This article is interesting. Basically says truck industry can't run on electricity...

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/hydrogen-not-the-answer-ford-20120706-21ljc.html

I still think we need to adjust to Micro Electric Cars, and Ultra Light Vehicles, and probably 3 star crash ratings.

In Tokyo / Yokohama, the 1st vehicle for the family is probably an Electric Assist Bicycle, the 2nd, a normal bike, and the 3rd, a pram. (Plus the ultra frequent train network).

Most trucks in Thailand for example run on LPG. Look kind of scary though with 6 big gas cylinders behind the cab.

I was thinking when I seen them if they might one day carry Hydrogen and blow up half of the country with an accident.

No problems to the Thai's though. Not a silly thing to do just destiny as per Buddha.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that electric vehicles have serious limitations.
The future is fossil fuels, specifically natural gas.
Unless we are allowed to build massive amounts of nuclear power plants energy will always be expensive and 100 years from now we will still be burning oil and gas for energy.

log man said...

Beaglebuddy said...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that electric vehicles have serious limitations.
The future is fossil fuels, specifically natural gas.
Unless we are allowed to build massive amounts of nuclear power plants energy will always be expensive and 100 years from now we will still be burning oil and gas for energy.

Your "allowed" to build them, but no one want's to cause they're so expensive to build and the generated power is too high priced.

"the future is fossil fuels".....Really?....no Really!

Do you think that they'll be any oil in 100 years?.....well, will there be oil that doesn't cost thousands of dollars per barrel?.

Try and build a plant and the lawyers and pressure groups will have you dead in the water.
Do some research and you will see that there are plenty of fossil fuels in the ground still untapped, and it is common knowledge that an oil well that has run dry will produce oil again after it has been left alone for a while.
Only the easy to get stuff is being used now, artesian wells that spout oil and gas all by themselves without even pumping, it will just get a bit harder to get out of the ground.

Beaglebuddy said...

log man said...

Beaglebuddy said...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that electric vehicles have serious limitations.
The future is fossil fuels, specifically natural gas.
Unless we are allowed to build massive amounts of nuclear power plants energy will always be expensive and 100 years from now we will still be burning oil and gas for energy.

Your "allowed" to build them, but no one want's to cause they're so expensive to build and the generated power is too high priced.

"the future is fossil fuels".....Really?....no Really!


Do you think that they'll be any oil in 100 years?.....well, will there be oil that doesn't cost thousands of dollars per barrel?.

Try and build a plant and the lawyers and pressure groups will have you dead in the water.
Do some research and you will see that there are plenty of fossil fuels in the ground still untapped, and it is common knowledge that an oil well that has run dry will produce oil again after it has been left alone for a while.
Only the easy to get stuff is being used now, artesian wells that spout oil and gas all by themselves without even pumping, it will just get a bit harder to get out of the ground.

Hey Beagle B , you blokes over there may have to stop driving around in F 650 pickups though !!

Why are electric motors no good for trucks while plenty of trains use electricity, either diesel electric or fully electric? I'm not an electrical engineer so am not sure.

I agree that hydrogen is not a fuel for the future. It takes a fair bit of energy to make hydrogen and it would be difficult to store and transport the gas around.


Found an interesting article about peak oil here. This is from a bloke who was convinced it was happening.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/02/peak-oil-we-we-wrong

The idea of making fuel from bacteria is pretty interesting. However its probable hydrocarbons pumped up out of the ground will be reasonably priced for a long time to come.

Alternative fuels will struggle.

Australia has heaps of petroleum gas that can be liquified. We should run all our cars as much as possible on the stuff. LPG should be a lot cheaper too.

Mobydisc said...

Why are electric motors no good for trucks while plenty of trains use electricity, either diesel electric or fully electric? I'm not an electrical engineer so am not sure.

Trains are connected directly to the power grid thru the third rail or overhead wires, trucks need a battery to store the electricity and they have not been able to come up with good affordable batteries despite throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at the problem.

