I have been trying to get my head around the NDIS policy and am still struggling to understand why?

Hoping others can shed light on their perspective:

From what I can understand:

Cost - $22 Bill
Why - to fund extensive disability services

What I struggle to understand:

Why is the tax payer funding it (average income of $70 000 to pay around 96 cents per day) -another tax??
Is our current system of disability service in that much of a dire state that this level of immediate funding is required.
Why such a huge amount given the size of the target audience?
Are there not other areas of service that require just as much attention as disability services ie. mental health, homelessness, current farming situation???
Why is this not being challenging in any real way - is because of the political/delicate nature of the topic?
This can not be a vote buying exercise given the size of the audience vs impact on all tax paying citizens?
Given the new budget deficit what is this not adding to the heartache for the government?

Tears and all from our PM today as she addressed the issue.

Would be interested to hear on others understanding to this topic...

shi thouse said..
1.Why is the tax payer funding it (average income of $70 000 to pay around 96 cents per day) -another tax??
2.is our current system of disability service in that much of a dire state that this level of immediate funding is required.
3.Why such a huge amount given the size of the target audience?
4.Are there not other areas of service that require just as much attention as disability services ie. mental health, homelessness, current farming situation???
5.Why is this not being challenging in any real way - is because of the political/delicate nature of the topic?
6.This can not be a vote buying exercise given the size of the audience vs impact on all tax paying citizens?
7.Given the new budget deficit what is this not adding to the heartache for the government?

8.Tears and all from our PM today as she addressed the issue.

Would be interested to hear on others understanding to this topic...

My 2c. I worked as a carer for disabled as a teenager & at uni (as well as other jobs).

1. Everything is taxpayer funded. Who else?
2. Yes
3. Shi tcosts money. eg electric wheelchair can be over 20k. Gets someone out of house, quality of life immeasurably improved
4. Yes, no, no. Mental Health, homelessness generally linked. Disability often linked too. Most homeless by choice in oz, throwing money wouldn't solve. Farming: free market enterprise,not gov't problem.
5. 50% agree is worthwhile, 50% Libs presenting "no target" ie "hide tony" strategy. Won't be seen as bad guy.
6. Not vote buying. Legacy achievement.
7. Deficit not a problem unless growing for next 10 years. No need to worry now.
8. So?

shi thouse said..

I have been trying to get my head around the NDIS policy and am still struggling to understand why?

Hoping others can shed light on their perspective:

From what I can understand:

Cost - $22 Bill
Why - to fund extensive disability services

What I struggle to understand

It's like this... we have a drunk crackhead whore who doesn't know what budget means let alone manage one with 12 kids getting high off all the charity we give her... in a moment of sobriety the crack whore realizes poor little Johnny is crawling on the floor and really needs a wheelchair. So what does she do? You guessed it she finds the most expensive wheelchair and comes cup in hand pulling on your emotion strings to pay for it.

According to the Australian Oracle (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Latestproducts/4430.0Media%20Release12009?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=4430.0&issue=2009&num=&view=) in 2009 just under 1 in 5 people are disabled... the UN says globally there's some 650million (<10%) people living with a disability... we helped the US to the tune of some $30000000000 make more of them, and the US is projected to spend some $6000000000000 farking up people in just Iraq and Afghanistan (www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/iraq-afghan-wars-to-cost-us-6-trillion/story-fn3dxix6-1226609318728), who will probably get on a boat to Australia so they can get some disability benefit.
Of course the government will charge you for that boat ride one way or another, cos they already had a $4.7 BILLION blowout from boat people this year.

Just a quick snapshot of where your hard earned tax money goes

FlySurfer said..

It's like this... we have a drunk crackhead whore who doesn't know what budget means let alone manage one with 12 kids getting high off all the charity we give her... in a moment of sobriety the crack whore realizes poor little Johnny is crawling on the floor and really needs a wheelchair. So what does she do? You guessed it she finds the most expensive wheelchair and comes cup in hand pulling on your emotion strings to pay for it.

You're a fool, but thanks for sharing your ugly little opinion. It's a real snapshot into the bitter twisted little worldview some people have.

Mods, better take this to Heavy Weather, it's gonna get ugly.

shi thouse said..

