Isn't it sad that in this country you have to ask this question .You are not the only one .Obviously our education system is inequitable and is failing us .

Bongowa said..

We , like everyone else , only want to give our kids the best opportunity for success and happiness and we believe a quality education parenting & family life is crucial , however we.....

There you go, fixed it for you.
Hilly has a very good point.

What state/city/town are you talking about.
Within each there is huge variations & opportunities

Higher quality drugs at a private school.


And parents who are more likely to be OTT

I do believe it depends on the child also. My kids both attended our local State primary (in a good area thankfully) but the high school opportunities were not so good. SO my daughter now attends a Private school locally. She has moved from a average student to a top performer. She has thrived at the school with the better discipline and its the best investment I've made to date.

Another family friend sent his daughter to one of the top performing private girls schools in the state. Fee's are over 4 times more a year, but for her individually it has been a great investment, my daughter i don't think would handle the pressure?

For me i like the idea that if i need to address the school on a issue, i feel, as i pay, i can, although i have not once needed too..

Id say it depends on local schools, and your own kids

What hilly said... from what I've seen private schools won't make your kids turn out any better or worse. The only real benefit is the amount of extracurricular opportunities they might provide and the networking / old boys club opportunities later in life but you only get this with the most prestigious schools and it costs a bomb!

You don't necessarily have to be religious to attend a religious private school, monetary donations are often quite happily accepted with enrolment applications to put your kids higher up the list, interests and skills in music or sports will also help (here in Perth anyway). Note that religious classes are compulsory even for non-religous students.

we've decided to live in a decent area with good public schools, and put the money that would otherwise be spent on school fees into a mortgage and other investments. I hope the investments fund will become a learning leg-up for our kids' financial future, teaching them about money management and investing. Stuff I wish I'd known about when I'd finished school.

top private high schools charge over $20k/yr.. Imagine the kick-start to your adult life if your parents gave you $100k (5yrs x $20k) to invest! ie attend public school instead of private..

Good luck with your decision!

evlPanda said..
The only thing private schools can offer (I went to both) that a generic public school can't is other students that are under pressure to perform because they are at private school. Selective schools do this one better.

The schools themselves are not necessarily going to give your child an advantage. Fancy uniforms (dorky), well manicured gardens and an olympic pool with underwater cameras are great, but who really gives a ****?

Does a school with good results get them because of the teachers and environment or does it get them because of the students? It seems insane to pay that much money to go to a school so that they can benefit from your child going there. Think about it!

One could even argue, very convincingly, that all of the above will give your child a disadvantage.

What do you use from high school in life? Not that much. Hell, I do super complex programming on massive (really massive) systems and all I did at high school was 'everyday maths'.

I've thought about this a lot and I'm not sure what good education really is. It has something to do with "first hand knowledge" and being able to teach yourself.

+1 to this!

People who believe that they can take a back-seat in the education of their kids if they go to a private school are sadly mistaken. It's the everyday life issues that kids need guidance in, resilience, perseverance, empathy, work ethic, etc.. those can really only be provided by the involvement of family.

Loftywinds said..
Public or Private is not the issue.
It's the people/staff at the school.
we moved from Melb to Townsville and in a specific zone where we knew from our research the school nearby is one of the best in the state.
it just so happened to be a public state school.
But at the end of the day, your children's education should be a parent's priority and never assume the kids should be taught just by professional teachers alone.
do the reading and maths at home, help out with their homework, take a direct action on their education, and I am sure your kids will excel. If you leave them just to the school's own initiative, they may not come out as well educated as you'd hope.
i also think schools within areas of high unemployement, low socio economic status, and overall street appeal, adds to the woes of your kid's upbringing.

^^ Some good points Loftywinds
I'm also in Townsville, my kids started at Cathederal (private) school and we found both the students and parents very 'clicky', long story short, moved them to public schools and am fairly happy with the change. I only have one boy left in school (Pimlico).
If you don't mind me asking, which school came up the best in your research?

Many thanks to all for sharing your views , opinions and experiences . Many of the views seem to have a common theme regarding "learning and teaching starting at home ".

To answer some of the questions , yes we do live in WA . I have an iinterest in kiting , windsurfing , wake boarding and fishing and am trying my best to get our kids involved in all ! An outdoors lifestyle is one of the great aspects of living in Australia and one that we want our kids to explore if they wish .

