captain feather sword strikes again

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
5 Mar 2012 8:16pm
aaarrrh me hearties this time he (Swanny) is firing flour bombs across the bows of Australia's mega rich mining magnates .pfft, pfft, pfft, (he seems a bit more serious than his last 'pop guns at dawn " duel with the banks,no it couldn't have been a duel it was 1 vs 4 what's that ? )
hamburglar
hamburglar
ACT
2174 posts
ACT, 2174 posts
5 Mar 2012 8:39pm
yer yer no wind its enough to make you
question politics and stuff
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
5 Mar 2012 8:49pm
hamburglar said...

yer yer no wind its enough to make you
question politics and stuff


arrrgghhh there;s plenny o wind ,mixed with piss commin out a canbrrraaaaaaaaargggghhh
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
5 Mar 2012 6:51pm
I REALLY don't like Wayne Swan.

It seems to me his objective was to get in first before the anticipated ramp up of the campaign against the mining tax, and then say something about vested interests Who knows I think he is paranoid!

His method of being diversive has me beat... He is showing he has no idea how to lead and how to get people on-board with his ideas.

His attack on Andrew Forrest (in particular) is stupid. I would be intrigued to see who has done more for indigenous employment, Andrew Forrest (and FMG) or Wayne Swan Andrew has a plan to create employment for 50 000 indigenous people. Wayne Swan has a plan to feather his own nest, with the feathers of the nation.

I'd like to here seabreezes own Australian Labor employee on this one, Loggy
hamburglar
hamburglar
ACT
2174 posts
ACT, 2174 posts
5 Mar 2012 10:14pm
Mr float said...

hamburglar said...

yer yer no wind its enough to make you
question politics and stuff


arrrgghhh there;s plenny o wind ,mixed with piss commin out a canbrrraaaaaaaaargggghhh


more like gumboot territory , with the amount of $hit coming out of the place
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
5 Mar 2012 11:58pm
Pugwash said...

I REALLY don't like Wayne Swan.

It seems to me his objective was to get in first before the anticipated ramp up of the campaign against the mining tax, and then say something about vested interests Who knows I think he is paranoid!

His method of being diversive has me beat... He is showing he has no idea how to lead and how to get people on-board with his ideas.

His attack on Andrew Forrest (in particular) is stupid. I would be intrigued to see who has done more for indigenous employment, Andrew Forrest (and FMG) or Wayne Swan Andrew has a plan to create employment for 50 000 indigenous people. Wayne Swan has a plan to feather his own nest, with the feathers of the nation.

I'd like to here seabreezes own Australian Labor employee on this one, Loggy


I'm not really up on this but anyway ...Didn't Swan berate the miners for using their money in a self serving political attempt to further their own profits?: answer, Yes. Well seems like an open and shut case to me.
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
6 Mar 2012 12:02am
I don't bemoan Swanny's point .I just wonder whether his arsenal extends beyond his feathersword.I am a small business person who works hard and has no voice (and spends alot of time complying with government red tape ) and find his point valid yet poorly sold . He is a voice in the government wilderness .Good on you Swanny for speaking out but your voice is a lonely one (from within your own ranks )and the majority of wealth creaters and job creators (small to medium businesses) are ignored by him and his cohorts.(potential allies treated with disdain ) no wonder he is avoice in the wilderness not taken seriously)
BTW Joe hockey i find your words hollow and feel that your mob abandoned "middle Australia' ie small/middle business owners in particul long ago.Joe you and your opponents are out of touch old matey/With all due respect you remind me of those that thought during ww2 that Singapore was a fortress ,you also think that small business is an impenetrable fortresss( which is under seige from the banks and their crippling fees and interest rates) we ave no allie s or voice and you merely pay lip service to us.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
5 Mar 2012 10:12pm
log man said...

I'm not really up on this but anyway ...


Yep



Captain Fairy Sword can't handle people with opinions that differ to his. Can't handle that this is out of his control. The Labs, we'll let you do what we think is right for you... Least they are back in business, and have stopped g(r)azing only at their own navel.

Those that follow, those that comply can have whatever voice they like. What next, will fairy feathers be unhappy that the unions have a voice... oh, hang on...
windaddict
windaddict
VIC
1121 posts
VIC, 1121 posts
6 Mar 2012 9:45am
Quack, quack, quack, quack, quack cocka-doodle doo ...

knigit
knigit
WA
319 posts
WA, 319 posts
6 Mar 2012 10:57am
Had to laugh. This was discussed on Q & A last night.

