cruise control nightmare

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decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
16 Dec 2009 11:39pm
So who's going to stop using their cruise control now?????

www.heraldsun.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes


And any ideas on why, the ignition key wouldn't turn off, or gear lever go into neutral???

I guess there's safety reasons for not being able to turn the engine off at speed, no power steering or power brakes. But that would be preferable to being stuck at 100kmh!!! But why not be able to select neutral, it's not as if there's much engine braking in an auto?

Anybody with a modern vehicle tried turning their ignition off or selecting neutral at speed?

Think if I had cruise control with an auto, I'd install a big red emergency off button, killing all power to the engine.
(hmm that wouldn't work with a diesel would it, any suggestions???)
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
17 Dec 2009 12:18am
If there's a bit of load on the drivetrain (like, you're panicking and pressing the brake) then I can imagine that the gear lever would be hard to move. Never tried it myself though

There is an interlock on most autos so you can't go from ACC to OFF while the gearshift is not in the park position (so you don't lock the steering while driving), but I don't think that there's anything to stop it going from IGN to ACC. It's possible that going to ACC didn't stop the engine, if there was a severe fault in the cruise control module (internal short which bridged the backup power to the IGN wire).

So if the cruise control system failed in a really malicious way then I can see how this could occur. I'd guess that if you sped up to past 100, you'd be able to bump the gear lever into N, which would then allow you to slow down and stop, put it in park, turn the key off and get out.

btw diesels have a solenoid that cuts off the fuel to the pump, lose power to the solenoid and you cut off the fuel. However they also can suffer from runaway if the fuel/oil seal is leaking, where the engine runs on the sump oil and there's no way to stop it... and that wouldn't be limited to 100 km/h either!!
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
17 Dec 2009 2:31am
saw in newspaper yesterday, figures show black coloured cars are most likely to be involved in accident, followed by silver colour.

white was safest, they say its to do with background.

my mate has late model LS430 lexus, you name it this car has it.

only trouble, its now been in garage for around 6 weeks, electronics on a 3 or 4 things not working.

some parts had to be sent from japan, others he got from over east.

expecting a bill of around $3500 for this major service.

had service been from lexus, he was told $5000.

he now wishes he bought a aussie luxury car like a caprice.

i drove the lexus 20kms once, it is awesome. stereo system is heaven and fuel for v8 is only 11/12 litres per 100/km.

if your in serious accident, thats when you get real benefit.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15105 posts
WA, 15105 posts
17 Dec 2009 5:44am
Yeah, this seems like a weird story. I wonder if the cruise control actually stuck on or whether it was the throttle itself jammed?

I agree; I don't know why the driver wasn't able to turn the engine off or put it into neutral. An engine revving its head of is far better than not being able to stop from 100km/h.

I don't even know why he didn't change down to 1st. Most cars don't like you doing that, but again its better than shooting along at 100ks.

I have never tried it, but I suspect that brakes in reasonable condition should be able to overcome the engine torque.

As far as I know, all cruise controls have two ways of sensing that the brakes have been applied, and always have an on/off switch. As an example, my falcon has a switch on the brake pedal and a switch on the master cylinder, and they are wired as one normaly open and the other normally closed so that if one is disconnected the cruise will shut down. On the commodore they use the normal brake pedal switch and an additional switch on the brake pedal.

Oh well, I guess there is always the chance that the guy didn't really know much about how they worked and panicced when pressing the brake pedal wouldn't turn it off.

Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
17 Dec 2009 9:53am
gremlins...I tells ya![}:)]
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
17 Dec 2009 8:46am
petermac33 said...

saw in newspaper yesterday, figures show black coloured cars are most likely to be involved in accident, followed by silver colour.

white was safest, they say its to do with background.

my mate has late model LS430 lexus, you name it this car has it.

only trouble, its now been in garage for around 6 weeks, electronics on a 3 or 4 things not working.

some parts had to be sent from japan, others he got from over east.

expecting a bill of around $3500 for this major service.

had service been from lexus, he was told $5000.

he now wishes he bought a aussie luxury car like a caprice.

i drove the lexus 20kms once, it is awesome. stereo system is heaven and fuel for v8 is only 11/12 litres per 100/km.

if your in serious accident, thats when you get real benefit.


Any car over $100 000 is not worth it, as Peter says you will get burned.
Radmac
Radmac
WA
201 posts
WA, 201 posts
17 Dec 2009 8:47am
Tried slipping to Neutral in Cruise Control last night.

As soon as it went to Neutral, it dropped out of Cruise Control every time.


Maybe it is a Ford thing?
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15105 posts
WA, 15105 posts
17 Dec 2009 9:22am
Radmac said...

Tried slipping to Neutral in Cruise Control last night.

As soon as it went to Neutral, it dropped out of Cruise Control every time.


Maybe it is a Ford thing?


Something is fishy here I think. I took the time to listen to the 000 phone call and he says that the key won't move and the transmission 'button' wont work.