This is one of the reasons I am asking the question in the first place I guess . Our kids are a little too young to show a major interest in any particular area this far , but as parents , my wife and I are determined to allow our kids the chance to try as many new things as possible , well as far as the budget will allow of course !

The points raised about access to teachers as well as extra curricular activities is a huge tick in the private column for sure and one that we weren't aware existed at that level .

From my own experience during junior footy and my bmx days , many of the the kids involved were from "middle class " families like myself . They're were some from the "lower class " battler brigade (really great , helpful and caring folk ) and a few from the "upper class " . I remember my folks dropping me off at training and if they dad wasn't coaching that year he would always stay at training and help out . But even back then I remember the upper crew would dump off they're kids at training and the game and not bother to watch or help whatsoever . I guess this has stuck with me and I can't help but feel that many of these parents also feel that enrolling their kids at an elite private school somehow rids them of the need to parent and/or assist in their child's education as some above have mentioned . We truly believe that education starts at home also and is supplemented and moulded at school also .
Is the quality of this "moulding" that a private education can offer worth the price of admission ? Or are we better off to make the move to a better catchment area as I suggested in my original post and backed up above ? I am personally leaning towards the latter way I must say .

Some I'm sure would desire access to a "clicky" and elitist group that would only exist at an elite private school I'm sure , almost using their kids as a tool to achieve entry . These exclusive clubs and the fake , pompous folk they attract are a small but extremely undesirable aspect that always put a large cross in the private column . But I would hope that the values and the grounded parenting style we try to use would allow our kids to see through it if they were confronted by it .
In people's experiences , is there a large percentage of kids attending these schools that almost have a sense of entitlement ? Or like in any environment , is it a small percentage that taint the majority ?

Keeping up with the Joneses has and never will appeal to us .

I'm sure both school types attract ratbags and stoners , crims in the making as well as doctors and teachers of the future . How often do you see the offspring of successful , professional people go off the rails ! And almost as often the offspring of troubled parents rise above and make something of themselves . Does their schooling influence their future to the degree that the massive school fees of a private education would have us believe ? As some have written above , sometimes I guess not !

I'm sure many of the parents reading this post that have gone down the private path and kicked themselves , just like the public parents that wish they could afford the "best" for their kids and have had they're kids come out just fine . Some of you have invested a lot of money in private education and are very happy with the outcome . Have we been let down by the public school system ? After reading all of the posts so far I don't think we have but I would love to hear from others on their experiences so please keep them coming , the advice of like minded water loving folk hold more weight for me than a glossy welcoming brochure ever will ...

bakesy said...
Hey Bongo, I'm assuming you are in WA so with 15 years experience in the profession I'll offer up some advice on the topic. Firstly, the private system as a whole clearly offer more subjects and pathways for students. They do this based on resources/facilities, so ask for a tour and walk around looking at the areas in the school devoted to specialist subject areas such as art, music, technology, sport and science. Your financial investment (fees and "extras") should give your children access to the cutting edge, if not then it's not a good investment. If your child shows signs of interest or ability in these areas you will find that the school will have resources that allow you to give them the support they need to fully explore this interest. It also means you're not sending them all over the place to do this eg If they are into music our school covers this during the day through specialist tutors plus a concert band, ensemble or solo performances after school. It will also see them present a musical each year plus numerous other performing opportunities. The same goes for a number of other interests, my son (Yr9) wanted to try Rugby so he signed up and got excellent coaching, transport to all games, plus the opportunity to compete in Malaysia and QLD. The trip is an added financial cost which was not compulsory but all the other stuff would have cost me 200 plus the fuel burnt driving him around the state to compete! These factors are what should inform your decision, there are many specialist programs in the public system but the private system will offer most of these within their school. The most expensive school in the state is in Wembly Downs, not sure if you have seen the grounds but trust me you can see where your fees go. The next most important thing is access to the staff, if you're paying for an education then you should have easy access to those you employ to deliver this. Where I work we have an open line of communication with parents through a program called SEQTA, this allows parent access to a myriad of information plus direct messaging to all staff. The students have access to us through this and use it to seek clarification on a number of issues. The public system has not embraced this to the same extent, this is good value and our parents/students use it whenever they see fit. The students also have access to tutoring sessions in all subjects, homework clubs, extension groups and a library that stays open until 4.30pm. Hope this helps!

We have SEQTA and our library stays open and we have sport after school. It is a really good school.

