Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Warranty advice please...

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Created by Jupiter 2 months ago, 11 Jul 2017
Jupiter
2066 posts
11 Jul 2017 11:44AM
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I went through many hoops and ended up back to where it started, so may be some of us had similar problems in the past and hence and shed some lights.

It is to do with a leaky shower caused by incorrect tiling. Water seeped under the tiles and ran up the walls, causing water damage to the wall and hence the paint. In 2007, I engaged a company XXX which is supposed to specialize in fixing showers with this kind of problems.

$495 for each shower, and a piece of paper was issued stating all is good, pressure tested and so on. It has a 15 year warranty on it too ! All good, and I was happy that from then on, I will have such problem eliminated all together.

Today, 10 years later, same problem occurred again. So I dug out the piece of warranty and rang the company if it is going to honour the warranty. Hell no. The company has been sold to a new owner in 2014, and the new owner will not honour the warranty because "...it is now under new ownership" ! Not only that, I will have to pay it to just come and have a look at $125. And on top of that, any work will be charged as per normal. Being a fool twice is what they want me to be.

So I rang the Consumer Protection Department, and was told I have no ground to stand on because the new owner "...can choose NOT to take on the warranty from the previous owner".

Not a person who gives up easily, I rang the Building Commision, and I was left non the wiser.

So are there people who had dealt with such a situation in the past ?

Tamble
20 posts
11 Jul 2017 12:00PM
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Jupiter said..
I went through many hoops and ended up back to where it started, so may be some of us had similar problems in the past and hence and shed some lights.

It is to do with a leaky shower caused by incorrect tiling. Water seeped under the tiles and ran up the walls, causing water damage to the wall and hence the paint. In 2007, I engaged a company XXX which is supposed to specialize in fixing showers with this kind of problems.

$495 for each shower, and a piece of paper was issued stating all is good, pressure tested and so on. It has a 15 year warranty on it too ! All good, and I was happy that from then on, I will have such problem eliminated all together.

Today, 10 years later, same problem occurred again. So I dug out the piece of warranty and rang the company if it is going to honour the warranty. Hell no. The company has been sold to a new owner in 2014, and the new owner will not honour the warranty because "...it is now under new ownership" ! Not only that, I will have to pay it to just come and have a look at $125. And on top of that, any work will be charged as per normal. Being a fool twice is what they want me to be.

So I rang the Consumer Protection Department, and was told I have no ground to stand on because the new owner "...can choose NOT to take on the warranty from the previous owner".

Not a person who gives up easily, I rang the Building Commision, and I was left non the wiser.

So are there people who had dealt with such a situation in the past ?


You use the word "Company".

If a company in the proper sense of that word has an obligation, it continues regardless of who owns the shares.

But if it is actually just a business owned by an individual or now by a different company, the obligation rests with the individual or company which gave the original warranty (if you can find them).

The letterhead should make it clear just who or what you were dealing with.

Jupiter
2066 posts
11 Jul 2017 12:16PM
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Thank you for your reply Tamble. I used the word "company" loosely as all it has is a business name and an ABN Number.

Yes, it was suggested to me that I should chase the original owner for the warranty. Well, a few calls to a lawyer, a few days, probably a few weeks of frustrations which more likely than not will end up with nothing.

I rang up my real estate agent which organized the work in 2007, and explained my problems to them. I also suggested to them to avoid using this mob again to save its clients from future issues like what I am facing now.

WA waverider
WA, 77 posts
11 Jul 2017 1:13PM
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Looks like you have to do the job yourself ,by a tin of tile and shower sealant from Bunnings follow the instructions.You will have to have the shower completely dry.the sealant is clear and easy to apply with a brush and works a treat

Buster fin
WA, 1446 posts
11 Jul 2017 2:23PM
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Consumer Protection are right, the new owners take on the responsibility.....however....

CP are toothless tigers who will not help you. This comes from recent experience.

DIY?

