i've stepped in a few times over the years with different things. not always the most intelegent thing to do. but sometimes it needs to be done. people should stand up for what they believe in and help other out.

last time was when i happened to witness a domestic violence situation unfolding in a car in a back street. i was walking from the bakery back to my car when i spyed what was going on.

there was a lot of anger from the bloke. i decided to just make my presence felt rather than directly get involved as i didn't want to inlame the situation. i kept thinking if it was my daughter or friend i'd hope someone else tried to make a difference.

You get a green thumb for correct use of the word "persons". Very rare to see it done well

Also the NSW/Sydney train culture is a bit different to elsewhere... I doubt you'd ever see that amount of reticence in 'stepping up' in, say, Brisbane or Perth.

But well done in bucking the trend. The poor guy probably just didn't understand why the train wasn't moving, and why no-one would listen to him...

choco said...

, i see it all too often on the news innocent bystanders getting involved and end up with a blade in their guts,if your confident with your fighting abilities then go for it otherwise call the police.

Choco - I'm not a fighter - but I also dont watch the news - well the tabloid versions at least - I did consider this as one of the reasons why people dont act in situations like this

Nebs - my father was a school teacher - 'nough said

i went for a late night pizza last month in Gosnells fri night 3am.

the Indian owner had a massive black eye.

at around 9 o'clock he heard a fight outside on Albany Hwy, about 40 metres from shop.

around 30 young guys beating nearly to death a 35y old.

the 4 staff ran outside to stop the beating ,the owner got hit with a piece of steel in the eye,suffered no permanent damage.

the kids ran away,the police not charging anyone.


a few years ago, i left my car parked at Mcdonalds Vic.Park

on returning after midnight, my car window was smashed in and contents spread everywhere.

a large group of 20/30 kids were hanging out on the road next to Mcdonalds where i had parked.

it was pretty obvious what had happened.

on driving away, i sped up,crossed the other side of road, put horn on and scared them bigtime. [my comeback]

i drove away fast.

standing up for yourself is ok ,if you are sure you can get away unharmed.

What's a 'cereal killer'?

cereal killers eat my cornflakes. EDIT: beaten to it:)

PS seems to me that the wisest decision in this situation was made by the mental health professionals with 40 years combined experience.

heat of the moment isn't an ideal time to set someone straight, or teach them a lesson. Seems to me that you and your families safety would be best served by avoiding, de escalating or not escalating the situation and then talking with the kids later to explain why you chose the safest path.

I really don't think you are 'standing up for yourself' if you addressed this situation by confronting the dude. Your morals and beliefs tell you what the guy is doing is wrong, and its likely that you are really 'standing up' for these beliefs. So standing up to the guy may end in you having to become involved in violence which to most people is worse than verbal abuse. Best way to stand up for your beliefs imo is to model them, not try impose them on others.

i'm sure people all had different reasons for not responding. Keep in mind that there are plenty of times where even speaking very calmly and politely (let alone assertively) can actually very quickly escalate a situation.

IMO, best time to speak your mind and be assertive is when its not likely to end in endangering someones personal safety.

Glad it worked out ok for ya.

Smedg said...

cereal killers eat my cornflakes. EDIT: beaten to it:)

PS seems to me that the wisest decision in this situation was made by the mental health professionals with 40 years combined experience.

heat of the moment isn't an ideal time to set someone straight, or teach them a lesson. Seems to me that you and your families safety would be best served by avoiding, de escalating or not escalating the situation and then talking with the kids later to explain why you chose the safest path.

I really don't think you are 'standing up for yourself' if you addressed this situation by confronting the dude. Your morals and beliefs tell you what the guy is doing is wrong, and its likely that you are really 'standing up' for these beliefs. So standing up to the guy may end in you having to become involved in violence which to most people is worse than verbal abuse. Best way to stand up for your beliefs imo is to model them, not try impose them on others.

i'm sure people all had different reasons for not responding. Keep in mind that there are plenty of times where even speaking very calmly and politely (let alone assertively) can actually very quickly escalate a situation.