One suggestion put forward was that this little tantrum was brought about by the fact that in all of the recent discussions over the best choices for labor leadership that his name wasn't mentioned once, and that this was just his way to score a little air time.

Diver
Diver
WA
554 posts
WA, 554 posts
6 Mar 2012 11:47am
Finally the Treasurer and others are finding the gumption to stand up to those that attacked them so vigourously and the targets and their acolytes are none too pleased about it.

With KRudd finally being shown the door, Julia and co. can get on with what they were elected to do - govern.

Malcolm Turnbull your time is coming...
davewilson
davewilson
QLD
4 posts
QLD, 4 posts
6 Mar 2012 2:09pm
Hmm mining is booming, retail is sagging, manufacturing is dying, hmm
When the coal pit empties, and we havent invested in education, manufacturing and small business,

The "Australian living treasures" - who have most of our treasure (and want more" will be sitting fat and pretty in their tax havens.
-and do they all pay fair tax?
There will be less fat for the masses, and more fat for the small number who are already fat.

The gap is widening every day - fact. So if you find yourself in the lower wealth bracket in 5 or 10 years after the boom , will you be able to afford to eg trade your kite for a new one at season start ? or pay for the all important lessons to learn ? or will you have to eg steal someones gear of the beach, Ahh not nice - Love your work Swanny
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
6 Mar 2012 7:52pm
knigit said...

Had to laugh. This was discussed on Q & A last night.

One suggestion put forward was that this little tantrum was brought about by the fact that in all of the recent discussions over the best choices for labor leadership that his name wasn't mentioned once, and that this was just his way to score a little air time.



That was funny wasn't it. Loved Amanda Vanstone. could you imagine being the poor schmuck that was told to go to her office and tell her that the party thinks it's time for her to go......my balls just shriveled up thinking about that. Also interesting to hear the bloke from the Adelaide festival(I forgot his name) talking about the American mega rich and their propensity to invest in great cultural institutions(Rockerfeller etc) as opposed to our mega rich who seem hell bent on changing the Government because they aren't making enough cash. Just thinking about that spirit of generosity, I just got back from a trip to Tassie to go to the new gallery built by David Walsh. Forget owning a soccer team.....Museum of old and new Art(MONA).... THAT'S the way to put back into a community
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
6 Mar 2012 5:54pm
^^^Yes, Vanstone was on fire... again... And to think back, some of the things she used to say about boat arrivals... anyway...

The rest sounds like spin to me. There may be a push for the government to have followed a more consultative process, like Hawke did with the petroleum resource rent-tax. Or perhaps some resistance is due to the proposed MRRT creating an uneven playing field (proved), with greater benefits (less tax paid) for certain other large companies. Perhaps the involvement of Don Argus in the process is seen as some kind of collusion which has biased the result. Perhaps it is just more Labs incompetence and poor judgement that lead us to where we now are. I don't know.

Do you really think Andrew Forrest (in particular) has done nothing? Might be worth reading this, from wikipedia:

Indigenous Australians

During his tenure at Fortescue, Forrest has been recognised for his work on the issue of indigenous disadvantage,[36] using Fortescue Metals Group's Vocational Training and Employment Centre to equip members of the indigenous communities for employment in the mining industry.[37]

After stepping down as Chief Executive Officer of FMG to reflect that he had been spending more than 50% of his time on Indigenous philanthropy,[3] and to hand leadership reins to former head of engineering company Thiess, Nev Power,[38] he became Ambassador of the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation.[39] Encouraged by the philanthropic work of the Rockefeller Group, Warren Buffet, and Melinda and Bill Gates,[40] Forrest founded the Australian Children's Trust with his wife Nicola in 2001.[41] He also started the GenerationOne project, which was founded as a result of his hero and first mentor[42] outside his father, Scotty Black.[15] Forrest obtained assistance from James Packer and Kerry Stokes, who are each donating $2M, along with the support of their respective media stations, Channel 9 and Channel 7.[43] The organisation works with the Australian Children's Trust to help create sustainable solutions on addressing social disadvantage.[37]

