Rain,,,run or walk???

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lotofwind
lotofwind
NSW
6451 posts
NSW, 6451 posts
16 Oct 2010 12:41am
Just walked back from the pub after a couple and it started pissteling down rain,
All of us started sprinting the last 50m to get home so as not to get drenched.
One of the crew walked the 50 meters at normal walking pace.
He told us that if you run,more rain drops hit you front on as you run into them and you get wetter than if you walk.??????
Started a big argument on who was right or wrong.
I know all of you seabreezers are really smart and wise and might be able to bring some peace to this argument which got out of hand and could end up in a war between all nations bigger than any religious war we have ever seen in history.
It has even turned into a bigger argument than last friday nights, what came first,
the chicken or the egg.
or maybe I should stop going to the pub on fridays when its raining???

elmo
elmo
WA
8894 posts
WA, 8894 posts
15 Oct 2010 9:43pm
Look at the Myth busters archives
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
16 Oct 2010 12:54am
The answer is to have an umbrella. It keeps the rain off and you can hit people with it who disagree with you.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
15 Oct 2010 9:58pm
I remember Dr Karl Kruszelnicki doing something on this...

After a quick search of my books... I discovered I don't have the right book, which is - New Moments In Science 3: Munching Maggots, Noah's Flood & TV Heart Attacks

So, like Dr Karl Kruszelnicki (sometimes), I don't know... call back next week
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23685 posts
WA, 23685 posts
15 Oct 2010 10:22pm
elmo said...

Look at the Myth busters archives


Why the red thumbs?

They tested it.
Fact.

But facts on here are red thumb magnets at times.
elmo
elmo
WA
8894 posts
WA, 8894 posts
15 Oct 2010 10:38pm
For those to to lazy to look

1st experiments results
Over a hundred yard course, it is better to walk in the rain than run in the rain, if your goal is to not get wet. The difference isn't huge, but over eight trials the running person got wetter.

Revistited
Running in the rain

Myth: do you get wetter running in the rain running instead of walking? (original episode summary)

Error according to the viewers: they didn't use real rain.

New setup: They waited for actual rain and walked/ran around the parking lot in overalls and a hat, with a sweat-barrier rubber suit underneath.
Results

The first attempt done by Adam and Jamie was interrupted by the rain stopping mid-test. They handed off the duties to Tory and Grant, who donned the gear on a rainy day and did a short loop outside. They found that, on average, the runner collected 4g less water than the walker.

confirmed

NOTE: according to this BBC Magazine mathematical analysis by Nick Allen, you get most wet if you run very fast or stay in the rain a very long time. This confirms the original mythbusting and contradicts the results of the revisit.


The Nick Allen Formula
The formal solution looks something like this:


Which looks a bit (Dennis the) menacing. dW/dt is the rate you're getting wet (mass of rain per time incident on your body.) #961; is the density of the rain shower (mass of water in unit volume of atmosphere.) V is the velocity of the rain relative to you, and dA represents a little bit of your body surface. The large "S" shape tells you to add together all the rain falling on these little bits of body surface to calculate the total amount of wetness per time. (Picky note: the summation should only be done over body surfaces facing the rain, or the equation will accidentally calculate "negative" rain that it thinks has passed right through your body.)

The relative velocity of the rain depends on the rain's velocity, and your own velocity. This is where we can introduce the possibility of someone running around in the rain. The relative rain velocity, V, is equal to the true velocity of the rain minus the velocity of your body. We can now put these in the above equation and write:


Where VP is the velocity of the person and VR the velocity of the rain. (They're not the wrong way round, because we dropped the minus sign.)

SO WHAT?

Precisely! The problem with a solution like this, is that although it is designed to be exactly correct, it is far too complicated to be of much use - because it can't easily be calculated.

For a start, the shape of a human body is too complex, and all parts of it are in different states of motion when running. To get some answers the formal solution must be simplified by making some assumptions and approximations. Physicists do this all the time - it is called "cheating".

AN APPROXIMATE SOLUTION

This is where the fun starts. To get some idea of how running around in the rain affects wetness, we'll need to make some fairly significant simplifications.

We will assume that the rain is falling vertically and also that the person is running horizontally. To get around the problem of our complex body shape, we'll imagine our person as a rectangular block - like a house brick standing on end. The smaller top surface of this "brick" is of area a and represents all our own top surfaces (head and shoulders.) The larger front surface of this brick is of area A and represents our front surfaces (chest, stomach, front of arms, front of legs etc.) This approximation won't give us the complete truth - but it might provide some insight into what is going on.

This enables us to produce our first "total wetness" equation. It can be derived from the formal solution above, or worked out by other reasoning. Anyway, here goes:

THE (SIMPLIFIED) TOTAL WETNESS EQUATION


Here W is the "total wetness" (the total mass of rainwater on your body), #961; is the rain shower density as before, a our top surface area and A our front surface area. VR and VP are the velocities of the rain and person respectively and t is the time spent out in the rain.