I think he pannicked, or there have been multiple failures somehow.

It is interesting to see the comments on the SMH website about it though. Some people think everything runs through a computer in a car. A lot of things do, but many do not. In order to run them through a computer the manufacturers try everthing they can to prevent an accident (read lawsuit) from happening.

Brakes aren't computer controlled at all, unless its through ABS, and even then there is a failsafe mode where the pressure still goes through.

I am not sure about the Explorer, but a lot of automatic cars still have some sort of hydraulic control. I haven't seen any that prevent you pressing the button to move the shift lever, but then again, I haven't seen every car. It is quite probably some cars do this. I also can't understand how it could prevent the key from turning to at least the ACC position while driving.

For what its worth to everyone, even if you lost your vacuum which boosts the power to the brakes, your entire braking force is still there, it just feels like your brake pedal has been replaced with a brick! The vacuum booster makes it light when the engine is running but I can understand why some think there are no brakes when there is no vacuum boost.

I had a mate turn his ignition key completely off while coasting down a hill (despite me telling him not to) and the steering locked as he turned the car, at which time he thought he also had no brakes... They were there, but very heavy when not power assisted.

mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
17 Dec 2009 9:39am
Simple answer, he was inexperienced, and had a brain freeze
For a mechanical person like me, its simple solution.
For a sheltered chap who probably wonders what that thing under the bonnet in front of him was....
Probably take him a month of Sundays to work out how to change a tyre Then again he is probably well skilled in other life area's
I reckon there are a bunch of Ford mechanics, supervisors, Managers and Dealer principals right now, who would love to box his ears[}:)]
pirrad
pirrad
SA
850 posts
SA, 850 posts
17 Dec 2009 1:01pm
Owned one the same model, could only switch the ignition off in neutral, they are known for various trans problems,and from memory there was a recal for cruise control issues [one of many recals]Only replaced set tyres,one door handle and battery in 70 thou k's.sold it in good faith and trans blew,
Bluedog76
Bluedog76
249 posts
249 posts
17 Dec 2009 5:30pm
Well he is a nightmare story of my own, not with cruise control but did involve the computer mangement system in the car to mostly the right things.....I just got it back today after about 4 months and I have to vent..............sorry..

A few months ago now my wife (no blame but do need a name) decided to watch a game of soccer with my son while waiting for me to fly into Mackay. She parked the car but didn't realise there was a bog hole covered in water and got a nissan pathfinder bogged so that it need to be towed out. In the process, a sump type guard got ripped down a bit so that it was hanging down.

No problems, off the car went fine and we drove around for about three weeks. On the day it was booked in for a service (part of which was to get the guard fixed up) she backed out of the driveway and off she went. The engine check light came on for which the manual says take it to the dealer but you can keep driving. Then on the highway the car shuts itself down. The RACQ come out and look over it, notice some fluid on the inside of a wheel and mention that there may be an oil leak but you need to plug the car into a computer to find out what's wrong. He gets it going and say you are right to go.

She drives another 20km down the highway and into town where at a set of lights, the car shuts down again. This time the steering wheel locks up, the pedels don't move, the transmission won't move and the car can't be moved at a set of lights in the middle of town at 8 in the morning.

The racq come out, turn the key to on, press the brake, press the auto shift-lock key and get the car at least moving to get it onto the trailer....rather than sitting at the busiest intersection in town holding up traffic.

They take the car to nissan who ring me up later that day saying the car overheated and we need $2k to look at it and see what is wrong (engine out and heads off). I go over to Nissan and tell them what happened and they show me the 2cm hole in the radiator where the sump gard went through the radiator when my wife backed out of the driveway that day - I could see the fuild residue on the road and marks on the gutter (however this was something we had down every day for the last few weeks).

Anyway, I said to the nissan guys as the car shut itself down, why don't we put a new radiator in and see what happens before pulling the enfine out the look at the heads, after all the computer managemet system did shut the car down.....albiet twice.

So we do that and $1300 later the car is running perfectly. About a month later it start to miss when cold and then run fine....a week later the check light comes on again. I take it to a differnt place (as nissan are about $110/hr labour) who determine there is water in cyclinder number 4 via the computer showing a misfire fault on that cyclinder and poking a camera in the firing chamber.

Anyway (sorry this is long), they take the engine out and get the heads off and with some poking around find a minute dent in the head (slight warp). They then skim the head bolt down with blue silicone stuff and pressure test. All ok except when they pull the head off again there are micro micro tiny micro more amounts of silicone around cylinder number 4 on the block than everywhere else...so the block is warped as well - I went in myself to have a look at this.

Now it is second hand engine time as a rebuild costs just as much and engines these days aren't made to be taken apart and put back together, particularly after 107,000kms (2005 model by the way).

So after some time, a second hand engine goes in with only 25,000km on it ($7k for engine + $3.5K for old engine out, play around and test + new engine in), fantastic except when I pick the car up it fells like it is idling just a little rough, 15mins later, I go to accelerate and the check and 4wd warning light comes on and it goes into "limp home mode". The computer senses a problem and to protect the car disconects the electronic throttle control from the accelerator and simply speeds up to a max 20km/hr (apparently running on only 3 cyclinders) - you can break but put the accelerator to the floor and nothing. Take you foot off both and the car smoothly coasts up to 20km/hr.

So...I limp back to the mechanics (5 past 5 on Friday so couldn't believe they were there). They plug the computer in and it comes up with an electronic throttle control fault and that this little $3k worth of gear needs replacing......separate to the engine, origonal part that was working fine. So after getting the car back with the codes erased but the problem not fixed (my decision) I take it to the smash repairs to get the other damage my wife inflicted on the car fixed and then two weeks later I take it to nissan making sure that the problem is there when I get there - a bit of driving around and it happens on the way.

After around 6 hours the car is fixed and goes like a rocket. They cleaned out excess carbon build up in the throttle body and air intake (from the misfiring) which was mechanically stopping it from working properly.

If anyone is intersted I have some great gear in the buy and sell section......a funds going towards the 12K+ just spent on the car.

Lessons:
1. Don't drive into bog holes
2. Repair damage immediately
3. Stop car when engine check light comes on and look at temp guage
4. Get RACQ to check oil and water
5. Be ready for expensive repairs when something serious happens to a newish car...they are not made to have something go wrong.




cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
17 Dec 2009 6:51pm
my cruise control on an xr8 just sold went odd once driving past a telstra sensis vehicle (i think it was or might have been google) on the open road back from albany to esperance... they where sitting on approx 70 ks and i went past just doing 114 with the cruise control and next minute it speeds up to 140 k's , the sensis car had an antenna on the drivers side like a gps marker... it did effect the cruise control though.... was rather odd at the time... didn't go nuts like this guys just took a few seconds for me to register the car had speed up by itself.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
17 Dec 2009 11:05pm
petermac33 said...

saw in newspaper yesterday, figures show black coloured cars are most likely to be involved in accident, followed by silver colour.

white was safest, they say its to do with background.

my mate has late model LS430 lexus, you name it this car has it.

only trouble, its now been in garage for around 6 weeks, electronics on a 3 or 4 things not working.

some parts had to be sent from japan, others he got from over east.

expecting a bill of around $3500 for this major service.

had service been from lexus, he was told $5000.

he now wishes he bought a aussie luxury car like a caprice.

i drove the lexus 20kms once, it is awesome. stereo system is heaven and fuel for v8 is only 11/12 litres per 100/km.

if your in serious accident, thats when you get real benefit.


My ($14,000 in 2003) 1992 Lexus SC400/Toyotasoarus is still going (although a/c compressor has just packed it i'll admit).

I've replaced ... some tyres, suspension bushes ...nothing really. All electronics still work. 220,000Km. interior plastics aren't the best, but could be fixed for not much, i think.

I get 9L/100K - 4l V8. Yes really. Confirmed driving 200k to remote work 2x week.

Best bit is it is fully galvanised! There's a huge deposit of salt sitting on the bonnet right now from a wet board on the roof. It's been like that every weekend for years now




Oh yeah, did he try at least shifting down a gear?
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
17 Dec 2009 8:17pm
While on systems that should be failsafe but aren't . The break before make high beam to low beam system on commodores. Dipped the lights for an oncoming car on a dark moonless night - nothing no lights at all, scary, all you can do is hit the brakes and hope for the best..

A sticky low beam relay, an $8 part, if your commodore's done a few hundred thousand kms replace it as a preventive measure.

And forgot to log out - Ian K
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15105 posts
WA, 15105 posts
17 Dec 2009 8:22pm
evlPanda said...

petermac33 said...

saw in newspaper yesterday, figures show black coloured cars are most likely to be involved in accident, followed by silver colour.

white was safest, they say its to do with background.

my mate has late model LS430 lexus, you name it this car has it.

only trouble, its now been in garage for around 6 weeks, electronics on a 3 or 4 things not working.

some parts had to be sent from japan, others he got from over east.

expecting a bill of around $3500 for this major service.

had service been from lexus, he was told $5000.

he now wishes he bought a aussie luxury car like a caprice.

i drove the lexus 20kms once, it is awesome. stereo system is heaven and fuel for v8 is only 11/12 litres per 100/km.

if your in serious accident, thats when you get real benefit.


My ($14,000 in 2003) 1992 Lexus SC400/Toyotasoarus is still going (although a/c compressor has just packed it i'll admit).

I've replaced ... some tyres, suspension bushes ...nothing really. All electronics still work. 220,000Km. interior plastics aren't the best, but could be fixed for not much, i think.

I get 9L/100K - 4l V8. Yes really. Confirmed driving 200k to remote work 2x week.

Best bit is it is fully galvanised! There's a huge deposit of salt sitting on the bonnet right now from a wet board on the roof. It's been like that every weekend for years now




Oh yeah, did he try at least shifting down a gear?


It's a Camry.
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