the business if it's going to cost them their business.

When a consignment leaves the dock FOB, standard protocol is ownership for your consignment transfers to you unless you have spent time on the ground with a manufacturer or suppliers building a long term relationship. Containers do get pilfered occasionally or go missing but generally don't stay that way for long. If you have receipts & the necessary transit paper work, you can make an insurance claim. Further if you have photos of the packed & locked container when it left the supplier, this will help also. I hope you find your stuff or get some compensation.

Good luck if you are doing any long term business based on Alibaba info.... my experience indicates a market place for unrealistic price comparisons, run-outs & rejected stock.

Ben1973
218 posts
6 Apr 2019 9:28AM
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I work for a company owned by Chinese, most of the high end equipment we sell from US and Canadian company's is made in China. It's like every thing you get what you pay for, they Chinese are very good at making cheap crap BUT they are also very good at making high end, high quality stuff you just have to pay more for it.

for example there's a factory knocking out carbon bicycle frames, you can buy one for $70cad which works but that's about all you can say about it but they also produce a some very high frames for thousands. I've seen their catalogue, you can basically choose what, seat stay, chain stay, seat tube , top tube etc design you want from the pictures then spec what quality you want and they will make it.

as an example you could choose a bike that say looks exactly like a Trek Madone and have it made for $50 or you could have a version built that would be better than the original for a few thousand.

quikdrawMcgraw
1061 posts
6 Apr 2019 10:44AM
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GreenTea
21 posts
6 Apr 2019 5:04PM
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quikdrawMcgraw said..

GreenTea said..
I'm extremely worried where we will stand with the Chinese in 2039.



2039? Any specific reason for 2039?


100 year anniversary.

quikdrawMcgraw
1061 posts
6 Apr 2019 5:23PM
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GreenTea said..

quikdrawMcgraw said..


GreenTea said..
I'm extremely worried where we will stand with the Chinese in 2039.




2039? Any specific reason for 2039?



100 year anniversary.


Ooooooooooooooooo gotcha
I

Mr Milk
NSW, 1508 posts
6 Apr 2019 11:52PM
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I looked at the title on this topic and thought that someone must have got an email from a Chinese Communist Party member who needed help shifting millions of $ out of the country.
Turns out that Nigerian made stuff is not much good.

quikdrawMcgraw
1061 posts
11 Apr 2019 1:16PM
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Ching chong China man are a fing funny bunch, I recently did 3 months in Vietnam and even the Vietnamese were laying **** on them.
For all there supposed thousands of yrs old wisdom and Buddhist practice Chinese have very little manners, even less social graces and self/spatial awareness.
And I'm not even a racist, I hate everyone the same amount.

FormulaNova
NSW, 8634 posts
11 Apr 2019 3:45PM
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quikdrawMcgraw said..
Ching chong China man are a fing funny bunch, I recently did 3 months in Vietnam and even the Vietnamese were laying **** on them.
For all there supposed thousands of yrs old wisdom and Buddhist practice Chinese have very little manners, even less social graces and self/spatial awareness.
And I'm not even a racist, I hate everyone the same amount.


I guess its just a different culture with different ideas on things. I read somewhere that this is changing as the middle class change, and probably becoming more snobbish.

My experience is being seated on the aisle seat of a plane and when the seatbelt sign was turned off, being pushed in the back by the chinese lady that was sitting next to me. I guess in their culture its good to move fast!

Macroscien
QLD, 4633 posts
12 Apr 2019 6:04PM
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If China will not curb their people cheating habits , the rest of the world can not stop them.
The only hope is that one day they wish to live in the world that truth have more value then quick bucks.


As to the rest of the world I hope the smart robots could replace soon cheap Chinese labour and quality goods could be manufactured everywhere at reasonable cost.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Is China becoming next Nigeria ? Fraud in China." started by Macroscien