Looking at the equation, it's clear that there is little we can do about the rain velocity, rain density and the size of our bodies (except by dieting.) The only quantities we can directly control in the total wetness equation are t (the time spent in the rain) and VP (how fast we're running.)

The equation tells us quite clearly that we get most wet if we:

1) stay out in the rain for a long time (no surprise there)
and / or
2) run very fast

So running fast actually makes us wetter according to this analysis - the reason being that you are moving your front surface through the "rain field", scooping up water as you go.

By the way, should you ever want to get really wet, the equation suggests you should stay out in the rain for a long time whilst running around like a maniac.

There's more to it than this though. Although running fast looks like a bad idea, what if we are running towards shelter - surely by running we will minimise the time spent in the rain? This is a fair point, and makes the first equation look incorrect - but in fact it is fine.

This is because the equation "knows" nothing about the possibility of shelter. It simply tells us that if you're in the rain, the best thing to do is stand still. However, we can introduce the idea of shelter into it to get some further advice.

Let's assume that when it starts to rain, you identify the nearest shelter and run towards it. If the distance to the shelter is D, then the time spent in the rain (t in the above equation) will be D/VP.

If we insert this into the "total wetness" equation to replace t, we get the "modified simplified total wetness equation" which now includes the distance to the shelter D:


So here we have it - more mathematical advice to avoid getting wet. Because we divide by VP in this equation, maximising our velocity now emerges as a good idea, assuming there is a shelter available.

SO SHOULD I RUN IN THE RAIN OR NOT?

When it starts to rain, first identify the nearest shelter, and then run to it as quickly as you can.

This is remarkable, because that is precisely what most people do! The power of mathematics has finally given us the reassurance that, when we run for that bus shelter, store canopy or random shop (and start pretending to browse), we are getting it exactly right!

Bad news for Billy Whizz though - the equation shows that you get wet no matter how fast you run, with a minimum value of W = #961;AD.

PS: If the rain is falling at an angle it is possible to decrease your total wetness by running in the correct direction. Unfortunately this may not coincide with the nearest shelter direction. If you are worried about this, we may be able to deal with it in a further instalment.

PPS: Alternatively, ignore the maths and get an umbrella.

Nick Allen is a Master of Science in astrophysics and a fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society. An entrepreneur and inventor, he was also co-developer of MouseCage, a disability software www.mousecage.org. Nick continues to teach physics to advanced students at Valentine's High School, Ilford.
Mister Dugong
Mister Dugong
368 posts
368 posts
15 Oct 2010 10:56pm
^^^^
That was great, I cant beleive that I now know an equation for figuring out amounts of wetness over time!!!!
busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
15 Oct 2010 11:16pm
Stay at the rain and wait for the pub to stop

Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23685 posts
WA, 23685 posts
15 Oct 2010 11:22pm
wotzy77 said...

^^^^
That was great, I cant beleive that I now know an equation for figuring out amounts of wetness over time!!!!


Yeah but the retards just red thumb it

(I evened it up for ya Elmo)
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
15 Oct 2010 11:31pm
WGAF, the question should be,why did you leave the pub
j murray
j murray
SA
947 posts
SA, 947 posts
16 Oct 2010 10:19am

Geessssssss ELMO !!! you can really talk when you get

wet enough!!!! [}:)]
theDoctor
theDoctor
NSW
5786 posts
NSW, 5786 posts
16 Oct 2010 12:38pm
Mark _australia said...

elmo said...

Look at the Myth busters archives


Why the red thumbs?

They tested it.
Fact.

But facts on here are red thumb magnets at times.



just ask petermac33
shannon8888
shannon8888
NSW
517 posts
NSW, 517 posts
18 Oct 2010 3:11am
elmo said...

For those to to lazy to look

1st experiments results
Over a hundred yard course, it is better to walk in the rain than run in the rain, if your goal is to not get wet. The difference isn't huge, but over eight trials the running person got wetter.

Revistited
Running in the rain

Myth: do you get wetter running in the rain running instead of walking? (original episode summary)

Error according to the viewers: they didn't use real rain.

New setup: They waited for actual rain and walked/ran around the parking lot in overalls and a hat, with a sweat-barrier rubber suit underneath.
Results

The first attempt done by Adam and Jamie was interrupted by the rain stopping mid-test. They handed off the duties to Tory and Grant, who donned the gear on a rainy day and did a short loop outside. They found that, on average, the runner collected 4g less water than the walker.

confirmed

NOTE: according to this BBC Magazine mathematical analysis by Nick Allen, you get most wet if you run very fast or stay in the rain a very long time. This confirms the original mythbusting and contradicts the results of the revisit.