NDIS....Insurance??? I ensure my cars and property against the possiblity of damage, how is this an insurance? Why not be obvious about it and call it a tax, which is what it is.

There are already many disability services provided in the community, so will assume this $22B will be on top of what is already spent. Hence this target group is getting this massive injection of funding at the expense of other just as needy areas. Can we then expect that this tax will remain in place as $22B will be needed each year or is this the equivalent of a one off policy that will eventually lead to nothing down the line. Or will there be additional taxes to fund other emotive policies by the PM further down the line?

My issues with the PM using tears is that this has become an emotional policy decison by the PM with limited economic or social considerations given to the impacts or lack thereof of other socially needy groups or about the fact that why we should be paying additional taxes. That said when does this level of additional tax get reigned in. It seems that because it is dealing with people with disabilities that no-one is willing to challenge or contest the throw.

No point argiung with this guy. He shows no empathy, is somehow better at economics that the Govt, derides a vulnerable ''target group'' out of outrage and then has the gall to say that this has been an emoitinal decision by the Govt. well, if you are on planet Earth, you will realise that all of our decisions are informed by emotions. we are not robots devoid of feeling. In fact, empathy, which again is not demonstrated in the above, is a good foundation from which to make decisions on how to treat fellow human beings.

I think that the Govt has made an excellent decision. also, for those who cant see the value in this legislation I would ask - what if your child was disabled? that is the empathy test.

The attitude displayed above saddens me.

Adrian

Read between the lines Adrian, at no-times have I stated that this group of people do not deserve assistance. Empathy or not the objective point I am making is why out of the blue this has become such a focal point of the current governments policy making which then needs to be compensated with an additional tax. Having worked within and managed systems that cater to this group I can understand that there are short-falls. What I fathom to understand is how and why I need to be slugged an additional $365+ tax on top of my current contribution of PAYE, G.S.T, excise tax, carbon tax.......to fit in with the govts up and coming election platform.

If showing no empathy means questioning why this target group deserves additional funding (question on how much is already spent) and wondering why other target groups have been ignored, then so be it. This topic will obviously impact more or less on others depending upon the proximity of the issue.

note to Julia: tears are not necessary to emphasize ones stance on a topic

shi thouse said..
What I fathom to understand is how and why I need to be slugged an additional $365+ tax on top of my current contribution

Because one day this system will support you when you are old and crippled.

I work in Sports administration and have a bit to do with disability support services trying to develop local sports clubs to be inclusive of all people in their community. I have a basic level of understanding of how this is supposed to work.

Everybody in the world has a level of basic requirements that they require to live their daily lives. Back in the old days, 'disability' was seen as a disease with people who had varying disabilities seen as being broken and needing to be fixed. Recently a new term - the 'social model' of disability is in vogue. The social model posits that ?disability? is the result of the interaction between people living with impairments and an environment filled with physical, attitudinal, communication and social barriers.

EG - i need a wheelchair to get around. I have a physical impairment that means i cannot walk. I want to get into that building but cant because it has steps not a ramp, therefore that building is disabling for me. The environment around me is disabling.

The NDIS thing is designed to work like an insurance scheme. Currently if you or i get drunk, drive and crash into a pole, as a result of this i need a chair for the rest of my life, the TAC will cover this for heaps of $$$$$ through people's rego payments. However, if i was born with Cerebal Palsy or had some other congenital 'impairment' (not disability), the current state of play is that there is a multitude of red tape that i need to jump through in order to get access to any equipment or support service that i have a right to in order to live my life - this might take YEARS!!! How is this fair.

The NDIS is supposed to remove this red tape. If i need a particular item (chair) in order to function, i get a quote, present it to the NDIS and then my chair gets funded. No different to getting quotes to get your car fixed after being banged into.

This significant change will help EVERYONE in Australian society over time. As previously stated in this thread. 1:5 people associate as having some type of disability - physical, intellectual, sensory, if you include temporary disabilities this increases (some diseases are classified as temporary disabilities so people battling these would qualify for the NDIS, the clasification of mental illness and the NDIS is still being debated). When we get old and start needing hand rails on either side of the toilet, or frames to walk with, or (touch wood) get MS or Old-timers, or need to make modifications to our houses so we can get in or out - you will be thankful for the NDIS.