IMO, best time to speak your mind and be assertive is when its not likely to end in endangering someones personal safety.

Glad it worked out ok for ya.

Disagree.
How many less coppers, emergency dept staff and so on woudl we need if those who did not conform to society's norms were always verbally taken down by everyone.
Like seriously, if 90% of people in that train station went to himp and said shut up, what's he going to do? Nothing - bearing in mind we are talking here about almost everyone doing it, all the time at all incidents liek this, so he would have been confronted previously about his behaviour.

For example, it is beyond me how streets with 20 or more houses live in fear of the teenage kids at ONE house in that street, and ring Today Tonight about how bad it is.

I've seen a guy run down a bag snatcher, gutless wanker took a handbag off a granny. When one guy tackled him and the crook wanted to box on, a group of 20 - 25 y/o males just watched. Give the guy a hand!!! (the good samaritan that is, not the crook )

We have the society we deserve when the apathetic 'somebody else will deal with it' attitude prevails.

Smedg said...
[PS seems to me that the wisest decision in this situation was made by the mental health professionals with 40 years combined experience.

heat of the moment isn't an ideal time to set someone straight,

. Your morals and beliefs tell you what the guy is doing is wrong, and its likely that you are really 'standing up' for these beliefs. So standing up to the guy may end in you having to become involved in violence which to most people is worse than verbal abuse. Best way to stand up for your beliefs imo is to model them, not try impose them on others. "

Fair point Smedge

There seems to be a consistent assertion that the situation may have escalated to violence and or there was a heated exchange - hardly from my point, i was holding on to 2 kids and i am used to robust exchanges without malice - but I acknowledge old mates brain may not have sen the situation the same way

It seems the consistent motivator is fear - sorry guys that makes me sad

Mark _australia said...

Smedg said...

cereal killers eat my cornflakes. EDIT: beaten to it:)

PS seems to me that the wisest decision in this situation was made by the mental health professionals with 40 years combined experience.

heat of the moment isn't an ideal time to set someone straight, or teach them a lesson. Seems to me that you and your families safety would be best served by avoiding, de escalating or not escalating the situation and then talking with the kids later to explain why you chose the safest path.

I really don't think you are 'standing up for yourself' if you addressed this situation by confronting the dude. Your morals and beliefs tell you what the guy is doing is wrong, and its likely that you are really 'standing up' for these beliefs. So standing up to the guy may end in you having to become involved in violence which to most people is worse than verbal abuse. Best way to stand up for your beliefs imo is to model them, not try impose them on others.

i'm sure people all had different reasons for not responding. Keep in mind that there are plenty of times where even speaking very calmly and politely (let alone assertively) can actually very quickly escalate a situation.

IMO, best time to speak your mind and be assertive is when its not likely to end in endangering someones personal safety.

Glad it worked out ok for ya.

Disagree.
How many less coppers, emergency dept staff and so on woudl we need if those who did not conform to society's norms were always verbally taken down by everyone.
Like seriously, if 90% of people in that train station went to himp and said shut up, what's he going to do? Nothing - bearing in mind we are talking here about almost everyone doing it, all the time at all incidents liek this, so he would have been confronted previously about his behaviour.

For example, it is beyond me how streets with 20 or more houses live in fear of the teenage kids at ONE house in that street, and ring Today Tonight about how bad it is.

I've seen a guy run down a bag snatcher, gutless wanker took a handbag off a granny. When one guy tackled him and the crook wanted to box on, a group of 20 - 25 y/o males just watched. Give the guy a hand!!! (the good samaritan that is, not the crook )

We have the society we deserve when the apathetic 'somebody else will deal with it' attitude prevails.

Mark I think its completely ignorant to think that less emergency services would be needed if more or all people stepped up.....