The Nick Allen Formula
The formal solution looks something like this:


Which looks a bit (Dennis the) menacing. dW/dt is the rate you're getting wet (mass of rain per time incident on your body.) #961; is the density of the rain shower (mass of water in unit volume of atmosphere.) V is the velocity of the rain relative to you, and dA represents a little bit of your body surface. The large "S" shape tells you to add together all the rain falling on these little bits of body surface to calculate the total amount of wetness per time. (Picky note: the summation should only be done over body surfaces facing the rain, or the equation will accidentally calculate "negative" rain that it thinks has passed right through your body.)

The relative velocity of the rain depends on the rain's velocity, and your own velocity. This is where we can introduce the possibility of someone running around in the rain. The relative rain velocity, V, is equal to the true velocity of the rain minus the velocity of your body. We can now put these in the above equation and write:


Where VP is the velocity of the person and VR the velocity of the rain. (They're not the wrong way round, because we dropped the minus sign.)

SO WHAT?

Precisely! The problem with a solution like this, is that although it is designed to be exactly correct, it is far too complicated to be of much use - because it can't easily be calculated.

For a start, the shape of a human body is too complex, and all parts of it are in different states of motion when running. To get some answers the formal solution must be simplified by making some assumptions and approximations. Physicists do this all the time - it is called "cheating".

AN APPROXIMATE SOLUTION

This is where the fun starts. To get some idea of how running around in the rain affects wetness, we'll need to make some fairly significant simplifications.

We will assume that the rain is falling vertically and also that the person is running horizontally. To get around the problem of our complex body shape, we'll imagine our person as a rectangular block - like a house brick standing on end. The smaller top surface of this "brick" is of area a and represents all our own top surfaces (head and shoulders.) The larger front surface of this brick is of area A and represents our front surfaces (chest, stomach, front of arms, front of legs etc.) This approximation won't give us the complete truth - but it might provide some insight into what is going on.

This enables us to produce our first "total wetness" equation. It can be derived from the formal solution above, or worked out by other reasoning. Anyway, here goes:

THE (SIMPLIFIED) TOTAL WETNESS EQUATION


Here W is the "total wetness" (the total mass of rainwater on your body), #961; is the rain shower density as before, a our top surface area and A our front surface area. VR and VP are the velocities of the rain and person respectively and t is the time spent out in the rain.

Looking at the equation, it's clear that there is little we can do about the rain velocity, rain density and the size of our bodies (except by dieting.) The only quantities we can directly control in the total wetness equation are t (the time spent in the rain) and VP (how fast we're running.)

The equation tells us quite clearly that we get most wet if we:

1) stay out in the rain for a long time (no surprise there)
and / or
2) run very fast

So running fast actually makes us wetter according to this analysis - the reason being that you are moving your front surface through the "rain field", scooping up water as you go.

By the way, should you ever want to get really wet, the equation suggests you should stay out in the rain for a long time whilst running around like a maniac.

There's more to it than this though. Although running fast looks like a bad idea, what if we are running towards shelter - surely by running we will minimise the time spent in the rain? This is a fair point, and makes the first equation look incorrect - but in fact it is fine.

This is because the equation "knows" nothing about the possibility of shelter. It simply tells us that if you're in the rain, the best thing to do is stand still. However, we can introduce the idea of shelter into it to get some further advice.

Let's assume that when it starts to rain, you identify the nearest shelter and run towards it. If the distance to the shelter is D, then the time spent in the rain (t in the above equation) will be D/VP.

If we insert this into the "total wetness" equation to replace t, we get the "modified simplified total wetness equation" which now includes the distance to the shelter D:


So here we have it - more mathematical advice to avoid getting wet. Because we divide by VP in this equation, maximising our velocity now emerges as a good idea, assuming there is a shelter available.

SO SHOULD I RUN IN THE RAIN OR NOT?

When it starts to rain, first identify the nearest shelter, and then run to it as quickly as you can.

This is remarkable, because that is precisely what most people do! The power of mathematics has finally given us the reassurance that, when we run for that bus shelter, store canopy or random shop (and start pretending to browse), we are getting it exactly right!

Bad news for Billy Whizz though - the equation shows that you get wet no matter how fast you run, with a minimum value of W = #961;AD.

PS: If the rain is falling at an angle it is possible to decrease your total wetness by running in the correct direction. Unfortunately this may not coincide with the nearest shelter direction. If you are worried about this, we may be able to deal with it in a further instalment.

PPS: Alternatively, ignore the maths and get an umbrella.

Nick Allen is a Master of Science in astrophysics and a fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society. An entrepreneur and inventor, he was also co-developer of MouseCage, a disability software www.mousecage.org. Nick continues to teach physics to advanced students at Valentine's High School, Ilford.


just get out of the rain before you catch a cold and some people don't have to imagine there shaped like a house brick
russh
russh
SA
3027 posts
SA, 3027 posts
19 Oct 2010 4:02pm
Do a Bear Grills and Run home naked with ya clothes in a plastic bag If ya lucky ya might get a a lift in a paddy wagon for free
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