At the end of the day, this isnt a lot of cash. $14.3B over 7 years. Roughly $2B per year. 23M people in Aust = approx 4.3M people with disability = approx $434 per person with disability per year. Not much $$ in order to try and live a normal life.

shi thouse said..
note to Julia: tears are not necessary to emphasize ones stance on a topic

3 times you've mentioned that you think she 'used' tears. You're obviously trying to get a bite on that point.

Consider this: she's probably worked a 80-100hr week leading up to that speech. Under more stress than you'll ever feel. Normally tough as nails.

But in the week prior, she met sophie, 12, who has downs syndrome. Sophie insisted on holding her hand for the whole time, and Julia let her. Sophie met her again later in the week and took this photo, which whether you like her or not is a stunning photo of our Prime Minister.



As this story plainly says, it was PM's telling the story of her encounter with Sophie that moved her to tears.
www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/sophies-candid-camera-and-pluck-moves-gillard-to-tears-20130515-2jmv1.html

Now if you take all that in and want to hang onto the idea that is was an act, well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it see the writing on the wall.

They make it sound as if we are helping 1000's of people just like the all the grants to upgrade school facilities.
Problem is they need 4 lots of consultants just to implement who should get what, there goes 1/4 of the money.
Followed by (as an example) purchasing a 20k wheelchair instead of the 5k one that could be locally made.

We will loose out no matter what happens. I watched a school building being demolished only to be rebuilt exactly the same, just so they could use the grant. the same school also had a gardening shed built no bigger than a 2 car garage - cost 74k.

ikw777 said..

^^^ Awesome post.

Agree...nice post Dan, gives a good perspective of the situation.

I was cleaning the air conditioning to the new building and speaking to the principal of the school at the time.
Not trumped up.
She found the grant caused more havoc then being beneficial. Shame really as the where forced to have this done to spruce n up the the school as a pollie was doing a walk through once completed.

Pure 7 and 9 news type garbage to hype up Blighs promises at the time.

lightwood said..

kiteboy dave said..

Libs aren't fighting it for political reasons, but still they are showing contempt by not bothering to show up at all:

So the Greens and independents were there?

*crickets

No, you accused the Libs of contempt. The fact is neither the Greens or and of the independents were in the room either. You know, the people who helped form Government. Jim McDonald's tweet was pathetic and you got sucked in to reposting it.

DanP said..
At the end of the day, this isnt a lot of cash. $14.3B over 7 years. Roughly $2B per year. 23M people in Aust = approx 4.3M people with disability = approx $434 per person with disability per year. Not much $$ in order to try and live a normal life.

This is where I have a problem with it. We will find that the 14 billion cost estimate for this program will quickly blow out to double that, then three times, four times,.. ten times that.
It is a bottomless pit like health insurance has turned out to be simply because, any service which is given for 'free' will be over used by all and sundry because it's there and it's free. More and more people demanding services that they never dreamed of using prior to them being available and more to the point, being FREE.
I think once the sysstem is established you will be amazed at how the number of 'disabled' people blows out and how expensive their disabilitysuddenly becomes. And I think it will include a lot of people who I don't have a lot of sympathy for, such as disabled people whose disability stems from a long abuse of drugs, alcohol, glue sniffing, bad diet, non existent exercise regime, and just plain and simple negligent self care. This is why the health budget is constantly in need of increase and the NDIS will be another trough for snouts to sozzle in.
Before they establish it they need to place careful and strict limits on what it covers and then stick to them. I canconfidently say they will do neither.

And as for the mindless platitude that it will only cost about a dollar a day, it shows that the government still does not realise how the system works and who is paying their wages.
About 50% will pay next to nothing because they pay little or no tax. Some of these will be the same people who make claims on the system.
Another 25% will pay much less than avererage because they pay less than average tax.
The remaining 25% will pay through the nose because they make a reasonable income and declare all of it. They can look forward to contributing about 2000 dollars a year from the levy and normal tax charges.

Scotlands approach to disability services and poverty....

There is plenty of money in Australia, we just need the big tax bludgers like Gina to start pulling their weight. If I can pay 30% so can the rich.