With Kevin Rudd (you remember this guy, don't you), Forrest launched the Australian Employment Covenant,[37] which campaigns to have businesses hire indigenous Australians, as they could "add value" to Australian businesses because they were "professional and reliable and wonderful" and that there is no reason for indigenous disparity.[15] He stated that he was dedicating time to the Covenant not because he was a "great guy", but that it was "good business".[44] GenerationOne ran a series of television advertisements privately funded by Forrest, Packer and Stokes.[45] Between 2008 and 2011, he obtained 253 business signatories to his covenant.[44] With then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, Forrest is planning to employ 50,000 Aborigines.[46][47]

Forrest has long opposed welfare dependency for indigenous Australians.[48] As apart of this opposition, he recounted stories of young Aboriginal girls in the Pilbara offering men sex for cigarettes, which caused five indigenous women from the region to collectively lodge a complaint with the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission that the comment was racist and vilified the community.[49] Some indigenous activists have accused Forrest of engaging in questionable methods of land acquisition.[50][51]

Charitable donations

Through his children's charity, as of 2007, Forrest has donated $10M, which of September 2007, received an extra $80M injection to a total $90M.[40]

In 2008, Forrest donated the proceeds from the sale of 5,000 tons of iron ore to the Chinese earthquake relief effort.[52]

Forrest and his wife contributed to Hale School's "150th Anniversary, Gateway to the Future Appeal". In 2009, Forrest opened Hale's new library, named the Forrest Library in recognition of the contributions made by the Forrest family to the school.[53]

Forrest participated in the 2010 and 2011 St Vincent de Paul Society CEO sleepouts, joining the CEOs of Burswood Entertainment Complex, Perth Convention and Exhibition Centre, YACWA, Lycopodium Minerals, among others, to raise $3M.[54]
SomeOtherGuy
SomeOtherGuy
NSW
807 posts
NSW, 807 posts
6 Mar 2012 10:09pm
^^^^

While those charitable donations are admirable pugwash, don't forget that they are also tax deductible. So ultimately the tax payer is also footing part of the bill.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
6 Mar 2012 8:09pm
SomeOtherGuy said...

^^^^

While those charitable donations are admirable pugwash, don't forget that they are also tax deductible. So ultimately the tax payer is also footing part of the bill.


So.... If you do something, you are bad; if you do nothing, you are bad

Are you suggesting that the motivation for his work with the children's charity and indigenous employment is a tax deduction

$90 million, including $80 million of shares.

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?menuid=0&doc=/content/00103838.htm&page=1#P54_3134

What amount is allowed as a gift deduction?

You can deduct the market value of the shares on the day the gift is made, provided the shares:

have a market value of $5,000 or less
were acquired in a listed public company, and
were acquired at least 12 months before making the gift.


And:

Capital gains tax

When you gift shares, you may be subject to capital gains tax (CGT). That means you may be able to claim a deduction for the gift and be liable to pay CGT because of the gift.



log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
6 Mar 2012 11:25pm
Sorry Pugwash, but weren't we talking about "captain feather sword" and his outburst against the self serving political motivations of the miners? I'm sure Twiggy is a really great guy and all that, but I reckon the point was about the influence of money on democracy and the Flacid nature of the Captains captain
BulldogPup
BulldogPup
6657 posts
6657 posts
6 Mar 2012 8:35pm
Miners? yeah great guys .... until the resource runs dry or the shares dip ..... or sell out to foreign interests ... this thread is done
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
6 Mar 2012 8:38pm
We were. Then someone started on the cultural investments of the mega rich, and how Americans are so much better than the Aussies...

log man said...

That was funny wasn't it. Loved Amanda Vanstone. could you imagine being the poor schmuck that was told to go to her office and tell her that the party thinks it's time for her to go......my balls just shriveled up thinking about that. Also interesting to hear the bloke from the Adelaide festival(I forgot his name) talking about the American mega rich and their propensity to invest in great cultural institutions(Rockerfeller etc) as opposed to our mega rich who seem hell bent on changing the Government because they aren't making enough cash. Just thinking about that spirit of generosity, I just got back from a trip to Tassie to go to the new gallery built by David Walsh. Forget owning a soccer team.....Museum of old and new Art(MONA).... THAT'S the way to put back into a community


So, some individuals have influence like the unions. And Is the real problem that the Labs are so incompetent, and have such poor judgement, that they are jealous of the likes of Twiggy, who, after doing a little research, I have found to be far more generous than I expected. Oh, and I have never met the guy, have seen him here or there though... Seems like a nice bloke to me....
Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7282 posts
WA, 7282 posts
6 Mar 2012 9:15pm
SomeOtherGuy said...