Pugwash
WA, 3642 posts
11 Jul 2017 2:43PM
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Probably not worth the effort to pursue. WA waverider is spot on re a tin of sealant from bunnies... expensive stuff, works really well. Way cheaper than tradies

Looks like you would be covered under the TPA 1974... not the ACL 2010...

www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/products-services-bought-before-2011#services-bought-prior-to-1-january-2011

Gut feel tells me warranty should transfer with business ownership.

Jupiter
2066 posts
11 Jul 2017 3:20PM
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Pugwash said..
Probably not worth the effort to pursue. WA waverider is spot on re a tin of sealant from bunnies... expensive stuff, works really well. Way cheaper than tradies

Looks like you would be covered under the TPA 1974... not the ACL 2010...

www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/products-services-bought-before-2011#services-bought-prior-to-1-january-2011

Gut feel tells me warranty should transfer with business ownership.


Thank you to all the replies. I suspect you and myself are on the right answer, ie. there is f-all I can do about it.

When I spoke to the Building Commission, after trying two other governmental departments, the woman I had on the line was quite an arrogant prick. No telephone manners, and she insisted to interrogate me on the age of my house which is close to 20 years old. But that is not the point as despite the age of the house, the shower was repaired in 2007 with a 15 year warranty. But being a public servant, she didn't understand, or she probably never owned ever own a house anyway. So when she kept on asking me the age of the house, and refuse to first listen to my issue, I hanged up on her. The trouble with mobile phones is that, unlike a landline phone, you just don't get the sound effect of a furious slam down of a phone

I suspect I was being flogged off by the departments as they all said either the law only cover after certain date, or that I have to sue the f-ker. I know it will cost me more to do that, I bet public servants don't understand such intricacy because they have lawyers sitting on their bum twisting their nipples all day.

Regarding the transfer of warranty, that is why consumers are ripped off. One would think when you bought a preexisting business, yuo walked into it with eyes opened. It means you are also buying into problems left behind by the previous mob. It does appear not to be so. You buy the business, clear of all previous responsibilities, and continue trading as if it is the same business. Well, I want to make sure that my real estate agent will not use them again.

In a nutshell, DIY. But I am a long way from it. If not, I wouldn't have to use a real estate agent anyway.

nebbian
WA, 6034 posts
11 Jul 2017 4:06PM
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The power is shifting in favour of the consumer. Make a good video showing the problem, explain who the company is, show that they don't honour their warranty, and post it up. Send the company the link to your video.

youngbull
QLD, 797 posts
11 Jul 2017 6:33PM
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I seriously wish you luck but I think you will have absolutely no luck.
10 years is a long time in bathroom terms.
They will just go round you at every attempt you make.
eg: to much weight on tapes when turning them on/off causing movement over time. House foundation has moved, door not hinged correctly and causing excessive weight on wall..and so on.

Sorry Jupiter but unless you want to spend more cash WA waverider's post is a good option.

Pugwash
WA, 3642 posts
11 Jul 2017 4:37PM
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nebbian said..
The power is shifting in favour of the consumer. Make a good video showing the problem, explain who the company is, show that they don't honour their warranty, and post it up. Send the company the link to your video.


Shifting? Shifted?

The ACL is accessible and easy to read. TV shows have sprung up explaining its application, e.g. The Checkout.

I have used the ACL several times when "negotiating" with suppliers of stuff that has gone wrong e.g. recently, when speaking with a supplier about a piece of cleaning equipment that was not working as intended, they agreed to repair, but suggested it would take some time to diagnose the fault, send over east (love that one in WA), repair the unit, etc... My response, the time for repair has to be reasonable. If it is going to take a long time, I would like you to provide a replacement piece of equipment whilst mine is being repaired... They simply replaced it under warranty...

Jupiter
2066 posts
11 Jul 2017 5:08PM
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nebbian said..
The power is shifting in favour of the consumer. Make a good video showing the problem, explain who the company is, show that they don't honour their warranty, and post it up. Send the company the link to your video.


