Lies, damned lies and global warming

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nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
6 Jun 2008 10:01am
www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/05/goddard_nasa_thermometer/

I'm really starting to wonder about this, it's turned into such a political football that you can't even trust the so-called 'scientists' anymore.
GlenMorangie
GlenMorangie
WA
88 posts
WA, 88 posts
6 Jun 2008 10:27am
Of course that report is biased. That's why its on the internet. In the end it just asks about the validity of NASA's choice of data.


Don't believe what you read on the internet. Even Wikipedia. Always validate an argument with credible sources.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
6 Jun 2008 12:44pm
There's a lot of money/funding to be had on both sides of the argument.

After carefully studying all the data, especially my big fold-out national geographic poster, and also using my own observations, I have come to the conclusion that it is getting warmer in the northern hemisphere and colder in the southern. You heard it here first.

For example:
http://www.niwa.cri.nz/news/mr/2005/2005-08-30-1
GlenMorangie
GlenMorangie
WA
88 posts
WA, 88 posts
6 Jun 2008 1:51pm
evlPanda said...

There's a lot of money/funding to be had on both sides of the argument.

After carefully studying all the data, especially my big fold-out national geographic poster, and also using my own observations, I have come to the conclusion that it is getting warmer in the northern hemisphere and colder in the southern. You heard it here first.

For example:
http://www.niwa.cri.nz/news/mr/2005/2005-08-30-1


but only in May/June?
teabagg
teabagg
NSW
141 posts
NSW, 141 posts
6 Jun 2008 4:11pm
.....the mayan prophecies by maurice m cotterell
knot board
knot board
QLD
1241 posts
QLD, 1241 posts
6 Jun 2008 4:22pm
GlenMorangie said...

Don't believe what you read on the internet. Even Wikipedia. Always validate an argument with credible sources.


LOL, thanks !
GlenMorangie
GlenMorangie
WA
88 posts
WA, 88 posts
6 Jun 2008 4:21pm
knot board said...

GlenMorangie said...

Don't believe what you read on the internet. Even Wikipedia. Always validate an argument with credible sources.


LOL, thanks !


Well Wikipedia is a user generated site. That means anyone can put anything on there.

for a laugh, try http://uncyclopedia.org/
teabagg
teabagg
NSW
141 posts
NSW, 141 posts
6 Jun 2008 8:32pm
Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change (Updated)
By Noah Shachtman June 03, 2008 | 1:46:00 PMCategories: Science!

The Army is weighing in on the global warming debate, claiming that climate change is not entirely man-made. Instead, Dr. Bruce West, with the Army Research Office, argues that "changes in the earth’s average surface temperature are directly linked to ... the short-term statistical fluctuations in the Sun’s irradiance and the longer-term solar cycles."

In an advisory to bloggers entitled "Global Warming: Fact of Fiction [sic]," an Army public affairs official promoted a conference call with West about "the causes of global warming, and how it may not be caused by the common indicates [sic] some scientists and the media are indicating."

In the March, 2008 issue of Physics Today, West, the chief scientist of the Army Research Office's mathematical and information science directorate, wrote that "the Sun’s turbulent dynamics" are linked with the Earth's complex ecosystem. These connections are what is heating up the planet. "The Sun could account for as much as 69 percent of the increase in Earth’s average temperature," West noted.

It's a position that puts West at odds with nearly every major scientific organization on the planet. "The American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling," Science magazine observes. So has the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which shared the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with Al Gore, for their work on global warming. [UPDATE: West himself said during a Thursday conference call that global warming is at least partially man-made -- and maybe as much as "70 percent" due to human intervention.]

West faults the IPCC and other scientific groups have "conclude[d] that the contribution of solar variability to global warming is negligible." He argues that these groups have done a poor job modeling the Sun's impact, however, and that's why they have "significantly over-estimated" the "anthropogenic contribution to global warming."

In recent days, the science and politics of climate change have once again taken center stage. NASA's Inspector General just issued a report, acknowledging that political appointees "reduced, marginalized or mischaracterized climate change science made available to the general public." Yesterday, the Senate began debating a bill that would cap carbon dioxide emissions -- considered one of the leading causes of man-made global warming.

UPDATE: "The Army does not have a position on global warming. Dr. West is an Army chief scientist, and is presenting one alternative theory to the cause of global warming," Army spokesperson Lindy Dinklage tells Danger Room. "This research is just some amongst thousands of studies being conducted by Army Scientists across the globe."

Okay. But the Army's Office of the Chief of Public Affairs chose to promote just this one study. And when Army public affairs rolls out research from an Army chief scientist -- with no clarifications that these are just his private views -- I think it's fair to call that an official endorsement.

After the jump: the Army's full press release.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dinklage, Lindy J. Ms OCPA <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Subject: Army Blogger's Roundtable: Global Warming (UNCLASSIFIED)
To:


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Caveats: NONE

Army Blogger’s Roundtable

Global Warming: Fact of Fiction

11 AM Thursday, June 5

Is global warming really caused by humans, or is it simply the result of different aspects of the sun’s dynamics?

Dr. Bruce West, Chief Scientist, Mathematical & Information Science Directorate, Army Research Office, will discuss the causes of global warming, and how it may not be caused by the common indicates some scientists and the media are indicating. Research conducted by Dr. West contends that the changes in the earth’s average surface temperature are directly linked to two distinctly different aspects of the sun’s dynamics: the short-term statistical fluctuations in the Sun’s irradiance and the longer-term solar cycles.

Please reply to this message if you are interested in participating.

Lindy Kyzer

Public Affairs Specialist

Media Relations Division

Office of the Chief of Public Affairs

Department of the Army

703.XXXXXXXXX (w)

202.XXXXXXXXX (c)

[email protected]



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Caveats: NONE

GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
6 Jun 2008 8:45pm
The Army said...