^^^^

While those charitable donations are admirable pugwash, don't forget that they are also tax deductible. So ultimately the tax payer is also footing part of the bill.


But the tax payer isn't paying for the services that the charity delivers.



Perhaps I read Forrest's criticism of the mining tax different to the way Wayne Swann reads it.

I thought the initial objections from all sides was that the tax was announced to the media by Rudd, with very little discussion with either industry groups, Rudd's cabinet or anyone else, including the statement directly contravening a whole host of agreements Rudd had with an industry group only a few days before.

It is interesting to note, but not highlighted by Wayne Swann, that when the original announcement was made the iron ore miners in WA were just agreeing a change to royalty agreements that saw them paying an increase on hematite fines somewhere around the 0.5% to somewhere about 7%. None of them publically objected to this raise.

This raise would be greater than the super-profits tax. And Barnett has publically announced he intends to lifts royalties further in the future. Where does Swann see the objection to this ?

Perhaps no objection because consultation has been done and the miners have been convinced that the taxes aid the community (the Royalties for Region's scheme being one good example).

The super-profits tax / MRRT or whatever it is now called is opposed by many on the grounds it is unnecessarily bureaucratically complex, is ill conceived in achieving it objectives, it favours long established operations over new projects (which surely on its own is a dumb thing to do) and had lacked the normal consultation processes.

Perhaps if Swann went talked to industry, demonstrated that the MRRT was about delivering to community and encouraging business, was associated with the removal of inefficient taxes and resulted in a simplier buisness environment then he might get a better response.

If the MRRT comes across as being all about inefficient Victorians wanting a slice of the hard work that West Australians and Queenslanders do for nothing, on top of the GST he steals from them both and the fact that mineral royalties are a state issue not a federal one, and that his government is about redistribution of wealth not about creating the environment for wealth to grow then what does he expect ?


And, in reference to his last outburst against the banks it now seems every other fincance expert, including the reserve bank, says that what the banks did that he objected to so much was a fair and reasonable thing to do.

Maybe after a drug screen the Europeans will want their 'World Championship Chancellor' medal back ?
Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7282 posts
WA, 7282 posts
6 Mar 2012 9:24pm
Pugwash said...

Oh, and I have never met the guy ......



Likewise, but you got to admit he has balls, massive ****ing balls, collassal balls.

In creating FMG from nothing he took on :
the unions (remember Anaconda where he was before FMG ?)
BHP and Rio (monopoly in the Pilbara) and Vale - together monopoly in world wide shipped iron ore
the federal and state governments
the people of the Pilbara (many objected and publically mocked him)
the chinese, and their cash and influence


If Wayne Swann had the same balls as Forrest he might actually take on the unions, industry and the electorate to reform the tax system for the 21st Century (or even the 20th century). But he doesn't. He is too worried about losing the next opinion poll in the News International Press he claims to hate so much.

The difference between them is that Swann worries what Forrest says about him, Forrest probably couldn't give a rat's arse what Swann says about him.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
6 Mar 2012 9:38pm
Carantoc said...

SomeOtherGuy said...

^^^^

While those charitable donations are admirable pugwash, don't forget that they are also tax deductible. So ultimately the tax payer is also footing part of the bill.


But the tax payer isn't paying for the services that the charity delivers.


The tax payer isn't paying for the deduction either, I think the shares exceed the $5000 limit
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
7 Mar 2012 6:59am
I think Swan's comments are in the context of ALP plans to enforce regulation on mass media and popular blog sites that they are "fair and balanced". I have not been following this very much but read the ALP is planning to bring in legislation that will penalise media and bloggers who are not "fair and balanced". This probably means being to critical of ALP governance and policy.

More government bureaucrats in Canberra on $150K a year will make sure Australia's media is not biased. That is productive government for you. More legislation, more regulation, more cost.