The guy being talked about has at some time before in his life been told that bad language is inappropriate. IE He has been told before that this behaviour is unacceptable. There is a chance that telling him to pull his head in would be enough to moderate his behaviour. There is also a chance that it will escalate the situation. Suggesting that having more people address the guy together like some kind of united front for the 'greater good' (haha quote from hot fuzz) would result in him doing nothing, is likely to be the case if the guy is thinking logically enough to be able to pull his head in. So, its a judgement call that is always a gamble. If someone is already angry or stressed, it highly likely that more people involved will only further escalate anxiety and lead to more extreame and less logical responses.

I'm comfortable that my responses in these type of situations are based on sound moral and statistical judgements. Not fear as has been suggested.

Happy to say I wasn't there and so can't pretend to have a clue what reaction would lead to what outcome. I do rate myself a bit as far as reading tricky/ tense/ angry situations and choosing actions most likely to result in non violent outcomes.

Saying i wasn't there, I reckon it might be a reasonably safe bet that the guy doing the yelling isn't going to learn a life long life changing lesson there and then about the appropriate use of language by being told to shut up by one or many.

The nutters alway seem to pick me out of a crowd and generally Ive got nuthing.

I hate to argue (unless its here) and it seems that when I am picked on my mind is not with whats going on around me then I have to deal with some nutter that I dont even know.

Bloody happened at a meeting I was at happily chatting away about club events ect then sum drunk prick comes in and starts having a go at me, not the rest of the guys sitting there just me! The more I ignored him the worse it got.

I just got walked out side he followed me then I turned around went back in and locked the door. I had nothing verbal to give back to him and didnt want speak anyway, I hate that sh!t!!!!

When the f_ck did this guy become "mentally ill"? These threads lose track pretty quick when a few careless statements are thrown in. Am I mentally ill for swearing? Fook, 1/2 of Brisbane is mentally ill if they follow the Lions and watched Saturday nights game.

Ben555, points for standing up for yourself, your bride and your kids.

Scene 1:

Kid, geeky looking getting it full frontal on a packed Camberwell Train out to Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne... just getting picked by 5 guys (swearing physical pushing, you name it). We stay quiet (me, a mate and 3 chicks).

Train pulls into station and he's dragged of the train. Everyone just sits stunned. We're off the train and into it down the platform, tell the train guard to call the police... what's he do? F_cks off. C_nt.

Train pulls out and we're now standing on a platform with a kid in tears, 5 guys looking for some action, and 2 guys who ended up there because of "instinct". We were lucky, didn't wait for it to escalate, took out two knees and put two guys onto the tracks. 1.5 metre drop will make you rethink getting up on the platform again. We fecken legged it up the platform and got the kid in a cab home.

Only time I have had to use violence.

Scene 2

This guy is going spare (just running, and staying he needs a f_cken cab) at a taxi rank. Trying to jump lines, trying to get a cab. Ends up getting snotted by someone and having a couple of guys sit on his chest.

Should I step in? Why? the situation is under control isn't it? No, it f_cking isn't.

The guy is in tears going redder and redder. We get these guy off him and drag him up out of the way. He wants a cab because he has to get home. Something about his daughter. Just rambling saying he's got to get home. We get his wallet and give him our cab 10 minutes later. Made sure he was OK to travel and explained it to the cabbie. Amex and Diners in his wallet says he's OK. My business card in his top pocket.

4 days later flowers and a thank you from his wife. Turns out the 6 yo had a fit and cracked just behind her ear on a set of drawers. Ambo, hospital, the whole box of tricks.

I'm 6' 4" and 110kg fighting weight. That alone has attracted some unwanted attention over the years. My kids both do Tae Kwon Do (6 and 4) purely because I think it is the best "defence" martial art there is. I have a military background and leaves me in alright stead, but I have only thrown one punch in 12 years. Every other confrontation was handled with calm words and a steady presence.

Yeah the media reports everything that goes wrong because it makes good news. I still believe there are enough "men" in the world to stand up and make a difference.

Stay safe all,

LT..

Ive gotta agree with Mark on this although sometimes (maybe a lot) discretion is the smarter option.
But when you just see complete wankers bullying people sometimes it just happens, stepping in I mean.
Couple of years ago I was walking to the local shops and watched as a couple of your garden variety arse crack showing, pants around their knees and cap on sideways tough teenage peanuts walked diagonally across a roundabout as an older couple cautiously approached in their car. Obviously intimidated they slowed and smartly waited until the heroes finished their crossing. Sensing they had the upper hand the ringleader started lobbing twisties onto the bonnet and windscreen of the elderly couples car. Stupid me saw red!!!!
I strode across the road and just kicked this creep fair up the arse. This was what we copped as kids from cops etc if you did the wrong thing. It worked on us let me tell you!!
The look of shock, outrage and sheer incomprehension on this dickheads face was worth it. As most bullies go he didnt know what to do. I just stood there and waited for his mates to do something. Nothing except a lot of mumbling.
Still pissed off I asked if anyone wanted to say anything as I told them they were real tough for picking on a very scared old couple. No 1 hero (who was still holding his backside) said he would get his old man. Stupid me told him to not let fear hold him back. In the end they skulked off, the old couple thanked me and drove off.
When I got back to the footpath I realised there were probably about 10 people just looking at me in either confusion or "what were you doing?" I realised how stupid I had been. These days who knows what these idiots will do especially in a pack mentality!!
But sometimes you just have to do the right thing even if its not smart after the fact!!

why don't other people step up? Is the obvious answer because old mate could just have just as easily come at you with a knife or a blood filled syringe. or he could have beat the **** out of you?

good on you though. id like to think i would do the same.

The agressors target some people over others.

www.protectivestrategies.com/victim-selection.html

Cut and pasted From the website:

"The Grayson/Stein Study

In 1984 two researchers, Betty Grayson and Morris I. Stein, conducted a study to determine the selection criteria applied by predators when selecting their victims. They videotaped several pedestrians on a busy New York City sidewalk without their knowledge.

They later showed the tape to convicts who were incarcerated for violent offenses (rape, murder, robbery, etc.) They instructed them to identify people on the tape who would make easy or desirable victims. The results were interesting.

Within seven seconds, the participants made their selections. What baffled researchers was the consistency of the people that were selected as victims. The criteria were not readily apparent. Some small, slightly built women were passed over. Some large men were selected. The selection was not dependant on race, age, size or gender.

Even the convicts didn't know exactly why they selected as they did. Some people just looked like easy targets. It appears that much of the predator/prey selection process is unconscious from the perspective of both predator and the potential victim."

Situation * Manly ferry mid evening , Elderly gent travelling with his wife ,
Passenger on board sitting near aforementioned elderly couple with his companion ,
Elderly gent takes exception to much younger fitter passenger using swear language , asks him to tone it down
Much younger fittter passenger takes it as an offence and goes about beating the much older gent into a pulp and punched him down a flight of stairs , No fuss crew of 3 alerted to the assault taking place onboard and overcome and restrain the guy until the vessel can be berthed and police arrive approx 15 mins . First aid is given to the now comatose older gent and he is comforted until being collected by ambulance and taken to hospital for treatment ,
Much younger fitter other passenger is charged and bailed to appear in court , in sentencing the Honourable judge takes into consideration the fact that the offender was in fact a successful amatuer BOXER had there not been a group on board to step up for the elderly gent in this case the ferry crew , then the BOXER may have been tried for murder
Recent history of trained fighters taking on weaker vulnerable people is full of examples , who remembers David hookes for 1 , tried to talk through a sensitive situation , You cannot predict what may be the outcome be careful which way you turn There wont always be someone on hand to step up for you