not sure about the value for money, but it is a valid idea, together with a train link to Tullamarine, trouble is there are lots of companies that make lots of money that are stronger in lobbying Governments, to make it a reality.

Yes, and when jet fuel starts to run out we will get one.

Reckon before any Government launches into such a costly exercise, maybe they would take a long hard look at the States of SA and WA where the Government is electing to "close" down rail in the regional area's because its too expensive to maintain.
Easier to fob it off onto major road networks via heavy haulage, so you and everyone else, wont get too excited when we get hit with a multi million dollar road repair bill in say 10-12 years time, instead of the expected 20-30 year road life. Makes the current mob in power in any State look real flash saving all that tax dollars.

If its worth doing, let a private company do it. Let a private company take the risk. If the risk is too high it won't be done. Why should taxpayer money be spent on something that will benefit some at the expense of others?

If they built a very fast train link from Melbourne to Sydney at public expense for example, how would that benefit a taxpayer out at Dubbo or down at Hobart? The airlines will suffer. The truck drivers will suffer. Greyhound Bus will suffer.

If any government assistance is needed then the best way to do it would be to say to any private company willing to do it they would get a tax holiday on any profit they make from the enterprise for 20 years or more.

25,000 camels standing end to end should do it

choco said...

25,000 camels standing end to end should do it

Why not make it a tourist attraction - cable tram!?

cisco said...

I think we should build the Darwin to Melbourne high speed mag lev goods rail line through the heartlands first.

It will reduce the turnaround time of cargo ships coming to Australia from six weeks to six days.

sounds good Cisco

Mark _australia said...

Train from Melb to Syd?

As long as it doesn't go back again....

Ok but what about speed week, can it get me to speed week

laff77 said...

cisco said...

I think we should build the Darwin to Melbourne high speed mag lev goods rail line through the heartlands first.

It will reduce the turnaround time of cargo ships coming to Australia from six weeks to six days.

Care to back that up with some facts?

Have you seen the port infrastructure in Darwin and compared to the likes of a Melbourne or Sydney container terminal? We won't even touch on general cargo or motor vehicle handling and storage facilities.

Since when did it take six weeks to sail from Darwin or even Singapore for that matter to Melbourne?

I have read a report on it but sorry can't give you a reference to it.

Yes of course a new container terminal in Darwin has to be part of it. Darwin's proximity to Indonesia and the huge port there (actually two very close together but regarded as one) is one of the defining factors.

No it does not take six weeks to sail from Darwin or Singapore to Melbourne. A week would probably do it.

What takes time is negotiating the Great Barrier Reef, visiting Newcastle or Sydney on the way through, negotiating the Pinch Gut at Port Phillip Bay and having to anchor off the roads while waiting their turn to enter and dock at different ports.

The Darwin to Melbourne through the Heartlands Rail Line is based on it being an arterial route with collection and distribution points along the way and the whole thing would be co-ordinated by a sophisticated supply, distribution and tracking hardware and software system.

It is not pie in the sky stuff. What is pie in the sky is getting a government with enough political will to do it. It has been talked about but they want private enterprise to build it. That wont happen.

It would be a far greater Nation Building Project than the NBN and the NBN would have to be attached to it figureatively speaking.

The benefits of it are huge and include reducing the damage risk to the G. B. Reef, reducing pollution from ship's ballast water that has killed Port Phillip Bay, removeing heavy transport trucks from interstate highways and placeing them on local distribution routes and revitalising the outback rural towns.

Google it up and see what you get. Back to you laff77.

stamp said...

grumplestiltskin said...

mineral1 said...

Reckon before any Government launches into such a costly exercise, maybe they would take a long hard look at the States of SA and WA where the Government is electing to "close" down rail in the regional area's because its too expensive to maintain.

I'm not disputing you Mineral, just a general question.

How can maintaining rail be more expensive than maintaining roads?
Surely you dont get constant potholes etc. in rail?

i do a fait bit of contract work for the railways doing repair work. rail needs constant maintenance; the ballast shifts and has to be retamped, sleepers deteriorate, points and crossing wear down and have to be replaced, train drivers spin the wheels and damage the head of the rail, temperature changes can cause buckling, trains derail (more often than you'd think) etc etc

the wastage and inefficiency is also staggering, its still run like a public company. 10 blokes stand around complaining about how hard they have to work while only one bloke actually does any work.