I am not up to such high-tech dodger busting technique. For a start, I don't have a video camera nor a fast enough Internet to do it.

Furthermore, I am now under attack from probably 4 sides. I am in a hurry to sort out my own house and sell it quickly at whatever I can get after it was cleaned up by some creepie crawlies. Then this bloody warranty issue, then new tenants demands, after I just spent $5,750 to repaint the bloody rental property ! That in combination with the crappy rental market with lower and lower rent. Who said landlords are rip-off merchants ?

But wouldn't there be a nasty side effect if I did that? If I am to name and shame the bugger, they can drag me to the court. I may end up winning as I have the warranty right with me, and it still has 5 years to run. As you know, I am not allowed to put its name here as a respect for your site as well as it may contradict the law ?

I just got the response from the head honcho of the real estate agent. She had placed this company in her "black book". If that means much, the company in question probably lose much more than the $495 I paid !

Jupiter
2066 posts
11 Jul 2017 5:14PM
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youngbull said..
I seriously wish you luck but I think you will have absolutely no luck.
10 years is a long time in bathroom terms.
They will just go round you at every attempt you make.
eg: to much weight on tapes when turning them on/off causing movement over time. House foundation has moved, door not hinged correctly and causing excessive weight on wall..and so on.

Sorry Jupiter but unless you want to spend more cash WA waverider's post is a good option.


I am aware that showers are a f-king pain in the ass as water and mortar don't get along well. Someone actually said that to get 10 years out of the previous work is already an achievement worth a song and dance about

Anyway, I still believe that if a business is prepared to issue a warranty, then it ought to honour it. Why ? Because by issuing a warranty, it is promoting itself over others as an "added advantage". Suckers like myself and many others would fall for it as it will give them an extra "peace of mind". It is just like the "3-year" warranty for a car. You wouldn't buy a car without the warranty.

Mark _australia
WA, 16786 posts
11 Jul 2017 5:45PM
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I had the same issue with West wetsuits.
Forever warranty on seams. Until the company was sold to an idiot incompetent who stuffed up her existing company and then West also. Then West was dumped to some American mob and just closed down.

So loyal consumers can get stiffed.

Agree with Jupiter you went with them due to their long warranty, so fight it tooth and nail.
I don't agree that 10yrs is a long time for a bathroom. IF the tiles leak then there should be sealant under.
I have lived in a number of houses that had no issue after 30yrs so maybe it is a modern product, or application thereof, sort of issue?

Chris6791
WA, 2975 posts
11 Jul 2017 6:00PM
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More likely an older method of waterproofing in an older house which is probably why they were asking how old the house was.

I had this discussion with my builder last week. They used to rely on the tiles to do the waterproofing which is a **** idea. Now the regs have changed and they're supposed to put the full waterproof membrane thingy in.

Mark they probably didn't honour the warranty on the seams when they saw you were trying to stuff yourself into an XL.

kk
WA, 643 posts
11 Jul 2017 6:46PM
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Anyone who thinks these long term warranties are worth the paper they are written on are just kidding themselves.

It is simply a sales pitch to make you feel more comfortable with your purchase, a bit like the 25 year warranties on solar panels, if they start getting even a couple of claims the company will fold and start again using the same trading name.

Bit like extended warranty, really??

PS In WA (not sure where you are) the building commission and consumer affairs are the same department, it a super department full of bureaucrats that haven't a clue or a care so long as they knock off a 4 and get all the entitlements they expect.

PPS 10 years is impressive, you should be happy with that.

actiomax
NSW, 1065 posts
11 Jul 2017 10:03PM
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Jupiter you spent $485 you got 10 yrs out of it .
You have probably wasted more time &time is money than what it cost in the first place .
I imagine that everone you rang would have kept you on hold for at least 40 minutes at a time &you have rang everybody
Sometimes we just got to take it on the chin &cut our loses.
Learn move forwards .
I know it sucks but teally the more ypu pursue it the mote it costs you &the more frustrated you will get
.
My opion let it go not worth the hassel

Marsbars
45 posts
12 Jul 2017 4:46AM
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Yep let it go mate unfortunatley the costs are not worth your time, probably like termite warranty anyway only good if you pay for an annual inspection or something.

cauncy
WA, 5331 posts
12 Jul 2017 6:40AM
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Chris6791 said..
More likely an older method of waterproofing in an older house which is probably why they were asking how old the house was.