...climate change is not entirely man-made.


Well fancy that. Geologists have been saying that for hundreds of years. Climates change, strewth. Always have, always will.

I'm not so sure that performing the science experiment on a global scale of pumping billions of tonnes of carbon into the atmosphere of our own habitat in such a short time frame is a such good idea, but what would I know. It's not like I'm not guilty of doing it too.

Once upon a time the Wikipedia definition of 'quiver' included a reference to a kiteboarder's quiver of kites. It seems to be gone now, at least it was when I last looked. Was sort of cool though, in a nerdy sort of way...
brady
brady
TAS
455 posts
TAS, 455 posts
8 Jun 2008 7:16am
The most fascinating thing about the global warming "debate" is that there is any debate at all! And I really do find it fascinating. If you sit back and watch the patterns of behaviour, rather than the science, it is really cool to watch

Every couple of months someone puts a post like this on seabreeze, disputing the science, and often quoting some new science release. It is amazing how these things get themselves propagaterd. It's called viral marketing guys, and there are some very well paid (and very clever) people monitoring the types of things that are being said on forums, the types of comments that routinely get promoted and repeated, and ensuring that these are the type of releases that get made.

This is not some freaky conspiracy, poison in the water type thing.

The public relations inductry is worth many many billions of dollars per year. The money spent globally on PR campaigns is more than the entire world's advertising budget (see books by Stauber and Rampton for details). The reason we don't notice most PR campaigns is because they are very good at it.

The whole sunspot fluctuation bit is a complete furphy. By selecting a band of 15 years, the data matches well. But we have records for much much longer than that, and when it is all included, there is no correlation whatsoever. This strategy of selective data presentation is the basis of most of the counter-global warming "science" out there.

In the latest edition of Cosmos nmagazine, they have a very interesting article about Greenlnd. The glaciers there have started flowing at very high speeds, sucht hat it is no longer a case of the ice sheets melting, but them slipping off and sliding into the sea. This is a much faster process, and not taken into acount in the IPCC models. They are not sure, but it probably is caused by the initial meltwater makign its way to the ice-rock interface, making a slippery surface so the ice accelerates.

Does anyone know what the long term consequences of this are? Course not. Unfortunately, that uncertainty is picked up by the PR industry, and viral marketing will do the rest
teabagg
teabagg
NSW
141 posts
NSW, 141 posts
8 Jun 2008 1:00pm
^^^^ what science...? the one picked up and run with by viral 'pr firms', which gave us the all so credible piece of propaganda slickly delivered by oil man al gore, or the one ignored and even slandered by the same 'pr firms' which is noticing how the magnetic feild of the earth is rapidly diminishing and the suns' rapidly increasing.

one focuses soley on the handful of mostly northern hemisphere glaciers, and a small section of the west coast of antartica (bordering the ring of fire), which happen to be the first indicators of this rapid change- due to changes within the earth as much as external influences, and then 'spun' into a model which suits the slickly run 'viral pr firms' campaign (and their employers agenda), which turns around and says 'we are doomed and its your fault and the only way to save yourselves is to buy into what we are now going to sell you, and you have to trust us because we have the loudest voice, and the loudest voice is always right'..... or

another mostly ignored one, which is saying these earth changes are as much a reaction of the earth as it is the sun, use historical data and evidence of sun spot fluctuations- the cycle is roughly 11.5 years of maximums and minimums, to show that this latest cycle is basically, 'off the charts'. information drawn from many points of science- including astrology, historical data and even ancient wisdom, which are drawing conclusions that this has happened before, is about to happen again and will most certainly happen in the future, almost as if it were a cycle.....
hmmm, funny that...
its all about control, nothing more nothing less.
the current global warming 'debate' is a freaky conspiracy, there is hard evidence about flouride being a poison in our water supply, it is ignored and suppressed. just as the evidence pointing to what has happened in the past and what is rapidly approaching us is ignored and suppressed.
....i am sorry your one eye sees no real debate on this topic, and am sad that you feel this missleading distraction to be fascinating and cool
BigFatMick
BigFatMick
273 posts
273 posts
8 Jun 2008 3:04pm
Watch a horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie right there on my TV
Shockin' me right outa my brain

It's bound to get ya in
Get right under your skin
Hit you right on the chin - oh yeah
It's bound to be a thriller
It's bound to be a chiller
It's bound to be a killer - oh yeah

The planes are a-crashin
The cars are a-smashin
The cops are a-bashin - oh yeah
The kids are a-fightin
The fires are a-lightin
The dogs are a-bitin - oh yeah

You think it's just a movie on silver screen
And they're all actors and fake old scenes
Maybe you don't care who's gonna lose or win
Listen to this and I'll tell you somethin'

It's a horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie and it's blown a fuse
Horror movie, it's the six-thirty news

The public's waitin
For the killin and the hatin
Switch on the station - oh yeah
They do a lotta sellin
Between the firin and the yellin
And you believe in what they're tellin - oh yeah

(Shirl, Red, and the boys from SkyHooks. From oh so long ago.)
digital
digital
WA
291 posts
WA, 291 posts
8 Jun 2008 3:15pm
" We all got it coming to us kid "

William Munny says to the Skofield Kid in the hit flick UNFORGIVEN
easty
easty
TAS
2213 posts
TAS, 2213 posts
8 Jun 2008 6:22pm
BigFatMick said...



(Shirl, Red, and the boys from SkyHooks. From oh so long ago.)


Was it, seems like the other day? Bugger, must be getting old.
RIP Shirl.

biggrin
biggrin
WA
107 posts
WA, 107 posts
22 Jun 2008 11:11am
Is Al Gore in it for the "betterment" of all?

http://tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=764
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