Mackerel said..
Very interesting subject. My eldest goes into high school next year and we have been considering the same things. Ideally my wife would like her to go to the same school that she went to, at the cost of $20k or so a year. It only really been the last 12 months or so where my income has even allowed this conversation to happen - 3 kids - imagine the yearly cost....

I went to public school and left by year 10 and in my 30's are able to pay for private education for my kids. My wife went to an elite girls school, did 3 degrees (law being one) and ended up being a stay at home mum, because that is what we felt was best for the family.
My education cost my folks about $1,000 in various books ect.
Her education cost her folks around a $100,000 and her about $45,000 in uni fees.

We both came from very loving, supportive and intelligent families. They were the people that shaped us into decent members of society that we are today. Not schools.

I am very close with my father in law and have discussed our options regarding schooling for the kids with him at length. He is of the opinion that if he could do it all again, he would choose the public system.

I believe that there is too much expectation by private school parents, that the school will teach their kids the right values, manners ect ect. That should not be the school's job - that is a family responsibility.

My kids are going public and I'll happily spend money on the girls choir lessons, violin tuition, netball teams, tee ball teams, dancing, debating, gymnastics and whatever else they decide the want to do. I will be an umpire at tee ball, the guy that sponsors the trophies and uniforms for netball, the dad that drives his girls and their friends to the beach every day to complete their bronze medallion.

Money is important in life, but when it comes to your kids, it should never be used to buy convenience.

Bang on the money there, well said

i went to all private skools (20k per year each kid)
and yet my parents weren't wealthy.
and now am facing this decision for hischool for my kids.
our choices are poor public school in our catchment, move, good catholic high school but hard to get into if not catholic and in catholic system (still a chance) $2k per year (cheap), move to good catchment for good state school, or two private schools 20k+ per year.

We did have a lot of drugs at my private school. There was a lot of snobbery, plenty of rebellion, kids not working etc. From what I can gether the attitude among a lot of the students was quite bad and the party scene pretty wild even compared to other schools. My wife is a teacher and from what I see at her schools (state) the facilities are excellent and so ar e the extra cirricular ativities compared to the private schools (still live in town so can compare)
I think if the kid is going to excell academically they can do it anywhere, and if they aren't high on the academic scale, then being 20k already in the hole already beofre extras means you are less likely to fork out for tuition etc. I never used any of the extra curicular activities. My motivation was always extremely low and I had a bad attitiude.

A state school would be a better microism of society. People from all walks of life. All financial and professional backgrounds. Kids have to learn sometime what they want to be and where they might fit in this. I am concious of where I would like them to be. If my kids go to the state school I plan to spend a bit on any extra tuition and still spend a reasonable amount PA to ensure they go on any trips they want to, extra tuition, reward trips and focus on their personal development. (we'll buy a house in the catchment to get the better state school) but we're gonna try the catholic schools as well.

ps
here's some things I think I could spend some of the 40k per year on that would be far more measureable effect on the kids
Kumon
tutoring
any optional excursions
sports trips
a pool

increasing our own personal situation and having them aspire to have this for themselves (i.e. a family boat in marina)
good family holidays with peers, showing them what having money can provide.
perhaps overseas trips to broaden their horizons. orangutang orphanage. third world country to do some act of charity.
windsurfing, kitesurfing, scuba etc focusing on their personal enjoyment of life and their attitude and personal
with attitude will come all other things..

I went to a public school but chose to work part time just so we could afford a private school for our kids. It was approx $10k per child per year but money well spent I reckon. Neither child was particularly academic but they had to toe the line, and that's what was important to us. They had to use their manners and simply had to turn up every day looking immaculate, unlike our local public school where some of them looked like they belonged to a bikie gang. Most of the families were normal middle class families like us - yes there were a few rich toffee noses but in general they were all hard working normal families. If there were students who showed a natural ability in something, whether it be academic, sport, or the arts, they were encouraged more than the students that went to my public school - perhaps it is different these days? I also felt that because we were paying good money to be there, we had more of a say in how things were done.

I have my kids in public because I cant afford private but the public has failed us sometimes. Not all private schools are great either. I myself have been educated in both and regret public education as I grew up in a rough area. Honestly it has alot to do with the area, the principal and word of mouth. If the public in your area is great go with it. At the end of the day, how educated your kid will be is up to you to, as im sure you will make sure your kids learn what they need regardless of public or private.