I had this discussion with my builder last week. They used to rely on the tiles to do the waterproofing which is a **** idea. Now the regs have changed and they're supposed to put the full waterproof membrane thingy in.

Mark they probably didn't honour the warranty on the seams when they saw you were trying to stuff yourself into an XL.


Some of the new regs are crap chris, 60/70% of my jobs are through piss poor techniques, I know of project builders homes leaking in the first few weeks,
a wet area should be primed, all walls and floors,
all internal corners and wall to floor connections flashed, then 3 good coats of cromellin waterproofing ,
you should be able to fill the room with water without it leaking, a method we call tanking,
here is a current job I'm on, likely to be up to $12/15000 renewal, during rip out I didn't see any evidence of waterproofing




This house ain't that old
with complete rotting of wall frames, also your unable to claim on any insurance for such events

Mark _australia
WA, 16786 posts
12 Jul 2017 10:49AM
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^^ So what's the Builder's Registration Board doing?

Jupiter
2066 posts
12 Jul 2017 11:18AM
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As much as I would like to get an answer which goes my way, I doubt that it will be worth the trouble to waste further time and energy. As "KK" said, the WA consumer Protection and all other government bloody departments are set up just to pretend they actually provide some protection. But in reality, they are just like the 15 year warranty, doing f-all.

Regardless of the age of the house which is about 20 years, the showers were, as per required by my request for repair, maintained to prevent water leakage. Let me put it this way, if the showers are shown to be useless when the mob tried to repair it, they ought to have said so.

I have basically resigned to the fact that it is futile to whip a dead horse. I have written to the mob this morning informing them that they will not be hearing from me again on this issue. However, I also told them that they may not be hearing from other potential customers because my real estate agent had heard my complain, and is black-listing it. So I am having a small win in some self-satisfying way.

Jupiter
2066 posts
12 Jul 2017 11:55AM
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Mark _australia said..
^^ So what's the Builder's Registration Board doing?



I don't believe we have one of those in WA. I checked on Goggle just now. We do have a Building and Construction Commission WA. That was the bloody department which gave me the s**t as that stupid woman kept interrupting me by asking me what age the house is. In my opinion, the age of the house is irrelevant. It can be 100 years old, but if the shower was maintained and repaired, it is as good as new.

I suspect some of these fools never own a house themselves ! Or she was just sick of people like me lodging complains. Some public servants shouldn't be doing what they are doing. They should be on the dole.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
12 Jul 2017 2:56PM
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Jupiter said..

nebbian said..
The power is shifting in favour of the consumer. Make a good video showing the problem, explain who the company is, show that they don't honour their warranty, and post it up. Send the company the link to your video.





But wouldn't there be a nasty side effect if I did that? If I am to name and shame the bugger, they can drag me to the court. I may end up winning as I have the warranty right with me, and it still has 5 years to run. As you know, I am not allowed to put its name here as a respect for your site as well as it may contradict the law ?




I Am Not A Lawyer... but I believe you can't be sued for libel or similar if it's the truth. So if you have a receipt, and the warranty, and you watch your wording, then you can prove that you've only told the truth.

Pugwash
WA, 3642 posts
12 Jul 2017 1:26PM
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kiteboy dave said..

Jupiter said..


nebbian said..
The power is shifting in favour of the consumer. Make a good video showing the problem, explain who the company is, show that they don't honour their warranty, and post it up. Send the company the link to your video.






But wouldn't there be a nasty side effect if I did that? If I am to name and shame the bugger, they can drag me to the court. I may end up winning as I have the warranty right with me, and it still has 5 years to run. As you know, I am not allowed to put its name here as a respect for your site as well as it may contradict the law ?





I Am Not A Lawyer... but I believe you can't be sued for libel or similar if it's the truth. So if you have a receipt, and the warranty, and you watch your wording, then you can prove that you've only told the truth.


Correct... That's one things that stuck with me from law... I distinctly recall my law lecturer repeating a story of a client who was looking to start a defamation case... the first question asked was "are the statements made about you true"?

Jupiter
2066 posts
12 Jul 2017 3:16PM
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kiteboy dave said..

I Am Not A Lawyer... but I believe you can't be sued for libel or similar if it's the truth. So if you have a receipt, and the warranty, and you watch your wording, then you can prove that you've only told the truth.


Your opinion aligned with Pug's. I believe you are right about it. However, please remember that we live in a real world in which the rate of return should be more than the original investment. What I meant is that I will need to spend time and efforts to do that, all in the name to recover $485.

I suppose there is a principle involved here, and it also teaches ass-holes like such will not do similar things to others. But there is an element of revenge which I quite like, but again, for $485 ? As ActiomMax said, it may be better to just walk away and not suffer the continual grudge. Not worth it. On the other hand, if it is more than just $485, say in the thousands, then it is definitely worth it, I reckon.

I spoke with my real estate agent this morning about black-listing this mob, and she said that she had personally dealt with another case of similar nature when a shower repair mob simply disappeared, leaving her clients with a warranty worth zero.

Smithy
VIC, 761 posts
12 Jul 2017 7:50PM
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Jupiter said..

kiteboy dave said..

I Am Not A Lawyer... but I believe you can't be sued for libel or similar if it's the truth. So if you have a receipt, and the warranty, and you watch your wording, then you can prove that you've only told the truth.



Your opinion aligned with Pug's. I believe you are right about it. However, please remember that we live in a real world in which the rate of return should be more than the original investment. What I meant is that I will need to spend time and efforts to do that, all in the name to recover $485.

I suppose there is a principle involved here, and it also teaches ass-holes like such will not do similar things to others. But there is an element of revenge which I quite like, but again, for $485 ? As ActiomMax said, it may be better to just walk away and not suffer the continual grudge. Not worth it. On the other hand, if it is more than just $485, say in the thousands, then it is definitely worth it, I reckon.

I spoke with my real estate agent this morning about black-listing this mob, and she said that she had personally dealt with another case of similar nature when a shower repair mob simply disappeared, leaving her clients with a warranty worth zero.


The warranty provided would be specific to the repair done by the contractor and not the whole shower. It would be difficult to prove or disprove if the current problem is related or not until you peel back the layers and even then difficult.

Even if the original contractor who did the work returned I would suggest the current problem would be found to be unrelated and therefore chargeable.

10 years problem free is a pretty good outcome. If the contractors poor workmanship was to cause problems it would have surfaced years ago. Let it go and move on.

IMHO bagging the new company owner based on a previous owners scruples is unfair and unjust.

cauncy
WA, 5331 posts
12 Jul 2017 7:05PM
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Mark _australia said..
^^ So what's the Builder's Registration Board doing?



F all , same as new energy regs, it's ok to implement but nobody is there to check , won't name names but 2 leading Midwest project builders built close to me, no cavity insulation, no , anticon under tin, and client said no insulation was applied in ceiling space, standard glass, no eave overhang, dark bricks
a f.....g sweat box

Chris6791
WA, 2975 posts
12 Jul 2017 7:13PM
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cauncy said..

Mark _australia said..
^^ So what's the Builder's Registration Board doing?




F all , same as new energy regs, it's ok to implement but nobody is there to check , won't name names but 2 leading Midwest project builders built close to me, no cavity insulation, no , anticon under tin, and client said no insulation was applied in ceiling space, standard glass, no eave overhang, dark bricks
a f.....g sweat box


I'd pay for an independent energy rating assessment (I can't remember what they're called) and if it doesn't comply hit the builder with it. I'd be stunned if they could build a house like that and it be compliant.