Bio-Diesel - made from 2nd & 3rd grade / cast aside oilseed varieties the likes of : Canola , Linseed , Rapeseed etc
We have the capacity to grow more of these varieties here in Aust to sustain something viable
There's less soap by-product from the purer stock of the above compared to waste oil from Fast Food outlets which have carbon deposits too.

Ethanol - we haven't got it as yet in WA at S/Stns & again we have the capacity to grow more cane to sustain.

Mobydisc said...

Why are electric motors no good for trucks while plenty of trains use electricity, either diesel electric or fully electric? I'm not an electrical engineer so am not sure.

Moby, Diesel electric has a small issue, compared to diesel via gearbox power to the wheels.
Diesel electric you can have considerable top end speed, and low torque or lots of torque and limited top end speed, all depends on gearing set up.
You can run with a gearbox coupled behind generator/alternator, to the diff, but by then you cost are through the roof and defeat your purpose.
Horses for courses
The development is getting better in this area, but not to the level we need at moment in industry

doggie said...

Synthetic oil, where does that come from?

It comes from the tropical Synthafrangapani plant. They crush it to remove all the waste material, and what you are left with is the raw synthoil.

Some people use it for strange purposes, but otherwise it can be very useful.

Alternatively, they can use normal (ex-dino) oil and do some magic to it to change the chain-length to an ideal range... or something like that.

Not sure where I read it but I believe that there is more oil under Alaska and Nth Canada than there is in the middle east. The powers that be (ie:"they"), believe it is not yet economically viable to extract it at this point in time.

Wait for the price of oil to rise and you can see where the next environmental battle will be.

I have been riding an electric bike for years for commuting . I save around $1500 per year in fuel, I also get more excercise than when i would drive , my car spends most of its life in the shed. I used to be an evangelist and told everyone about how good they are .i have given up .most Aussies would drive to the dunny if they could . My own brother was bitchin about how his once easy commute in the NW of Sydney has now ground to a halt ,Isuggested an e bike .He said that he did not want his company paid car sitting in the garage gathering dust and also said that riding a bike was too dangerous (I asked how could it be dangerous if the traffic was crawling along at 20 km/h) Having said that i generally use side roads (except yesterday i had to use a 100 m stretch of 4 lane road ,a young woman when past in my lane leaving no room and ran me off the road ,I was making good speed too around on a light downhill stretch but she had to pass me .i had the audacity to ride up to her window and suggest that she gives bike riders more room .i was abused and tooted by other drivers who also saw me run off the road by her .)

Simondo said...

If I lived in a Metropolis CBD area, roughly 2-20km to work/home, I would get an Electric Bike. It would get you in there quicker than any other method.

Just making the point that there is a difference between fuel and energy.

dinsdale said...

CANadian Oil Low Acid
It's a hybrid rapeseed plant developed so that the oil is non-toxic. Garden variety rapeseed oil is toxic.

My bad for going off memory not googling it.

Also yes beagle, I was steering off topic with the nuke. Until they make 'Mr Fusion' that is.

Ian K said...

Simondo said...


I still think we need to adjust to Micro Electric Cars, and Ultra Light Vehicles, and probably 3 star crash ratings.

Agreed, the first hurdle is to find alternative status symbols for those that need them......
Crash ratings are size relative. When a 5 star Fantasyland Cruiser collides with a 5 star Yaris, ....

agreed, two problems at least before economical EV hits the streets at mass:
1.Status: since the car is evident extension of our .....
ego.... than now is obvious problem with introducing EV popular that replace SUV but cost less then $10k
2.Elimination of the BIG vehicles - or diverting and segregating the traffic.
I am sure that smallest EV made of carbon fibre and filled with styrofoam and air bags, weighting only few hundreds kg could be made at 10 * in collision with similar vehicle or static object. By comparison nobody test even or require the most expensive limousine or SUV to match the safety in direct collision with rail truck.

3. Very soon vehicle could drive autonomously so need for driver disappear - meaning -the using auto taxi could be much cheaper then owning your vehicle.

www.edmunds.com/car-news/