Yeah ,but stamp what about road maintainance? If we could get some of the heavy trucks off the highways and onto the tracks?

If it was a roll on roll off with a stop in Canberra (so I can go mtb'ing) and a continuation to Brissy (so I can go surfing) I'd back it.

japie said...

Yes, and when jet fuel starts to run out we will get one.

Funny thing that! Jet fuel actually comes from 2 waste products. One of the products is extremely nasty, add in product 2 in a certain way, and hey presto, you have premium jet fuel! In dollar terms it is kind of like 1+1=10! Bingo.

It has a complex range of different Hydrocarbons though... Hat's off to the Chemical Engineer's who worked it out though. Jet Fuel Refining is semi complex, and the wrong ratio's of 1+2 can weaken steel pipelines within hours... as in eat out steel.

This is Product 1 (HFA - nastier than you can care to imagine, but controllable, and easily contained in normal circumstances, when everything goes to plan), and Product 2 is isobutane which is essentially propylene and butylene. Product 1 is the catalyst!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid (HFA)

Simondo said...

japie said...

Yes, and when jet fuel starts to run out we will get one.

Funny thing that! Jet fuel actually comes from 2 waste products. One of the products is extremely nasty, add in product 2 in a certain way, and hey presto, you have premium jet fuel! In dollar terms it is kind of like 1+1=10! Bingo.

It has a complex range of different Hydrocarbons though... Hat's off to the Chemical Engineer's who worked it out though. Jet Fuel Refining is semi complex, and the wrong ratio's of 1+2 can weaken steel pipelines within hours... as in eat out steel.

This is Product 1 (HFA - nastier than you can care to imagine, but controllable, and easily contained in normal circumstances, when everything goes to plan), and Product 2 is isobutane which is essentially propylene and butylene. Product 1 is the catalyst!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid (HFA)

I thought it was Kerosene? We have a kero heater and a mate who works at the airport said she could get us Avgas which would work in the heater.

Sounds like we should not be using the concoction you are describing, may end up in orbit!

japie said...


I thought it was Kerosene? We have a kero heater and a mate who works at the airport said she could get us Avgas which would work in the heater.

Sounds like we should not be using the concoction you are describing, may end up in orbit!

Jet fuel or Avgas? I.e. one for jets and one for propeller driven planes?

That we have reached the stage of the harebrained ideas, let me put in my two cents worth.

As far as the inland rail route goes, how would you make enough capacity on it to deal with the freight task of Southeast Australia? How many containers can you put on a train? Maybe 50. How many containers go through each container terminal in Sydney and Melbourne and Adelaide and Brisbane every day? I'd guess that it would be well over a thousand. So that's a minimum of 20 trains every day. Then you have to add in all the agricultural produce that wants to go north. Grain cars are different to flatbed container cars, and once they've gone north, they have to turn around and come back south. And then there are livestock cars, and I would guess refrigerated tuna cars from South Australia and so on. I think you end up with a train line that is every bit as congested as any suburban line, but without the option of putting in buses every time you want to have a bit of maintenance, or when floods wash the rails away.

On the plus side though, why do we have to have a three-hour trip to Melbourne or Brisbane from Sydney. In Queensland, you've got the tilt train which runs up to Cairns in about 24 hours. You can correct me if I am wrong, but I have the ideas that there was no major realignment of tracks involved, just an improvement of the rolling stock.

Whenever I see photos of very fast trains operating overseas, they seem to be running along a viaduct. So why can't we take the existing alignment of the major railways, and add in an extra set or two of tracks above them on pylons, just like the monorail in Sydney, and then engineer a tilt train to run at maybe 200 or so so that the trip gets down to half the driving time. Surely that would be good enough for the cheaper end of the transport market, especially if you end up close to the centre of the city rather than way out in the suburbs.

And while I have your attention, I really can't see why the north west and southwest rail links in Sydney have to be made as rail links. Why can't you just hang a monorail over the top of the existing main roads, but have it run at a decent speed? Sure, you might have to get off the monorail and on to a train as part of a long journey, but lots of commuters already marry bus and train trips.