Mark _australia
WA, 16786 posts
12 Jul 2017 7:29PM
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OK we used to have the BRB, they had investigators so that would imply some sort of enforcement or rules and removal of dodgy knobs

Maybe the disposable society we accept by our lack of action has finally caved in to big business...

kk
WA, 643 posts
12 Jul 2017 7:31PM
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OK so the builders registration board is gone, in WA at least, it was a relatively small affair at a guess it had less that 40 staff and was probably somewhat underfunded by registration fees, but I thought it was at least somewhat genuine even though like all such things in favor of where the money came from.

Then for some reason the government turned it into a full on Government department, in the beginning all they did was send a dozen emails a week with all the new changes they were making, now they do just about nothing I think? I reckon they probably take up 3 floors of a CBD highrise now but really wouldn't have a clue...

As for checking on completed buildings!!!!! If it's on the drawings that all is that matters, after that there is no checking and as far I know the Government department won't help. You would have to take action in the courts with your own money. I am a builder (industrial/commercial) and the main thing they check is parking bays and the disabled toilet. No wonder so many companies cheat.
Never ever has an inspector even looked inside a ceiling on any of my jobs.

gdownie
NSW, 79 posts
13 Jul 2017 1:12PM
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Hey i had the same thing happen to our 2 year old house built by Toscan homes here in coffs.
Builder was hopless and so was forman.
ended up removing tiles,timber and waterproofing myself which anyone can do as good those idiots.
12 years latter,no problems.
small leak rotted out 3 mtrs of wall and ran up inside timber frame.
thanks god Gras Toscan i retired now.
find yourself a good tiler that everyone recommends.
you will spend more fighting those guys and they know that .

Jupiter
2066 posts
13 Jul 2017 11:46AM
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Smithy said..

The warranty provided would be specific to the repair done by the contractor and not the whole shower. It would be difficult to prove or disprove if the current problem is related or not until you peel back the layers and even then difficult.

Even if the original contractor who did the work returned I would suggest the current problem would be found to be unrelated and therefore chargeable.

10 years problem free is a pretty good outcome. If the contractors poor workmanship was to cause problems it would have surfaced years ago. Let it go and move on.

IMHO bagging the new company owner based on a previous owners scruples is unfair and unjust.


AS much as I appreciate your opinion, Smithy, I do disagree with what you said about the repair job performed on the whole shower. Let me put it this way, when I asked the knobs to fix my leaky shower, it is their job to locate and fix the problems, any problems within the confine/environment of the shower. If there are problems, and bigger than they though, then I would be the first to be told about it and I will then decide to get it fixed or not.

They checked and found the problem(s), fixed them (supposedly), and charged me accordingly. No issue with that. A job well done is a job which ought to be paid as agreed.

Obviously, I believe if they are to return to fix it, even if they are to honour the warranty, a different "theory" or speculation will be found so that they can wriggle out of the warranty. That I believe is your opinion ?

10 year is not bad according to many posters here. I am incline to agree to a degree. My real estate agent reckons shower leaks are such a big, on-going pain the ass for them too. However, Smithy, as I said earlier, there is an "explicit" 15 year warranty given. If you can't back it up, don't bloody well make the claim, as it is a lie and is deceitful to paying and potential customers.

As for your last statement, I totally disagreed wit it. When you bought a business, it is not a "clean skin" like a brand new business. You bought the existing reputations and hopefully "customer loyalty" based on the past work performance. Otherwise you might as well start a new one. So when you bought into an existing business, and kept the same business name, phones, email, then as far as I am concerned as a paid customer who still has 5 years of warranty outstanding, it is one and the same.

Straya's commercial laws are useless as we all know. Have you noticed how many first home builders got burnt but dodgy builders who either disappeared or not backing up their warranty.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Warranty advice please..." started by Jupiter