Swan's comments are quite reasonable on the face of it, the big miners poison Australia through their wealth. However I'm sure the ALP would not be complaining if the big rich miners were parroting the ALP line.

As it stands the ALP has resources available to get out its message that dwarf those of private interests. If its having trouble getting out their message perhaps they need to look at themselves rather than go around blaming others for stuffing it up.

Edit:

Here is a link as to whats going on:

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/free-press-to-be-sacrificed-for-political-retribution-20120303-1u9vk.html

So its not legislation but the recommendations of a media inquiry. Some people can't handle people who have views differing to theirs to have a voice. Get over it.



log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
7 Mar 2012 11:40am
^^^I reckon that's an unfair assessment of the new media regulations. People have different views.....there, I'm over it. And if you think the media enquiry is about strangling dissenting voices...well I reckon you're barking up the wrong tree.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
7 Mar 2012 8:43am
log man said...

^^^I reckon that's an unfair assessment of the new media regulations. People have different views.....there, I'm over it. And if you think the media enquiry is about strangling dissenting voices...well I reckon you're barking up the wrong tree.


Don't agree log man. I think Moby is on the right track!

I think this is further supported by a ban on note taking in cabinet meetings. The Labs are so paranoid, so worried about leaks of information that is not strictly controlled, that this is their approach.

I have visited China a couple of times in the last few months, and the Labs plan reminds me of something... It is nice reading newspapers with only good news though
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
7 Mar 2012 11:45am
^^^^Oh, just went to the SMH link..... and **** me it's bloody Chris Berg, Ya know Chris Berg from the IPA. Ya know the IPA..... the Cash for comment kings....you'd get a more balanced opinion out of Andrew Bolt. Berg should never have given up his singing career!
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
7 Mar 2012 11:50am
Pugwash said...

log man said...

^^^I reckon that's an unfair assessment of the new media regulations. People have different views.....there, I'm over it. And if you think the media enquiry is about strangling dissenting voices...well I reckon you're barking up the wrong tree.


Don't agree log man. I think Moby is on the right track!

I think this is further supported by a ban on note taking in cabinet meetings. The Labs are so paranoid, so worried about leaks of information that is not strictly controlled, that this is their approach.

I have visited China a couple of times in the last few months, and the Labs plan reminds me of something... It is nice reading newspapers with only good news though

Geez, that was quick, The media report was done by Ray Finkelstein. He's no patsy. Your on the wrong track mate!
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
7 Mar 2012 9:00am
Nah, you're wrong

BTW, I don't agree... see the difference in this expression - wrong and don't agree? The Labs believe people are wrong, so they don't have a right to speak.

I don't care where the opinion pieces come from... I have been concerned about media control since it was announced by The Incompetents...
davewilson
davewilson
QLD
4 posts
QLD, 4 posts
7 Mar 2012 1:33pm
Mainstream Media is definately tuned over to the right, was exposed by a recent study however the media never picked up and reported on it, Crikey - how did the rodent get elected at the last minute for his last term - media scaremonger campaign. Who owns the media ? Gina just bought a hefty amount of shares, Rupert- James what about the phone hacking did they know ? lets give the son a better job cause he was bad in the last one etc - all with significant right wing vested interest, which party does Clive plug all his money into - state and nationally - lets bring in some foreigners to the mines - wake me up . turn on auntie and subscribe to Crikey cause if you listen to the commercial mainstream your mind is washed, bleached and lost. Work choices = no choices - minimum wage take the dictated conditions or bugger off. - done over like a dogs dinner.
No little America - We are Australians. Wake Up.
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
7 Mar 2012 6:20pm
Whenever a government or state starts deciding what can be said or what can't then it's time to start considering whether the state is going in the direction of freedom or control. By state I do mean NSW or Tasmania for example. I mean the state as in the collective institutions that have somehow been given the authority to rule us. It seems to be an authority ultimately delegated from God.

If the state is having trouble getting it's message out or the people generally don't believe the message, the state should not have the ability to regulate and silence those who are critical of the message. Perhaps the message has it's faults. Perhaps the government has its faults.

There would be very few governments or states that could ever be considered to be without fault. There would be very few government policies that would be above any criticism either. Part of job of government is to explain the necessity of a policy. If the government fails to explain why the policy does more good than harm then the policy or laws should be reviewed and abolished.
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply